Honestly Just Tired

[just_tired]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a bit about how I've been feeling.

 

I've been applying to ubc as an in-province applicant for the past 3 years now, straight regrets each time. I have written the MCAT 3 times, from a 507 the first time I applied, to an ineligible 512 (123 cars) last year, to a 517 this past cycle. I have a 90+% average, and my TFR has been ~58 (1st time) to ~54, to ~62 this year (using inspect element).

The first year I applied 3 years ago, I knew I bombed the interview. I was young, I didn't know what to expect, and I didn't really have any life experiences at that point. Over these past two years, I've just been living my life, doing things I love to do, hobbies, pursuing work and research outside of school I enjoy, hoping that it will help me in all areas, including helping me become a more suitable candidate for medicine.

The second cycle, I got another below average interview score. Very surprising, because I got good feedback from more than half the interviewers. Even though it was unbelievably disappointing, it was okay. I was just going to keep applying, and continue working on becoming a stronger applicant. I knew my ineligible mcat wasn't helping my case, so I redid the MCAT and was fortunate to get a very good score this time around.

This past year, I have been an active member of toastmasters and another speaking course to improve my speaking, thinking that it would help me as a speaker, and at the interview too. One of the best decisions I've honestly made.

I really thought this would be the year. The interview wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means. I felt confident, relaxed, not nervous at all. I felt like I could relate a personal story to many of the questions. When d-day came along on the 13th, I really didn't expect another rejection. Another below average interview, another disappointment. I don't really know how to improve at this point, but I will keep trying.

 

I felt like I had to get this off my chest. It's been a very frustrating 3 application cycles, but I'll keep applying. I know there are so many other applicants who are also feeling this same frustration, but if you're reading this, don't give up. I know several people who were accepted this year after 3 or 4 application cycles and I'm so proud of them. We'll all get there eventually if we want it, whether it's medicine or another career path. Just continue to work hard, but don't forget to enjoy life. <3

[Bambi]

2 hours ago, just_tired said:

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a bit about how I've been feeling.

 

I've been applying to ubc as an in-province applicant for the past 3 years now, straight regrets each time. I have written the MCAT 3 times, from a 507 the first time I applied, to an ineligible 512 (123 cars) last year, to a 517 this past cycle. I have a 90+% average, and my TFR has been ~58 (1st time) to ~54, to ~62 this year (using inspect element).

The first year I applied 3 years ago, I knew I bombed the interview. I was young, I didn't know what to expect, and I didn't really have any life experiences at that point. Over these past two years, I've just been living my life, doing things I love to do, hobbies, pursuing work and research outside of school I enjoy, hoping that it will help me in all areas, including helping me become a more suitable candidate for medicine.

The second cycle, I got another below average interview score. Very surprising, because I got good feedback from more than half the interviewers. Even though it was unbelievably disappointing, it was okay. I was just going to keep applying, and continue working on becoming a stronger applicant. I knew my ineligible mcat wasn't helping my case, so I redid the MCAT and was fortunate to get a very good score this time around.

This past year, I have been an active member of toastmasters and another speaking course to improve my speaking, thinking that it would help me as a speaker, and at the interview too. One of the best decisions I've honestly made.

I really thought this would be the year. The interview wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means. I felt confident, relaxed, not nervous at all. I felt like I could relate a personal story to many of the questions. When d-day came along on the 13th, I really didn't expect another rejection. Another below average interview, another disappointment. I don't really know how to improve at this point, but I will keep trying.

 

I felt like I had to get this off my chest. It's been a very frustrating 3 application cycles, but I'll keep applying. I know there are so many other applicants who are also feeling this same frustration, but if you're reading this, don't give up. I know several people who were accepted this year after 3 or 4 application cycles and I'm so proud of them. We'll all get there eventually if we want it, whether it's medicine or another career path. Just continue to work hard, but don't forget to enjoy life. <3

Persistence is essential in this marathon and lottery to gain acceptance. Do not be discouraged. The fact that you have achieved interviews validates the fact that you are an applicant worthy of admittance! Hang in there, do not take it personally, stay motivated, do something you will enjoy while you continue to apply that will make you an even better applicant. Over a lifetime, whether you practice medicine 5 years more or less is not important, but to get there you need strong motivation, persistence and yes, some luck! Others here have applied for up to 8 cycles before acceptance. Stay strong!

