McMaster Health Sciences as a premed program

[dil123]

Heyy, I'm a grade 12 student from Toronto, applying to this program. I hear it's a very competitive program and once you meet 90% cut off, your chance of acceptance is (solely?) based on your supplementary application mark. I desperately want to get into this program and I think my average top 6 will be around 92-93( because of 81-83% in English:mad: ), but I'm starting to get really nervous because how they mark your supplementary application I guess is really subjective so it's like a lottery whether you will get in or not. And I've heard about 2500-3000 people usually apply and only about 300-350 will get offers( about 50% they think will reject) so you technically have a very slim chance of getting it, and I wanna go into this program more than any other. So if anyone got accepted into this program, it would really help if you can share some tips, what your mark was etc. Also anyone has stats on what the overall avg is etc? You can't check for this program from e-info.com so if someone can tell me a little abt my chances that would really help. I'm just obsessed with this program and that's primarly because I think if I go to UofT or McGill( Both overall so much better universities), but I'm not sure if I will be able to survive there considering they like to keep overall avg to 60-70% etc which doesn't necessirly have to happen at Mac. So once again, if someone who is in Health Sciences or anyone else, if you know of what % of people get in that would help me a lot because I'm having a hard time concentrating on my studies etc because I can't wait for May when we receive offers and I'm nervous because I think technically I have less than 10% chance of getting in.

 

Also considering that, I realize I may not get in, so I won't want to go to UofT or McGill because it seems like getting a good GPA there is extremely hard. I love being in a challenging program and I think that's when I give my best, but I don't want to take even a slight risk which can result me in having a bad GPA. So my 2nd option would be to go to York but I hear how the reputation of university can play a role( esp in US), and that again is taking a risk so I really don't know where I will want to go when I receive my offers. But we still have a lot of time, so is there anyone who even though they had a higher ave and got accepted to better universities but chose York because that gave you a higher chance for medical school;) ?? I know most of it comes down to individual, but I'm sure if there are more equally smart students in your class and professors want to maintain a certain maximum ave, you will likely have hard time getting good grades in that course, so I guess I'm looking for some tips that can help me make my decision easier in case I don't get into Health Sciences. But mostly, I just need some help with my Mac questions, what are my chances considering a lot of students apply( over 2000) and around 90 or atleast 80% of them I'm sure make the90% cut off.

[zmedo007]

There's nothing great about the Health Sciences program except for obnoxious rich brats. I hate every kid that goes into that program. (Except for 1 person, lol.)

 

Oh yeah, and for your chances... it's up to the supplementary application. A friend of mine got in with an 87 percent last year because she did really well on that part.

 

You HAVE a GREAT chance, but if you screw up on the S. Application, you don't.

 

It either makes you, or breaks you.

 

Good Luck, and it shouldn't be that hard

 

P.S. Don't go to UofT. (You'll thank me in advance.)

[dil123]

Thanks for replying. I've heard many people say don't go to UoT, and at the same time people say how you can do best at any university. I think I'm going to play it smart and choose not to go there.

 

I hope I can get into Health Sciences. But if not, I think I would go to York( are there any med school students who did undergrad there?) or Queens for Life Science.

[blinknoodle]

I almost wonder if you are looking to razz us.

 

My only suggestion is to really understand the philosophy of each program you wish to apply. McMaster's BHSc program is unique and is heavily focused on group work, self-directed learning, essays, presentations, etc. It is not well suited for everyone, so it would behoove you to learn more about it other than where its graduates go.

 

Happy holidays and good luck with your applications.

[teendoc]

this good has premed syndrome, all he cares about is med school. Your in highschool, relax.......(lol im in highschool also, and am on this website...so very hypocritical)

 

Thanks for replying. I've heard many people say don't go to UoT, and at the same time people say how you can do best at any university. I think I'm going to play it smart and choose not to go there.

 

I hope I can get into Health Sciences. But if not, I think I would go to York( are there any med school students who did undergrad there?) or Queens for Life Science.

