Dentist salary

[ArchEnemy]

I would just like to point out that for the past 4-5 years I have been looking at 'average dentist salary' threads and still have no idea regarding a conclusive answer. the averages mean nothing because it includes older dentists with well established practises making over 1 million..perhaps close to 1.5.

what we need to know is the current state of dentistry for new grads with heavy debt who probably want to work in their hometown (mtl,t.o,vancouver,hali etc). this is crucial for someone like me about to go 400K in debt at NYU

 

yeah I brought this up a couple of months ago and was shot down instantly by people saying that I should go into dentistry only because I have a passion for it and not for the remunerations. I still didn't get the answer in the end. I wonder how valuable a "passion" is compared to a 400k debt.

[Ostracized]

I would just like to point out that for the past 4-5 years I have been looking at 'average dentist salary' threads and still have no idea regarding a conclusive answer. the averages mean nothing because it includes older dentists with well established practises making over 1 million..perhaps close to 1.5.

what we need to know is the current state of dentistry for new grads with heavy debt who probably want to work in their hometown (mtl,t.o,vancouver,hali etc). this is crucial for someone like me about to go 400K in debt at NYU

 

No one can give a definite answer, but just from my experience in one office in Toronto (I've done the payroll) new grad associates were making $75-110K. Remember that what you earn is based on what you bill, so there is a lot of variation.

 

Still, the possibility of making <$100K while making $30K debt payments would be discouraging.

[pbure66]

yeah I brought this up a couple of months ago and was shot down instantly by people saying that I should go into dentistry only because I have a passion for it and not for the remunerations. I still didn't get the answer in the end. I wonder how valuable a "passion" is compared to a 400k debt.

 

my sentiments exactly! to be honest guys..im leaning towards turning NYU down and reapplying here in canada. not just to dentistry..but to many other programs as well. the 400K i feel is going to cripple me as im already 29 and would probably want to start a family within a decade

[ArchEnemy]

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my sentiments exactly! to be honest guys..im leaning towards turning NYU down and reapplying here in canada. not just to dentistry..but to many other programs as well. the 400K i feel is going to cripple me as im already 29 and would probably want to start a family within a decade

 

Judging from reading threads in this forum and SDN, it seems that dentists in the US earn more on the average than dentists in Canada. The following is copied over from SDN thread.

 

General Practice Dentists: $233,200

Periodontists: $279,540

Orthodontists: $290,200

Pediatric Dentists: $346,070

Endodontists: $366,340

OMFS: $516,260

 

Figures above were from the ADA website.

 

It seems to be justifiable to pay that amount of tuition fees ONLY IF you are planning to work in US instead.

 

Ps. The above figures are from dentists who have more than 5years of experience and not straight out from Dental School.

[seann]

Judging from reading threads in this forum and SDN, it seems that dentists in the US earn more on the average than dentists in Canada. The following is copied over from SDN thread.

 

General Practice Dentists: $233,200

Periodontists: $279,540

Orthodontists: $290,200

Pediatric Dentists: $346,070

Endodontists: $366,340

OMFS: $516,260

 

Figures above were from the ADA website.

 

It seems to be justifiable to pay that amount of tuition fees ONLY IF you are planning to work in US instead.

 

Ps. The above figures are from dentists who have more than 5years of experience and not straight out from Dental School.

 

 

keep in mind that these figures are for individuals with their own practice.

There is no way an associate will make >150k.

As a fresh dentist out of school you'll be lucky to make 120k

[jkay]

I'd be happy if I was just making at least 70K to start, then work my way up.

[pbure66]

I'd be happy if I was just making at least 70K to start, then work my way up.

 

Good living if you don't have a family to support..but unacceptable for someone who went to the states and is close to half a million in the hole. Therein lies the problem..especially when you factor in Quebec's high income taxes for native montrealers like me

[soaring-sun]

I've read some where that quebec issues a crazy tax credit for education expenses. Personally, I don't think this is true.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[jkay]

Good living if you don't have a family to support..but unacceptable for someone who went to the states and is close to half a million in the hole. Therein lies the problem..especially when you factor in Quebec's high income taxes for native montrealers like me

 

What could potentially be the debt for someone who studies in Canada, but living off campus, away from home? Is it close to 400K too?