[frenchpress]

8 hours ago, just_tired said:

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a bit about how I've been feeling.

 

I've been applying to ubc as an in-province applicant for the past 3 years now, straight regrets each time. I have written the MCAT 3 times, from a 507 the first time I applied, to an ineligible 512 (123 cars) last year, to a 517 this past cycle. I have a 90+% average, and my TFR has been ~58 (1st time) to ~54, to ~62 this year (using inspect element).

The first year I applied 3 years ago, I knew I bombed the interview. I was young, I didn't know what to expect, and I didn't really have any life experiences at that point. Over these past two years, I've just been living my life, doing things I love to do, hobbies, pursuing work and research outside of school I enjoy, hoping that it will help me in all areas, including helping me become a more suitable candidate for medicine.

The second cycle, I got another below average interview score. Very surprising, because I got good feedback from more than half the interviewers. Even though it was unbelievably disappointing, it was okay. I was just going to keep applying, and continue working on becoming a stronger applicant. I knew my ineligible mcat wasn't helping my case, so I redid the MCAT and was fortunate to get a very good score this time around.

This past year, I have been an active member of toastmasters and another speaking course to improve my speaking, thinking that it would help me as a speaker, and at the interview too. One of the best decisions I've honestly made.

I really thought this would be the year. The interview wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means. I felt confident, relaxed, not nervous at all. I felt like I could relate a personal story to many of the questions. When d-day came along on the 13th, I really didn't expect another rejection. Another below average interview, another disappointment. I don't really know how to improve at this point, but I will keep trying.

 

I felt like I had to get this off my chest. It's been a very frustrating 3 application cycles, but I'll keep applying. I know there are so many other applicants who are also feeling this same frustration, but if you're reading this, don't give up. I know several people who were accepted this year after 3 or 4 application cycles and I'm so proud of them. We'll all get there eventually if we want it, whether it's medicine or another career path. Just continue to work hard, but don't forget to enjoy life. <3

It sounds like you're on the right track with your MCAT, and NAQ.  You didn't mention your GPA, but assuming that's OK, then your issue may be your interview. If you're consistently getting below average interviews even with the effort you're putting into improving your speaking and presentation, then you may want to look at the content of your responses. What sort of resources have you used to prepare and inform yourself on things like ethics, BC relevant health issues, etc?

[theevilsloth]

12 hours ago, just_tired said:

The interview wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means. I felt confident, relaxed, not nervous at all. I felt like I could relate a personal story to many of the questions. When d-day came along on the 13th, I really didn't expect another rejection. Another below average interview, another disappointment. I don't really know how to improve at this point, but I will keep trying.

Hey, I had a very similar experience to yours this cycle, and I know how bewildering the process can be. Like you, I practiced for a long time and feel like I improved my interview performance greatly this cycle, but the results didn't reflect that. I don't have any practical advice for you (as I'm in the same situation) but if you need someone to talk to feel free to DM me. 

[dontgivemehopeplz]

11 hours ago, just_tired said:

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a bit about how I've been feeling.

 

I've been applying to ubc as an in-province applicant for the past 3 years now, straight regrets each time. I have written the MCAT 3 times, from a 507 the first time I applied, to an ineligible 512 (123 cars) last year, to a 517 this past cycle. I have a 90+% average, and my TFR has been ~58 (1st time) to ~54, to ~62 this year (using inspect element).

The first year I applied 3 years ago, I knew I bombed the interview. I was young, I didn't know what to expect, and I didn't really have any life experiences at that point. Over these past two years, I've just been living my life, doing things I love to do, hobbies, pursuing work and research outside of school I enjoy, hoping that it will help me in all areas, including helping me become a more suitable candidate for medicine.

The second cycle, I got another below average interview score. Very surprising, because I got good feedback from more than half the interviewers. Even though it was unbelievably disappointing, it was okay. I was just going to keep applying, and continue working on becoming a stronger applicant. I knew my ineligible mcat wasn't helping my case, so I redid the MCAT and was fortunate to get a very good score this time around.

This past year, I have been an active member of toastmasters and another speaking course to improve my speaking, thinking that it would help me as a speaker, and at the interview too. One of the best decisions I've honestly made.