[thefan]

once you meet 90% cut off, your chance of acceptance is (solely?) based on your supplementary application mark.

 

marks do not matter once you're past the cutoff, really.

 

http://forums.studentawards.com/viewforum.asp?ForumID=65&Ttoken=&SiteID=0

 

There are some useful threads on this forum that may help ease your admission anxiety. And relax a little! As the previous poster mentioned, take some time to research the program and decide whether you abide by its ideology. Then sit down and think about how you can write a supp app that is both an honest reflection of your character and can stand out amongst 3000+ applicants. Your application is read more than once by both students and faculty, so while chance is certainly a factor, it takes a little more than luck.

[grapz]

i say go to UofT. More oppertunities for research and connections.

 

I dont' find it as hard as everyone says it is. But sure it is hard to get 90 +. 85 + is very possible tho

[D-Rock]

Look, as far as getting into med school goes, schools don't really care where you go beyond whether it allows you to meet in-province eligibility and what GPA conversion table they will use. That's it.

 

You also need to consider what you are interested in, and what you like to do outside of school. No matter where you go, some students will tell you they love it there, others will say they hate it. Get into a field you enjoy, and it's okay to take a year or two to figure out what that is. Get involved in extracurricular stuff that keeps you engaged, because no one's looking out for you, so you need to make things happen for yourself.

 

Here are a few things I'd keep in mind to help strategize (interesting--spellcheck says that's not a word) which university to attend, but of course other people may or may not consider these things important:

 

• If you live in Ontario, and want to hedge your med school bets, go to Calgary or Edmonton (IP after two years, and several ON schools don't prefer ON students). That's another 200 hundred spots available to you.
  
• If you like big schools, great reputations, go to Toronto or McGill.
  
• If you like mild climates, go to UVic, UBC, or SFU. If you hate rain, better pick UVic.
  
• If you like blondes, go to Western. The campus is also pretty (at least in the summer)
  
• If you like the independent study thing (I do), go to Mac
  
• If you like the East coast, go there (I don't have any experience other than that Halifax is a cool city).
  
• If the university town thing grabs you, Queen's should be high on your list. Or the University of Oregon, which is an awesome place to go. Go Ducks!
  
• If you're considering grad school as another possibility, go to a smaller school that does research. I have friends who went to Trent, Brock, etc., got unbelievable grades, worked with a prof to get an entry level publication, presentations, and strong reference letter and they're pulling in very high level grant monies now (Trudeau, etc.). Remember med schools also don't care where the grades come from.
  
• If you find you enjoy a steady diet of wheat, Saskatchewan is for you. Oh, and the Roughriders won the Grey Cup, so everyone there is happy now.
  
• If you want my ex-girlfriend to be your biology/entomology/whatever TA, go to Winnipeg. She's nice. Her mom's a teacher, very friendly. And Winnipeg's an okay place, very friendly people. But leave once the bugs hatch--believe me, winter at Portage and Main while standing naked and wet is better. I'd make a comment about studying infectious diseases in Winnipeg, but following my reasons to go there, that would be off-colour.
  
• If you are into politics, Ottawa/Carleton is a good place.
  
• If you wake up and say, "Man, I hope I get to speak French today", you should consider Laval or Sherbrooke. Do not consider BC schools.
  

This probably didn't help you much, but hopefully you had fun reading it. Now I sit and wait for the quoters to argue how I've slighted their schools.

 

Remember, university is about growth and learning. Killing yourself to get 90+% when you can work at a reasonable pace to get 80% (A-) and continue to do the things you love to do is not worth it.