[moo]

My cousin is a dentist and has been working for about 10 years. He still doesn't own his own practice but works at two clinics in the suburbs of Vancouver. He tells me that there are too many dentists in Vancouver so competition for patients is very high. He also tells me his overhead is really high, he pays about 65-70% of his billings to overhead. Thus, if he bills 1 million, he only takes home 250-300K (you won't bill 1 million as a general dentist), with a good percentage of that going to taxes. He tells me that if he could do it all over again, he'd go into medicine.

 

Not sure if he's representative of most dentists, but I don't think he really likes his job. He always tells me he's jealous of the fact that as a family doc, I can come home and not be PHYSICALLY exhausted--he says that dentistry is a physically demanding job--you're always in weird postures and using a lot of strength so at the end of your day, you can be physically tired.

 

I think if you own your own practice you can be raking it in. However, buying or starting up your own practice requires a lot of capital (much more than a family practice or a general medical practice), and like all businesses, you probably should be prepared to lose some money in the beginning. Remember that dentistry is not like medicine. In medicine, the whole population is insured. In dentistry, only a certain percentage of people have insurance and even those people may need to pay a co-pay so people may be reluctant to go to the dentist. It takes a while to build up a loyal patient base.

 

I'm not saying dentistry isn't a good career. I'm just saying that there are huge variations as to who will do well and who won't. Just like in medicine.

[ArchEnemy]

What could potentially be the debt for someone who studies in Canada, but living off campus, away from home? Is it close to 400K too?

 

Depends on which school you are attending. UBC dental seems to have the highest tuition fees in whole of Canada, of around 50k a year, which totals up to 200k. Including accommodation and food of 15k a year (assuming you're frugal it can be even less), that's only around 260k, far less than the 400k.

[hking03]

Depends on which school you are attending. UBC dental seems to have the highest tuition fees in whole of Canada, of around 50k a year, which totals up to 200k. Including accommodation and food of 15k a year (assuming you're frugal it can be even less), that's only around 260k, far less than the 400k.

 

15k a year on everything else... what kind of frugal are you talking? hobo?

 

Let's just ball park it for vancouver... if you got a dive of an apartment for 800 that's 9600.00 for 12 months, that's not including bc hydro, cable/internet and any other incidental fees you may be required to pay for such a cheap apartment.

 

Then, let's say you only spend 300.00 per month on food, not including going out for any dinners. That's 3600.00 for 12 months.

 

So, just food and shelter you are at 13200.00

 

That's not counting if you own a car, have a gym membership, cell phone plan, any existing debts you have to pay or the interest on those loans, want to buy any clothes (underwear, socks), have to pay for laundry if your suite doesn't have it...

 

So yeah, you can live off of 15k per year, but you'd be living like an absolute dog.

 

I'd say a more realistic plan is to spend about 1500-2000 per month as a ball park figure. So, anywhere from 18-24k in Vancouver to live an average/below average life.

 

At least, that's my understanding having grown up around Vancouver, paying for school and currently working my tail off.

 

The numbers may be different if you want to live in Winnipeg, but if you want to live in Vancouver proper look at spending around that much every month at least based on my experience/understanding. I may have expensive tastes though (don't want to eat kimchi and superstore meat every night).

[jkay]

^How about going to Western and living in London Ontario?

[ArchEnemy]

15k a year on everything else... what kind of frugal are you talking? hobo?

 

Let's just ball park it for vancouver... if you got a dive of an apartment for 800 that's 9600.00 for 12 months, that's not including bc hydro, cable/internet and any other incidental fees you may be required to pay for such a cheap apartment.

 

Then, let's say you only spend 300.00 per month on food, not including going out for any dinners. That's 3600.00 for 12 months.