I really thought this would be the year. The interview wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means. I felt confident, relaxed, not nervous at all. I felt like I could relate a personal story to many of the questions. When d-day came along on the 13th, I really didn't expect another rejection. Another below average interview, another disappointment. I don't really know how to improve at this point, but I will keep trying.

 

I felt like I had to get this off my chest. It's been a very frustrating 3 application cycles, but I'll keep applying. I know there are so many other applicants who are also feeling this same frustration, but if you're reading this, don't give up. I know several people who were accepted this year after 3 or 4 application cycles and I'm so proud of them. We'll all get there eventually if we want it, whether it's medicine or another career path. Just continue to work hard, but don't forget to enjoy life. <3

Don't beat yourself up too much, maybe you just a bit unlucky (there is no perfect system), if some motherfucker right before you is a god in MMI then you probably get a shitty score for every single station cuz that guy is always the one that talk to your interviewer right before you, and you'll likely be compared to that guy. It's not always about how good you are or how much you have prepared. I am sure every single person who has made to the interview is capable of going through med school and being a great doctor. But unless you at god tier, you'll definitely need some luck to get in.

[acacna]

17 minutes ago, dontgivemehopeplz said:

Don't beat yourself up too much, maybe you just a bit unlucky (there is no perfect system), if some motherfucker right before you is a god in MMI then you probably get a shitty score for every single station cuz that guy is always the one that talk to your interviewer right before you, and you'll likely be compared to that guy. It's not always about how good you are or how much you have prepared. I am sure every single person who has made to the interview is capable of going through med school and being a great doctor. But unless you at god tier, you'll definitely need some luck to get in.

Yep, the number of god tier applicants is too high and the number of spots is too low. 

[CrisprRaps]

Though everyone's experience is different (interview questions, interviewers, etc.), I found the interview was more of a conversation over coffee than a structured answer with lots of pauses for the interviewer to ask questions or probe your argument. 

I found that a lot of the interview questions related to real world issues. Sometimes I'd relate it to ethical problems. I read Ethics in Health Care: A Canadian Focus by  Eike-Henner Kluge prior. It's an easy read and gives you a broad scope into biomedical ethics. You could try looking at some podcasts to expand your perspective.

My favourite ones are all CBC ones: Frontburner, The Dose, Other People's Problems, White Coat Black Art, Party Lines, Cost of Living, and Death Sex and Money. 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

[Anon-e-mous]

In the same boat also. Practiced a lot with med students, doctors and other applicants this year and got below average. Also went overboard reading ethics and other news. Felt better prepared compared to other interviews but results didn't reflect that.

We got this guys. Another year of hard work and a bit of luck and we can crack the interview! Maybe we should start an interview support group.

[Dr. Tenma]

As someone who's been applying for 5 years and been getting straight rejected over and over and over with below average interview scores (wait-listed this time) what I can tell you is this:

Judging by the people that do get in the first or second time (From the hundreds of people I've practiced with over the past 5 years) I think they're looking for a certain personality archetype for what a "doctor" should be (Super Extroverted, dominant and persuasive). Many people don't fit this, and for them it will be an uphill battle no matter how good of a doctor they could have been. If you're shy or quiet, you're going to have a bad time and it doesn't mean you'd be a worse doctor. I know so many doctors that graduated from other countries (and Canada) that do not fit this archetype and they're all loved by their patients and staff at the hospital/clinics they work. They have high ratings and reviews everywhere you look. But basically If you show any nervousness at all, you're going to have a bad time. The MMI is extremely subjective. As soon as there is a gender or race involved or any face to face interaction, all objectivity goes out the window. It should just be a written response interview where they only see ID numbers (no face or name), and face to face interview just so they can filter red flags (if you show up as a clown or Mr. Bean or something that can reflect poorly on your maturity etc)

