U of T or McGill

[Orchid]

I suggest you not make any assumptions and wait for May 15th. Each school has different admission criteria and acceptance at one does not imply the same in the other. Once U of T accepts you then you can ask this question.

 

 

 

I completely disagree.

 

It is better to think these things out and contemplate potential decisions before-hand, rather than waiting to see what happens and then make a rushed decision.

 

It's hypothetical but important...

[noncestvrai]

very true - but Toronto wins hands down on the restaurant front

 

I don't know what you're smoking...

 

Better restaurants?

 

The Goumand report says otherwise...

 

noncestvrai

[Geraldw]

Montreal gets my vote

[miss_sunshine]

both schools are absolutely fantastic. I can't tell you much about U of T but do know about mcgill's med program

 

Simulation center: It's a great learning resource but so far (up to my 2nd year), I haven't spent THAT much time there. Yes, there are some skills sessions but working on manequins, no matter how realistic they are supposed to be, is not the same as on real people. It is a great learning experience but it's not exactly as great as i thought it would be.

 

anatomy: we do have a dissection program but from what i've heard, it's no where near as in depth as U of T's. We only dissect the thorax and abdomen. For the other systems, we look at pre dissected prosections

exams: mcgil is pass/fail for the first 2 years which is great

 

facilities: lecture rooms are alright and the library is good as well but some of the hospitals really need to be renovated (although some of them, like the Jewish General, are undergoing extensive renovations and additions). Often, the wards aren't air conditioned, the spaces are cramped and there isn't a lot of space for lectures/teaching sessions.

 

language: if you don't speak at least some french (or if you are unwilling to learn french), it will put you at a disadvantage. No matter what anyone else tells you, you will miss out on intersting cases. Although all patient records and teaching hospitals are english, MANY of your patients (maybe as high as 50%) will be francophone, often unilingual. I've seen many of my classmates miss out on patients because they can't comunicate with them.

 

heterogeneity of teaching across hospital sites: experiences can differ DRAMATICALLY depending on where you are rotating for a particular rotation. This is probably true for any large school with multiple teaching hospitals though..

 

late exposure to clinical exam skills: we only start learning any clinical medicine in the last 1/2 of second year, including ANY physicla exam skills. we have a crash course in exam skills during January. I would have prefered intergrating it into the first year curriculum like other schools do because often the teaching feels rushed and varies a lot depending on who is your tutor

nevertheless, I love mcgill and have thoroughly enjoyed my (almost) 2 years here. no school is perfect and I wanted to respond to one of the first posts here glorifying mcgill med. when picking a school, you need to consider so many factors including if the school is a good fit and whether you will be happy living in that city. Of course, this only applies if you are accepted to >1 school

[Geraldw]

I also agree in that either school will be absolutely great!

 

Just to balance out the previous post,

 

U of T's lecture facilities are quite old and in fact depressing (having spent 4 years there) and they don't have a simulation centre

 

Not all areas of the hospitals are air conditioned either, which should not even factor into your decision, lol

 

But if you are lucky enough to choose between these schools, congrats!

 

And I think you should focus on the city that makes you feel more comfortable and where you could see yourself for the next 4 years

[noncestvrai]

language: if you don't speak at least some french (or if you are unwilling to learn french), it will put you at a disadvantage. No matter what anyone else tells you, you will miss out on intersting cases. Although all patient records and teaching hospitals are english, MANY of your patients (maybe as high as 50%) will be francophone, often unilingual. I've seen many of my classmates miss out on patients because they can't comunicate with them.

 

No, some residents from the Gulf don't speak a word, and I have several classmates who will be graduating with me with almost no skills in French, and did fine.

 

There is always somebody to help you out around for a hx...BUT of course it helps to know French.

 

And you can get by in Mtl knowing English only quite easily.

 

noncestvrai

[noncestvrai]

Better restaurants?

The Goumand report says otherwise...

 

Tough crowd...