 

So, just food and shelter you are at 13200.00

 

That's not counting if you own a car, have a gym membership, cell phone plan, any existing debts you have to pay or the interest on those loans, want to buy any clothes (underwear, socks), have to pay for laundry if your suite doesn't have it...

 

So yeah, you can live off of 15k per year, but you'd be living like an absolute dog.

 

I'd say a more realistic plan is to spend about 1500-2000 per month as a ball park figure. So, anywhere from 18-24k in Vancouver to live an average/below average life.

 

At least, that's my understanding having grown up around Vancouver, paying for school and currently working my tail off.

 

The numbers may be different if you want to live in Winnipeg, but if you want to live in Vancouver proper look at spending around that much every month at least based on my experience/understanding. I may have expensive tastes though (don't want to eat kimchi and superstore meat every night).

 

I was simply providing an estimate. An additional 3k each year is still far off from the 400k value. Anyways why would you need a car if you are living close to school? It's more of a luxury good and since you're on a huge loan, i don't see why you should be looking to lead a luxurious life. And Gym membership? Come on. why do you need one when your university already provides for it.

 

I'm currently living in downtown Toronto under a 15k budget and I don't think I'm living like a dog at all. Then again that's subjective

[pbure66]

I've read some where that quebec issues a crazy tax credit for education expenses. Personally, I don't think this is true.

Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Speak to a chartered accountant..or to the government website and read up the tuition tax credit program

[hking03]

I was simply providing an estimate. An additional 3k each year is still far off from the 400k value. Anyways why would you need a car if you are living close to school? It's more of a luxury good and since you're on a huge loan, i don't see why you should be looking to lead a luxurious life. And Gym membership? Come on. why do you need one when your university already provides for it.

 

I'm currently living in downtown Toronto under a 15k budget and I don't think I'm living like a dog at all. Then again that's subjective

 

Fair enough,

 

I'm not sure what the difference is in rental prices in Vancouve vs. Toronto. I can't find anything in Vancouver near VGH under 1200 that is at all decent (as in bigger than a shoebox for two people to live in).

 

I recognized after I posted that the difference isn't all that much.

 

I think my view is clouded by the fact that I have way too many costs in my life right now working full time and being out of school. I'm going to have to do a major overhaul on my budget if I expect to make it though the next four years alive.

 

I wish that my living expenses were under 15k per year. Lucky dog

[mazaag]

Yes...dentistry can be physically demanding...but also very rewarding. I chose it because i get a lot of satisfaction from working with my hands .. i have a brother who is an internal medicine resident and he pulls more than 100 hours a week with overnight calls sometimes and does not get well compensated and he complains too! It seems that the grass is greener on the other side all the time..but i think if you've made the right decision as to what you like...money really will not be the issue!

 

250-300K a year owning my own clinic! god damn thats A LOT of money! even 100 K or above would still be damn good for me (given my loans are paid off ofcourse).

But it seems that it will always remain subjective for everyone...i have done mundane jobs that paid pennies an hour...also at one point while i was job hunting i was dreaming of a job for 50-70k..so to me an average salary above a 100 is more than i need. What matters more to me is that i love what i do and not just keep running after money..because from what i've seen...it will never be enough and you ll never be happy with it!

 

 

 

My cousin is a dentist and has been working for about 10 years. He still doesn't own his own practice but works at two clinics in the suburbs of Vancouver. He tells me that there are too many dentists in Vancouver so competition for patients is very high. He also tells me his overhead is really high, he pays about 65-70% of his billings to overhead. Thus, if he bills 1 million, he only takes home 250-300K (you won't bill 1 million as a general dentist), with a good percentage of that going to taxes. He tells me that if he could do it all over again, he'd go into medicine.

 

Not sure if he's representative of most dentists, but I don't think he really likes his job. He always tells me he's jealous of the fact that as a family doc, I can come home and not be PHYSICALLY exhausted--he says that dentistry is a physically demanding job--you're always in weird postures and using a lot of strength so at the end of your day, you can be physically tired.

