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hp18

Mac MDs struggling at licensing exams

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I do not know how far it is true, but heard a rumour that Mac MDs do not do well in licensing exam due to their programme. And this is the reason why Mac has very bad ranking (108th in US + Canada and close to lowest in Canada). Is it true? Unfortunately I have only one interview (i.e. Mac) and have no choice. Hoping next wave at UoT appreciates my credentials.

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Mac has a very different program that does not correspond as well to passing the exam as it is to doing well as a doctor. The issue is that students who do not excel in problem based learning often still go to that school especially if it is the only school that interviewed them or if it is the only school they applied to because of MCAT marks, mixed with not an Ottawa gpa and not from northern Ontario. As far as I have heard the students who can learn in a PBL format do fine on the test. I have heard many times the same thing you said about doing lower on the test, however Mac students perform just as well as any grad by the end of residency. Most people stlil pass the test (highest pass is from Toronto within Ontario) however, if you are willing to study and maybe use Toronto Notes (good text put together by 4th year students at UofT) then you should be fine. Part of it may be to do with the one less year as well.

 

Good luck on your mac interview. My mac interview is in April! :)

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If all you care about is success at the MCCQE, you wanna go to Alberta, not Toronto.

 

You're going to get trained well no matter where you go in Canada - your beloved ranking system is ranking a lot of things, last of which, if that, is quality of medical education. It's just like people looking at "medical doctorate" in Macleans and assuming that means quality of undergraduate medical education - and it's not. It ranks research and funding and numberof books in the library and stuff like that.

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Hi there,

 

This past 7 months I've worked with quite a few Mac clerks and I can vouch that those who I have worked with have been, for the most part, excellent. Really, no different from the make-up of my graduating class at UofC. Every class is going to have a few folks who may not do so well on the MCCQE exams but from what I can see, I doubt that Mac's program would push their students towards not doing well.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

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It's just like people looking at "medical doctorate" in Macleans and assuming that means quality of undergraduate medical education - and it's not. It ranks research and funding and numberof books in the library and stuff like that.

 

In fact, Memorial doesn't even fall into that category in Macleans because it's classified as a medium sized school (like Guelph etc.), despite the fact that it has a full blown medical school.

 

The Macleans rankings are crap for overall university status, let alone the status of individual programs inside the universities.

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I am not sure where you found those numbers about Mac. Look at Macleans magazine (Dec. issue, I beleive). Mac ranks 2nd in Ontario. And according to the school, they had 100% exam success rates the last few years.

 

It all depends on what you put into it. If you aren't mature, motivated, and self disciplined, you will not do well in the Mac program.

 

There are a few articles out right now about 3 year programs versus 4 year - and how there is NO difference. Infact they are actually considering making all programs 3 years (saves tax payers $170,000 a year / student, plus students tuition), and more physicians will be produced, faster. (Although you will have a double cohert affect that first year with residency spots).

They are doing more studies right now to compare exam results, competency, and complaints / restricitons after graduation.

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Last year when my brother had a mac interview, he did mention that one of the med students there and a prof did say that Mac usually doesn't do as well on those exams and that some doctors do find them less knowledable than graduates from other med schools. I'm not sure if this is entirely true and its probably best not to read to much into it, but just adding some info from mac students and profs

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Last year when my brother had a mac interview, he did mention that one of the med students there and a prof did say that Mac usually doesn't do as well on those exams and that some doctors do find them less knowledgeable than graduates from other med schools. I'm not sure if this is entirely true and its probably best not to read to much into it, but just adding some info from mac students and profs

 

I hope I have a choice so that I can go to UoT/Queens/Western or some other better school. Doing MD is a huge investment in terms of time & money. It will be wise to put it at right place.

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If you don't want to go to Mac, then don't apply there.

 

It is the most innovative school in Canada (first PBL '69, new COMPAS curriculum, encourages collaborative practice and learning ... (which all schools are just now looking at).

 

You need to spend alot more time looking into the schools you are applying to - particularly in preparation for the interview.

U of T is a great school, however they focus on the didactic, and most physicians and students feel they lack the clinical skills and confidence after graduation.

Every school has it's advantages and disadvantages - you should know them before applying,.. which schools fit your learning style, what you want out of it ..etc.

 

All schools in Canada have excellent curriculums,... there aren't any 'bad Canadian med schools', and remember ... everyone is called Dr. after graduation.

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I hope I have a choice so that I can go to UoT/Queens/Western or some other better school. Doing MD is a huge investment in terms of time & money. It will be wise to put it at right place.

 

hp18 - Your posts have always stuck in my head, ever since the old ezboard days (assuming you're the same person). I'm sad to say that they don't stick in my head for positive reasons.

 

After all these years I still can't decide whether you're a troll or just exceptionally poor with words. Regardless, I would strongly suggest changing your attitude prior to your interview. As others have said -- if you don't want to attend Mac, then why are you interviewing there?

 

pb

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hp18 - Your posts have always stuck in my head

 

lol mine too ;)

 

I have a friend who graduated MAC MD.

 

Then came to a surgical program, for which he felt he was wholly unprepared.

 

He called his MAC education a "$30 000 library card" since all they told him to do to solve a medical problem was to read.

 

ROFL! :D

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Just think of it this way: UofT, Queens and Western accept a combined total of less than 400 students. Certainly, there are more than 400 great applicants out there and they may choose to go to Mac, Ottawa or out of province/country.

 

Not that it changes your point that much, but UofT, Queens and Western combined accept close to 500 students, not fewer than 400.