 

noncestvrai

[Ollie]

U of T's lecture facilities are quite old and in fact depressing (having spent 4 years there) and they don't have a simulation centre

I agree that MSB 3153 and 3154 were quite depressing after spending the better part of two years in them. But they both were recently renovated and are now all shiny and bright! Complete with video-conferencing technology for when they will be linked up to Mississauga.

 

I don't know what the simulation centre at McGill is like, but in Toronto there is the surgical skills centre at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto. As a med student you won't spend too much time there (we were there for our surgical skills sessions prior to starting our surgery rotation and that was about it). A sim centre is something that would probably have more importance if/when you are deciding on a surgical specialty.

[miss_sunshine]

No, some residents from the Gulf don't speak a word, and I have several classmates who will be graduating with me with almost no skills in French, and did fine.

 

There is always somebody to help you out around for a hx...BUT of course it helps to know French.

 

And you can get by in Mtl knowing English only quite easily.

 

noncestvrai

 

I haven't started clerkship yet but in the pre-clerkship (ICM) rotations, whenever our tutors would assign patients to interview, all the interesting cases seemed to be in French (maybe just the way it was at the hospitals I was at) and the french speaking students volunteered to take their Hx, etc... My french is minimal (non existent) and I have found that it can be difficult sometimes. I don't know what it will be like having to always find a translator to be able to communicate with french patients but I guess I'll see next year... Just something to consider.

I do agree with you that you can get by VERY easily in Montreal knowing only english.

[LFTs]

Guys, this is a stupid debate.

 

Both school are fantastic. Both schools have great reputations in Canada and internationally.

 

Students from both schools match well in both CaRMS and ERAS.

 

If you have the luxury of choosing between schools, then pick your city.

 

And finally, my dad is better than your dad.

[degoo_]

Didn't read the other replies, but I was in the same boat last year. I chose UofT in the end because of the city and proximity to home.

Both are absolutely fantastic schools. Even today, when people ask why I didn't go to McGill, I don't really have a good answer. McGill's reputation outside of Canada is better than UofT, the city is amazing, it is cheaper to live there, the faculty is great and there is plenty of research + other things related to medicine. I love UofT though and medicine here is absolutely fantastic. The class is really big, and although I don't see that as a downside, I could definitely see some advantages to a smaller class.

Enjoy this decision... it is a sweet one to make cause you win either way.

[apt]

My order of preference is:

 

1)UofT

2)Queens

3)UWO

4)UoO

5)McMaster

 

Not going out of Ontario!

[PlnA]

Hey thanks for all the replies...

 

Sure we have our preferences in terms of the city. But I definitely agree that they are both great schools! Thanks for all the help fellows!

 

I didn't really see this thread as a competition between two school thing. I actually found it quite helpful. There are a lot of mentioned factors that I never really considered-OSAP, Simulation Centre, French, (or be it better looking girls/guys)... It's worth considering.

 

It's true- in the end it still depends on our motivation to succeed. And congrats for everyone who's been accepted or who are attending to both schools.-amazing education for both.

 

As for myself, I really like the city of Montreal. It's some distance from home (Toronto) so I get a nice balance of having my own space and somewhere for vocation. Also McGill is just an amazing school. Of course, with Toronto as home, I also know U of T is legendary.

 

However, the French aspect of Montreal is worrisome. I have some basal level of French. And it's not the first time that I heard not speaking French could be a problem. I worked in several hospitals and, in my opinion, not speaking French does mean missing out on communication with patients. Yet again, I have learned quite a bit of conversational French in this environment. So it was worth it in the end. (it very well may be a different story when I have to learn from medical cases).

 

I will take your advice to see U of T as much as possible to get a better feel about the school. Thanks for all the postings!

 

Good luck! Summer is coming!

[degoo_]

The French thing isn't a massive barrier for McGill. It will help with some patients, but heck, in Toronto unless you know the top 20 world languages, you'll definitely have some communication problems at some point too!