 

I think if you own your own practice you can be raking it in. However, buying or starting up your own practice requires a lot of capital (much more than a family practice or a general medical practice), and like all businesses, you probably should be prepared to lose some money in the beginning. Remember that dentistry is not like medicine. In medicine, the whole population is insured. In dentistry, only a certain percentage of people have insurance and even those people may need to pay a co-pay so people may be reluctant to go to the dentist. It takes a while to build up a loyal patient base.

 

I'm not saying dentistry isn't a good career. I'm just saying that there are huge variations as to who will do well and who won't. Just like in medicine.

[eugenius]

Yes...dentistry can be physically demanding...but also very rewarding. I chose it because i get a lot of satisfaction from working with my hands .. i have a brother who is an internal medicine resident and he pulls more than 100 hours a week with overnight calls sometimes and does not get well compensated and he complains too! It seems that the grass is greener on the other side all the time..but i think if you've made the right decision as to what you like...money really will not be the issue!

 

250-300K a year owning my own clinic! god damn thats A LOT of money! even 100 K or above would still be damn good for me (given my loans are paid off ofcourse).

But it seems that it will always remain subjective for everyone...i have done mundane jobs that paid pennies an hour...also at one point while i was job hunting i was dreaming of a job for 50-70k..so to me an average salary above a 100 is more than i need. What matters more to me is that i love what i do and not just keep running after money..because from what i've seen...it will never be enough and you ll never be happy with it!

 

agreed. the best things in life are free.

[DDSDMD]

Yes...dentistry can be physically demanding...but also very rewarding. I chose it because i get a lot of satisfaction from working with my hands .. i have a brother who is an internal medicine resident and he pulls more than 100 hours a week with overnight calls sometimes and does not get well compensated and he complains too! It seems that the grass is greener on the other side all the time..but i think if you've made the right decision as to what you like...money really will not be the issue!

 

250-300K a year owning my own clinic! god damn thats A LOT of money! even 100 K or above would still be damn good for me (given my loans are paid off ofcourse).

But it seems that it will always remain subjective for everyone...i have done mundane jobs that paid pennies an hour...also at one point while i was job hunting i was dreaming of a job for 50-70k..so to me an average salary above a 100 is more than i need. What matters more to me is that i love what i do and not just keep running after money..because from what i've seen...it will never be enough and you ll never be happy with it!

 

Well said... Couldn't agree with you more...

[aaronjw]

I am not sure if my input will mean much but I am throwing it out there anyway. Take it for the value you feel coming from someone who is almost 35.

 

As mentioned I am 35 years old. I am giving up my current career in marketing where I have been making in excess of $120K/yr (averaged out) for a significant amount of time now (6-7 years or so I imagine) because I am very good at what I do.

 

I am giving up this career and income level in search of my dream and doing something that I LOVE. It's taken me a year or so to realize that while I am very good at what I do I am not overly happy with what I do. As a marketer you're basically a pick-up artist. I'm seducing people towards a product or service and them I am screwing them into buying it (lol). I don't feel much personal reward in what I am doing so I am attempting to go back to undergrad to boost my grades so I can apply for medical school.

 

At the end of the day, money is absolutely important to all of us but it shouldn't be our primary motivator in life (this coming from someone who grew up dirt poor) - it really won't make you happy if you don't enjoy what you are doing with your life. I used to think it would and I was wrong. Through coaching kids football and being a big brother I realized helping is what gives me that personal enjoyment.

 

I am not saying to swallow a $400K debt in pursuit of becoming a dentist nor am I suggesting you not pursue becoming a dentist or any combination or the two (lol) but I am suggesting that you find what you think you'll love, be great at what you do and the money aspect WILL take care of itself. Will you make more in another area of dentistry or medicine? Maybe but maybe not the key question is WHAT will you be HAPPY doing?

 

Oh, and listen to your gut. It never lies