You sound exactly like me last year. I quit my job and practiced 3-4 months straight, everyday, for 8 hours a day. 2-6PM with one person, 6PM to 10PM with someone else. I practiced with residents, doctors, professors, teachers, you name it. I studied ethics, I read news articles on current social and health issues in Canada and the world, I watched documentaries. I went to every session at UBC, I created my own little MMI practice group too in addition to everything else. all in all I probably practiced 200-500 hours. I pretty much exhausted all options. I considered anything but a below average interview as progress, it would show that effort pays off. I just wanted SOME progress from the below average interview I kept getting. I didn't even dare to dream they'd actually accept me. The interview went well, maybe a couple of stations could've been better but that's to be expected. It was MUCH better the previous year, or so I felt. When I got below average again, I felt so cheated. I told myself I'd never apply again and immediately started to apply for a Second Degree in CS and that's what I'm doing now. It's a calculated risk to pursue medicine. You gotta carefully consider the risk/reward ratio of applying year after year. This is my last year, it no longer makes sense to continue even though it is my dream to be a doctor. I think I have demonstrated some perseverance. I can't really apply anymore, because I don't have the time. Accelerated Second Degree in CS is brutal. My GPA is going to drop as well. I know 20 years from now I'll look back and understand that I gave it my all. I did consider going overseas, but the cost, and the risk/reward ratio made absolutely no sense to me personally.

No regrets.

And I think this is the point you want to get to before you move on. Do you feel like you've exhausted all options? That you don't have much more room for improving? Think about yourself decades from now. What are you going to think? That you gave it your all and it didn't work out, or that you quit too early and you might have gotten in if you just improved X. Perseverance is commendable but it can be damaging to your mental health watching everyone else move forward with their lives, your sense of self worth, your relationship with your family. If I kept going like this for another few years, I think I would seriously regret not moving on earlier later down the road. When I could have had a career in something else instead of being stuck in purgatory.

Think about what you have to do now, think about not living with regrets.

 

 

 

[tallshirts]

I think that a lot of the advice in here is great, but also keep in mind that I suspect most med schools are looking for people that are real people, with real experiences and real interests. Why do you want to be a doctor? What else in your life are you passionate about? What will happen when you face burnout in your career, especially if you have poured all of your energy into it? How will you be able to recharge in a profession that is rife with burnout? How will you relate to others?

While I think it is important to practice interviewing skills, keep in mind that is just one skill. You still need to go out and do the things that make you you. On the marathon analogy, I think it's important to actually train and get in good shape. It's not enough to practice putting on your shoes and walk to the pace line. You need strength in your heart and in your feet to keep you going. 

[Fast_Layne]

On 6/2/2020 at 12:41 AM, Aryanenzo said:

As someone who's been applying for 5 years and been getting straight rejected over and over and over with below average interview scores (wait-listed this time) what I can tell you is this:

Judging by the people that do get in the first or second time (From the hundreds of people I've practiced with over the past 5 years) I think they're looking for a certain personality archetype for what a "doctor" should be (Super Extroverted, dominant and persuasive). Many people don't fit this, and for them it will be an uphill battle no matter how good of a doctor they could have been. If you're shy or quiet, you're going to have a bad time and it doesn't mean you'd be a worse doctor. I know so many doctors that graduated from other countries (and Canada) that do not fit this archetype and they're all loved by their patients and staff at the hospital/clinics they work. They have high ratings and reviews everywhere you look. But basically If you show any nervousness at all, you're going to have a bad time. The MMI is extremely subjective. As soon as there is a gender or race involved or any face to face interaction, all objectivity goes out the window. It should just be a written response interview where they only see ID numbers (no face or name), and face to face interview just so they can filter red flags (if you show up as a clown or Mr. Bean or something that can reflect poorly on your maturity etc)

You sound exactly like me last year. I quit my job and practiced 3-4 months straight, everyday, for 8 hours a day. 2-6PM with one person, 6PM to 10PM with someone else. I practiced with residents, doctors, professors, teachers, you name it. I studied ethics, I read news articles on current social and health issues in Canada and the world, I watched documentaries. I went to every session at UBC, I created my own little MMI practice group too in addition to everything else. all in all I probably practiced 200-500 hours. I pretty much exhausted all options. I considered anything but a below average interview as progress, it would show that effort pays off. I just wanted SOME progress from the below average interview I kept getting. I didn't even dare to dream they'd actually accept me. The interview went well, maybe a couple of stations could've been better but that's to be expected. It was MUCH better the previous year, or so I felt. When I got below average again, I felt so cheated. I told myself I'd never apply again and immediately started to apply for a Second Degree in CS and that's what I'm doing now. It's a calculated risk to pursue medicine. You gotta carefully consider the risk/reward ratio of applying year after year. This is my last year, it no longer makes sense to continue even though it is my dream to be a doctor. I think I have demonstrated some perseverance. I can't really apply anymore, because I don't have the time. Accelerated Second Degree in CS is brutal. My GPA is going to drop as well. I know 20 years from now I'll look back and understand that I gave it my all. I did consider going overseas, but the cost, and the risk/reward ratio made absolutely no sense to me personally.