[esquilax]

If you're planning on staying in Canada, I wouldn't be too concerned about the ranking and/or supposed reputation of your school. You're more than likely to find a job graduating out of any Canadian med school. Pick the school that best suits you and that you feel would best prepare you for your future goals. This means different things to different people.

[navidp]

No one will reprimand you for not knowing french. But it WILL make your life difficult. no doubt. I came in knowing no french at all. I still no none and I "get by," but im definitely uncomfortable a lot of the time. If you dont speak french and you like McGill, then take french classes religiously (and do your homework every day) and learn the language. If you dont plan on being able to speak conversational french by 1 1/2 years into med school, then DON'T go to McGill.

 

Also, McGill is very tough on evaluations of 3rd and 4th years. They basically only give the "superior" or "honors" to about 1-2 students per rotation, if any. The dean has set a mandate to all clerkship coordinators to give 80% "Meets Expectations" or "Pass", about 5% "Below Expectations," and about 10-15% "Exceeds Expectations." 0-3% of the class will get "Superior" in any particular rotation. Obviously it also depends on your attending, some dont give it out at all b/c they dont believe in it, other are just a little angry at their life b/c they make 40% less than the rest of canada and may take it out on you. I've tried to steer clear of this myself, but I've known others that got royally screwed for just existing at time when an attending is in a bad mood. It's not the faculty's fault, its just how the atmosphere is here. just beware of mcgill.

[SpanishFly]

I'm curious...did you get in to u of T or not?

[PlnA]

Hey! In the end, I got into both, actually. It's great and I am really lucky to have a choice between these two schools.

 

To be honest, I am still trying to decide. None of this hesitation is based entirely on ranking or reputation or curriculum alone. More of a combination of personal issues.

 

Guess learning French isn't such a bad idea. After all, we will have to serve the francophone population. I know many of them personally who will prefer to have his/her doctor talk to them in their mother tongue. Guess it's a problem for us anglophones but good physicians learn to accomodate their patients. (More easily said than done, I know...)

 

Does anyone knows about the clerkship years at U of T, could you let me know? How much hand-on experience do you end up getting?

 

Hope everyone has a great summer! congrats to everyone who are attending and good luck to everyone who will~!

[spider]

Really? You're deciding past the deadline for acceptances. I've never heard that done before. Are you sure you were admitted by UofT?

 

Hey! In the end, I got into both, actually. It's great and I am really lucky to have a choice between these two schools.

 

To be honest, I am still trying to decide. None of this hesitation is based entirely on ranking or reputation or curriculum alone. More of a combination of personal issues.

 

Guess learning French isn't such a bad idea. After all, we will have to serve the francophone population. I know many of them personally who will prefer to have his/her doctor talk to them in their mother tongue. Guess it's a problem for us anglophones but good physicians learn to accomodate their patients. (More easily said than done, I know...)

 

Does anyone knows about the clerkship years at U of T, could you let me know? How much hand-on experience do you end up getting?

 

Hope everyone has a great summer! congrats to everyone who are attending and good luck to everyone who will~!

[PlnA]

Really? You're deciding past the deadline for acceptances. I've never heard that done before. Are you sure you were admitted by UofT?

 

 

yeah... maybe they sent me the acceptance letter by mistake. I'll check up on that:p . McGill's decision was mailed way earlier and the deposit is refundable. Even if it is not, how do you think waitlist movements move until school starts?

...with that said, it's still better to decide sooner, I know. More mind-settling for everyone

[jingles]

Where did you end up going?!?! I am super curious. I am having this EXACT same dilemma. McGill acceptance and U of T interview invite. Thread was super helpful but slightly outdated? Any new insight?

 

 

yeah... maybe they sent me the acceptance letter by mistake. I'll check up on that:p . McGill's decision was mailed way earlier and the deposit is refundable. Even if it is not, how do you think waitlist movements move until school starts?

...with that said, it's still better to decide sooner, I know. More mind-settling for everyone