[Alastriss]

Heyy, I'm a grade 12 student from Toronto, applying to this program. I hear it's a very competitive program and once you meet 90% cut off, your chance of acceptance is (solely?) based on your supplementary application mark. I desperately want to get into this program and I think my average top 6 will be around 92-93( because of 81-83% in English:mad: ), but I'm starting to get really nervous because how they mark your supplementary application I guess is really subjective so it's like a lottery whether you will get in or not. And I've heard about 2500-3000 people usually apply and only about 300-350 will get offers( about 50% they think will reject) so you technically have a very slim chance of getting it, and I wanna go into this program more than any other. So if anyone got accepted into this program, it would really help if you can share some tips, what your mark was etc. Also anyone has stats on what the overall avg is etc? You can't check for this program from e-info.com so if someone can tell me a little abt my chances that would really help. I'm just obsessed with this program and that's primarly because I think if I go to UofT or McGill( Both overall so much better universities), but I'm not sure if I will be able to survive there considering they like to keep overall avg to 60-70% etc which doesn't necessirly have to happen at Mac. So once again, if someone who is in Health Sciences or anyone else, if you know of what % of people get in that would help me a lot because I'm having a hard time concentrating on my studies etc because I can't wait for May when we receive offers and I'm nervous because I think technically I have less than 10% chance of getting in.

 

Also considering that, I realize I may not get in, so I won't want to go to UofT or McGill because it seems like getting a good GPA there is extremely hard. I love being in a challenging program and I think that's when I give my best, but I don't want to take even a slight risk which can result me in having a bad GPA. So my 2nd option would be to go to York but I hear how the reputation of university can play a role( esp in US), and that again is taking a risk so I really don't know where I will want to go when I receive my offers. But we still have a lot of time, so is there anyone who even though they had a higher ave and got accepted to better universities but chose York because that gave you a higher chance for medical school;) ?? I know most of it comes down to individual, but I'm sure if there are more equally smart students in your class and professors want to maintain a certain maximum ave, you will likely have hard time getting good grades in that course, so I guess I'm looking for some tips that can help me make my decision easier in case I don't get into Health Sciences. But mostly, I just need some help with my Mac questions, what are my chances considering a lot of students apply( over 2000) and around 90 or atleast 80% of them I'm sure make the90% cut off.

 

back in highschool i sounded like that...but why do you want to go to Mac and what kind of a learner are you?

 

and i hope that program isn't appealing to you because of the overrepresentation of BHSc students in med schools because thats a result of a statistical selection bias.

[dil123]

@ D-Rock, thanks for the long post haha , I did enjoy reading it. I agree, I don't think I'm gonna kill myself for 90+ in every course, but if I can with decent amount of effort I'll try. I will prob want to have GPA of 3.8, don't know what that is in percentage, and obv some decent extracurricular activities etc. For now I think I'm gonna do a bit more research into different programs I've chosen and see which one I would find more intersting rather than easy I guess( because I don't see the point of studying something for 4 years which won't be my main interest)

 

 

@ Alastriss, I know how BHSc is different from other programs( PBL, Inquiry etc) and to be honest, I don't know much about them, but I'm sure I'm able to adjust to different learning environments so I don't think it'll be a problem as long as the course material is interesting.

And hmm, you guessed it, I wanna get into this program because how >50%( for one year it was 80& I think) get into med school. Sorry, but I don't know what you meant by statistical selection bias.....Do you mean how students already had 90 + going into this program?

[Guest begaster]

Because the acceptance is so competitive, people who get into the program are the people who would have gotten into medical school regardless of where they went. If you have a group of determined 90%+ high school students and they all want to go to medicine, odds are the majority will be intelligent and motivated enough to continue doing well in university. The program itself doesn't make you any more or any less likely to succeed. It's all you.

[sbrugby]

Hey OP, maybe I can give some good advice because I was in a similar situation two years ago.

 

I got into McMaster Health Sciences, but chose to go to York for biomedical sciences in the end.

 

In my opinion, the most important thing is that you select the university that is best for you in all aspects. When I chose my undergrad university, I kept a lot of factors in mind including location, campus, program, affects on my chances for med school, etc. etc. Picking a university solely on program and reputation is really naive. Everyone is different, and you have to pick the one that's best for your specific situation.

 

If you have any questions about York science, I'll be happy to answer them.

 

GL with your decision making.

[Jazzie]

Biomedical Sciences was one of my choices before but decided otherwise. how is it?