No regrets.

And I think this is the point you want to get to before you move on. Do you feel like you've exhausted all options? That you don't have much more room for improving? Think about yourself decades from now. What are you going to think? That you gave it your all and it didn't work out, or that you quit too early and you might have gotten in if you just improved X. Perseverance is commendable but it can be damaging to your mental health watching everyone else move forward with their lives, your sense of self worth, your relationship with your family. If I kept going like this for another few years, I think I would seriously regret not moving on earlier later down the road. When I could have had a career in something else instead of being stuck in purgatory.

Think about what you have to do now, think about not living with regrets.

 

 

 

Ughh I really hope you get in this year!! It sucks to not be able to pursue a dream despite giving it your absolute all, which I'm sure you've done. Would you consider applying again after spending a few years in a career? There are tons of non-trad applicants who have full-time jobs but are just looking for a change in career.

As well, regarding your extrovert archetype, I totally thought that was what they were looking for too in the interviews. But the reality is, I practiced with quite a few people this year that really fit that type: Very outspoken, super confident in their answers, etc. However, I can't think of a single person from that "type" that got in this year. But I did, even though I'm super shy and quiet. Did I have to pump it up a little for the MMIs? Yeah for sure, I didn't act all meek around them...but I wasn't super bubbly either. 

At the end of the day, I think the MMIs are total blackbox. It's really hard to figure out what they're looking for. If I had to guess, I think the content of your answers matters more than your personality. If you ever decide to apply again, perhaps practice with people who have knowledge of the MMI system: Maybe they were MMI evaluators previously, or they used to work with Med admissions, etc.

Good luck, and I'm really hoping you get off the waitlist!!

[HongHongHong]

@Aryanenzo I've got to agree with @Giant_Anteaters on this one. After working with a number of FLEX students and knowing people who have gotten in this year, I think "Super extroverted, dominant, persuasive" doesn't paint  a full or accurate picture of what adcoms is looking for. I think they're looking for personality types that include the following:

• Confident (if you had a doctor who looked really uncertain when prescribing a patient a drug, that patient themselves would lose confidence and trust in what they were being offered)
• Listening & openness to changing stance (a doctor who dominates and overrules their patient's wishes is shitty all around. Often times patients know if something is, say, caused by anxiety or caused by something very real)
• Persuasiveness & reasoning (yeah, I imagine a physician has to be able to be persuasive about what they think is in a patient's best interests - this part is definitely on the ball.)

Regardless, I wish you good luck and hope you get off the waitlist!

Edited June 3, 2020 by HongHongHong
grammar

[nontrad&rural]

This feeling is tough and you're not alone. I was rejected with an average interview last year and I'd like to think of myself as a pretty warm empathetic person. It sent me spiralling into rumination over not only my performance but my overall fit for being a physician. But if you're already here at this stage and clearly have gone through so much to persist, you are 100 percent deserving. Everyone has offered some solid insights in terms of the traditional go to advice with regards to practicing in groups as well as friends and family, as well as educating yourself.

I'm also going to add that it's important to be kind to yourself. Interviewing skills, which in my opinion, are correlated with connecting with people in a short amount of time (pivotal for our future professions as physicians), are not built over days or even weeks. Sometimes, it does take a strenuous amount of putting yourself out there to be able to develop yourself in this area. Having said that, it's definitely a malleable skill and I've seen some people undergo amazing 180 degree transformations in terms of how they improved.

Practice that conventional advice but the art of connecting with people is something that can't necessarily be encapsulated in a methods paper. Put yourself in uncomfortable situations, talk to as many people from as many diverse groups as possible, work jobs like retail or bartending, go on dates, travel alone on a budget. I know not all these things are possible all at once, but they certainly helped me become a better person and corollary to that - a more effective communicator.