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I have a friend who graduated MAC MD.

 

Then came to a surgical program, for which he felt he was wholly unprepared.

 

He called his MAC education a "$30 000 library card" since all they told him to do to solve a medical problem was to read.

 

Everyone's learning style is different. If you can't learn well from PBL or CBL, Mac and UofO would be terrible choices.

 

On a side note: in practice, if you can't solve a medical problem with your memory alone, you're most likely going to have to read. If you don't get used to this, you will not be very good at diagnosing things other than strep throat, mono, broken bones, etc (all the simple stuff that doesn't require any reading).

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I have a friend who graduated MAC MD.

 

Then came to a surgical program, for which he felt he was wholly unprepared.

 

He called his MAC education a "$30 000 library card" since all they told him to do to solve a medical problem was to read.

 

I am sorry if I have hurt feelings by starting this thread. I was not trying to criticize Mac. But I have heard few cases as above. Thank God, I now have interview at UoT too.

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I am sorry if I have hurt feelings by starting this thread. I was not trying to criticize Mac. But I have heard few cases as above. Thank God, I now have interview at UoT too.

 

For any med school, there isn't a 100% success rate. Personally, I know that U of T would be the worst fit for me - I would take Mac of U of T in a heartbeat. It's all about your personal learning style and what is a good fit for you. Basing your opinion of the quality of a med school on the stories of people who hated that school is a pretty bad idea - for any school, I'm sure you can find stories of people who hated it.

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I agree with the general tone...there are cases successes and failures from every school and they are all generally good.

 

I don't blame someone for accepting mac even if they may not be the best for PBL...if it's your only choice

 

As for the struggling i've heard the same rumours of mac residents not being adequately prepared...i've also heard of department heads who won't consider western grads. These are nothing more than rumours and should be taken with a grain of salt (of the 15 or so doctors i've shadowed by far the best imo was a mac grad)

 

not to mention the source of that 108 place stat still hasn't been posted.

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I am not sure what 'U of T prep course' you are referring to ... could you possibly be confusing it with the Toronto Notes? It is pretty standard across the country to use the Toronto Notes for studying in your final year - it is accessible to anyone, everywhere. It is like a detailed set of Kaplan review notes.

Just remember .. you get out of it, what you put into it.

If someone enters a surgical residency, I would expect they would of taken advantage of their elective time so they aren't 'lost' regarding surgical concepts entering residency.

However I have heard from many many 1st year residents (from all Canadian schools) that they feel 'unprepared' - it is a natural fear after graduation. Your first year practicing after residency, you will also fear feeling 'unprepared' - regardless of the school you graduated from.

 

I think the point here is, do some research - find the school (s) that best suit your learning style. You potentially could put someone elses' dream on hold, just remember that! No one wants a fellow student with a crappy attitude that would rather be at another school.

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I think the point here is, do some research - find the school (s) that best suit your learning style. You potentially could put someone elses' dream on hold, just remember that! No one wants a fellow student with a crappy attitude that would rather be at another school.

 

That is true enough. I know I learn by doing and think I could do very well in a Mac like environment (although still think Queens is my first choice!), but some people really can not. My BF got an interview at Mac and then spent more time reasearching schools (he did not expect to get interviews having applied for after 3rd year and did not know the programs as well) and realized what the Mac program involved. He turned down his interview and thankfully someone who probably spent more time deciding where to apply got off the interview waitlist. Granted all that said and done people want to go to med school and tend to be willing to go anywhere. In his case he figured that maybe eventually he would be willing to go to Mac but figured he should try at the programs that were more like him a few times first. Granted in interview they may have realized he would be better suited in a Queens/TO/Western type program.

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Everyone's learning style is different. If you can't learn well from PBL or CBL, Mac and UofO would be terrible choices.

 

On a side note: in practice, if you can't solve a medical problem with your memory alone, you're most likely going to have to read. If you don't get used to this, you will not be very good at diagnosing things other than strep throat, mono, broken bones, etc (all the simple stuff that doesn't require any reading).

 

But, if you are in the OR, and you are scrubbed, you can't pull out an anatomy book. You should have that anatomy memorized prior to scrubbing. His complaint was that he had no anatomy education. Key for surgery.

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If you are scrubbing for a surgery, it is your responsibility to know the basic anatomy - regardless of what your Anatomy & Physiology background is.

 

For example, you shouldn't be doing a general surgery elective (let alone residency) without doing ALOT of reading / preparing before hand on the GI system / breast, etc. Expect to be grilled by the staff / residents.

If you are doing a neurosurgery elective (or residency), one assumes you have prepared yourself beforehand on neuro anatomy / meds, etc.

 

The school can only teach so much ... how prepared you are, is up to you.

 

Not everyone's interest lies in surgery - so why would schools emphasize surgical anatomy, when there are so many other things to focus on.

Learning the basic / surgical anatomy should be expected , but if surgery is someone's interest, then it is up to them to recognize their own learning needs, and put the time and energy into it.

 

I work in the OR, and see so many students come unprepared ... nothing frustrates surgeons more, trust me. ;)

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The school can only teach so much ... how prepared you are, is up to you.

 

but if surgery is someone's interest, then it is up to them to recognize their own learning needs, and put the time and energy into it.

 

I work in the OR, and see so many students come unprepared ... nothing frustrates surgeons more, trust me. ;)

 

. . . or you could choose to go to a school with a kickass full dissection program to go along with your self education, like Alberta

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