[TurboCC]

Hey OP, maybe I can give some good advice because I was in a similar situation two years ago.

 

I got into McMaster Health Sciences, but chose to go to York for biomedical sciences in the end.

 

In my opinion, the most important thing is that you select the university that is best for you in all aspects. When I chose my undergrad university, I kept a lot of factors in mind including location, campus, program, affects on my chances for med school, etc. etc. Picking a university solely on program and reputation is really naive. Everyone is different, and you have to pick the one that's best for your specific situation.

 

If you have any questions about York science, I'll be happy to answer them.

 

GL with your decision making.

 

Hey sbrugby, man I was looking to find someone from YorkU doing sciences for so long. I have so many questions about the 5 Science programs there at YorkU because I am seriously considering this Uni. Well let's face it, my main aim is to get into med school, and I want to apply to a program that will allow me to be a competent applicant and give that extra edge especially when it comes to the GPA. How are the science programs there (esp. biomedical science), how is the education offered, difficulty level, types of students, and the atmosphere? I've heard its the best place to rack up a good GPA, is that true? Also, how are you liking it?

 

Thanks.

[dil123]

Hey sbrugby, you won't believe how quickly I'll click that accept offer button when I see my offer of adm for BHSc program lol, but it's good how you considered other factors before making your decision. And I'm glad someone chose biomed science over BHSc, it'll make me feel better if I don't get into BHSc lol:p. Anyway, I have same questions as TurboCC, if you can answer those plz.

[sbrugby]

Biomedical Sciences was one of my choices before but decided otherwise. how is it?

 

Well to be honest, it sounds a little more fancy than say just "biology", but it's basically the same as York's biology program with maybe one or two different compulsory courses, like organic chemistry. But a lot of the biology students take organic chemistry anyways, for example, so it doesn't really make a difference except that maybe it sounds kind of cooler when you get your degree =)

[sbrugby]

I'll try to go through each of these one by one the best I can.

 

How are the science programs there (esp. biomedical science)

 

I can't comment on all of York's science programs, so I'll just talk about biomedical sciences, since that's the one I guess most of you are interested in anyways. Like I said in my previous post, it's basically the same as the Biology program with a few different compulsory courses. So one key thing to point out is that just because it's called "biomedical sciences", does NOT mean you get access to any special medical science courses any other biology student wouldn't.

 

You're going to be taking the standard biology courses you could've taken at any other university, e.g. genetics, biochemistry, biostatistics (these 3 are some of my 2nd year courses right now).

 

The only knock I can put on York's science programs is that they lack the course diversity you would find at say UofT. We don't have neuroscience, for example, but if you just care about a solid biology/biomedical sciences program, we are fine.

 

How is the education offered

 

This goes for any university, but this is completely professor dependent. I had two chemistry profs in 1st year, one was amazing, one was not so good. In biology we had three profs, one I thought was great (though others adamantly disagree =P), one that was meh, and one that I slept through his lectures because they were really pointless in my opinion. Not much you can do about that there.

 

Difficulty level?

 

First thing to point out is that for science courses you're basically marked on three things: tests, labs, and exams (some science courses do not have labs though). In terms of difficulty, the labs for 1st year biology, chemistry and physics are really easy. Except for two biology formal lab reports, all of my labs just required you to hand in some work at the end of the 3 hour session - which is much better than having to write a full lab report at home.

 

Most people seem to do much worse in 1st year chemistry than they did in high school. I'm not sure if this is normal across all universities, but ask any 1st year biology student at York, and chances are they found chemistry the hardest of all their courses. It's basically problem solving, but I think a lot of high schools don't prepare students well in terms of problem solving. So might want to watch out for that.

 

I think all of the tests/exams in science here were fair. Is 1st year science more difficult than high school science? Yes. The main reason though is because there is way more material to cover in university than high school. Anyone I know who worked hard here did well. Those who were lazy and put in the same number of hours as high school (tho there are exceptions) tend to not do as well as high school. The key is to keep on top of all the material.

 

In my opinion, if you work hard to understand all of the assigned material/problem sets to practice, it is very easy to obtain an A average, and maybe possible to obtain even an A+ average in any course.

 

types of students

 

Most students I've met here are great. Even the obviously med-school bound students are all nice to each other and work together. This may be true at any university though, but I think that pre-med students and students in general may be a bit more relaxed at York. It's not cut-throat at all.

 

and the atmosphere?

 

Really great. People are nice and relaxed like I said. The only negative to the York experience is that because a lot of students commute, it's not like say Mac where most people live there and you form sort of a close-knit community.

 

I've heard its the best place to rack up a good GPA, is that true?

 

My average in high school was a 94 or so. In 1st year science at York I think it was maybe 93 or smtg, and I was able to obtain a 4.0 (keep in mind tho that you determine your GPA by converting each individual course out of 4.0 first, I was simply making a comparison here to show that getting 90's at York is possible). I think there were 5 students in 1st year who had 4.0s, but I'm sure there were quite a few more who were able to rack up high 3.9s. It this common at other universities? I don't know.

 

Two of my A+s in chemistry and physics were thanks to much needed bell curves at the end of the course. One good thing about York is that they do curve if the class avg is below 65 or so, which is common for a lot of the 1st year large science classes. This 100% happens every year for chemistry for first semester.

 

If you're aiming for a 3.80 (which is an A average at York), then I think it is 100% doable if you work hard. I'm not sure if this is true at other universities. However if you're trying to get a 3.9+, it may be hard for the very reason that A+ = 90<, and A = 80-89. So the problem with York is that both an 89 and a 80 garner a 3.8 on the OMSAS GPA scale.

 

From what I hear though (take it for what it's worth) of other students who I consider very bright and possibly better at school than I am, they have found some of their courses tough at Queen's, UofT and Western and definitely did not get 4.0s. Conversely, I haven't found any of my courses really that tough so far.

 

Take it for what it's worth, as my experience might be an isolated one. I do feel that I understand how to study correctly, test-taking and how teachers/professors mark very well, which I think is sometimes more important than just knowing the material. So my experience could be an outlier, but I still feel strongly overall that it is easier to get an A+ in a York science course than other major universities here.

[sbrugby]

BTW for what it's worth, of the 5 ppl who had 4.0s in 1st year, two of them are close friends of mine that I met here.

 

They also talked to a lot of their friends from high school at different universities, and we all agreed that while we do think that we'd still do well at the other universities, for 1st year, we would have to work a lot harder at say UofT or Queen's to get the same or close to the same marks. But also take that with a grain of salt.

 

OH and sorry for the long post, I got carried away. I hope it helps though, and feel free to ask me to clarify on anything.

[sbrugby]

Because the acceptance is so competitive, people who get into the program are the people who would have gotten into medical school regardless of where they went. If you have a group of determined 90%+ high school students and they all want to go to medicine, odds are the majority will be intelligent and motivated enough to continue doing well in university. The program itself doesn't make you any more or any less likely to succeed. It's all you.

 

I agree that the the success rate of Mac health science students getting into med school is is mostly due to the fact of the type of student that gets into Health sci in the first place.

 

I do think though that their program does better prepare students for interviews and the medical profession simply because of the nature of the program. From what I hear, Health sciences emphasize communication, group work, etc. to a fair degree, which you don't really find in normal science courses. Being exposed to this type of environment I think does give you an advantage, though probably not a huge one.

 

But yah, IF there is an advantage, it's not from simply having the name BHsc on your transcript - any advantage comes from the work you put into the program yourself.

[TurboCC]

Wow, thanks a lot man for the info, appreciate it. You covered pretty much everything.

 

Now I really am considering York as a pre-med option, cuz from how you put it and from what I've heard from others as well it sounds like a great program. So 90 percent chance I'll see you next year in September haha .

[sbrugby]

No problem, glad i could help =)

[dil123]

Hey you said how it's hard to get 3.9+ in York because 80-89 is 3.8, what do you mean by that? Is it because if you're getting like 85+, it would be 3.9 in other universities whereas at York it's 3.8. So what % would it be for you to get 3.9( is it 90-around mid 90?) and what about 4.0? Also when you do your tests, do you get your mark in terms of percentage or is it A, B, etc because if it's the latter and you get A, how do you know whether it's 80, 85% or 89%? Sorry if some of my questions don't make sense.

[wisdom_tooth]

Hey you said how it's hard to get 3.9+ in York because 80-89 is 3.8, what do you mean by that? Is it because if you're getting like 85+, it would be 3.9 in other universities whereas at York it's 3.8. So what % would it be for you to get 3.9( is it 90-around mid 90?) and what about 4.0? Also when you do your tests, do you get your mark in terms of percentage or is it A, B, etc because if it's the latter and you get A, how do you know whether it's 80, 85% or 89%? Sorry if some of my questions don't make sense.

 

okay here's the deal. Since York goes only by letter grades, and since there's no A-, when you get an A, and use the OMSAS conversion table, then it's automatically a 3.8. so 80+ is 3.8, 90+ 4.0. The only way you can get a 3.9 overgall GPA is if you have a mix of As and A+'s

Your transcript will ONLY contain a letter grade, no percentage.

 

"how do you know whether it's 80, 85% or 89%?" you don't, if someone at York got an 80% and another York student got 89%, both will have an A show up on their transcript. If you have an 80% at say Uoft it's converted to a 3.7ish I think. But if you get an 89% at Uoft it's a 4.0. So if most of your marks are in the low 80s the York's grading system is your friend, if not, then it sucks. So my advice is, if you go to York, aim for an 80 on the dot and or 90+.

Good luck!

[Jochi1543]

okay here's the deal. Since York goes only by letter grades, and since there's no A-, when you get an A, and use the OMSAS conversion table, then it's automatically a 3.8. so 80+ is 3.8, 90+ 4.0. The only way you can get a 3.9 overgall GPA is if you have a mix of As and A+'s

Your transcript will ONLY contain a letter grade, no percentage.

 

"how do you know whether it's 80, 85% or 89%?" you don't, if someone at York got an 80% and another York student got 89%, both will have an A show up on their transcript. If you have an 80% at say Uoft it's converted to a 3.7ish I think. But if you get an 89% at Uoft it's a 4.0. So if most of your marks are in the low 80s the York's grading system is your friend, if not, then it sucks. So my advice is, if you go to York, aim for an 80 on the dot and or 90+.

Good luck!

 

lol, I love your sig.

[dil123]

okay here's the deal. Since York goes only by letter grades, and since there's no A-, when you get an A, and use the OMSAS conversion table, then it's automatically a 3.8. so 80+ is 3.8, 90+ 4.0. The only way you can get a 3.9 overgall GPA is if you have a mix of As and A+'s

Your transcript will ONLY contain a letter grade, no percentage.

 

"how do you know whether it's 80, 85% or 89%?" you don't, if someone at York got an 80% and another York student got 89%, both will have an A show up on their transcript. If you have an 80% at say Uoft it's converted to a 3.7ish I think. But if you get an 89% at Uoft it's a 4.0. So if most of your marks are in the low 80s the York's grading system is your friend, if not, then it sucks. So my advice is, if you go to York, aim for an 80 on the dot and or 90+.

Good luck!

Thanks for clearing it up. I just checked the GPA conversion table, 89% at UofT would be 3.9(85-89%). Anyway, it sucks though how 80-89 is samething because the difference is huge so someone getting high 80s is usually working harder than someone low 80s, so it's kind of stupid how they are credited the same mark/reward. And I was thinking how I would usually get 85+ and occasionally 90+ so ending up with GPA around 3.9, but now it looks like it would be more like 3.8-3.85(cuz 90% is always hard), which is still really good, but it won't give me that extra edge when it comes to med school that someone with 3.9-4.0 would get.