How much do dentists make on average in say Ontario?

[Visceral]

I think it's all a balance. I don't think there is anything wrong with money being one consideration. With significant educational costs, time not working and then responsibility while practicing, an above average salary expectation is justified.

 

However, it should not be the ultimate nor only factor. There exists a fundamental conflict of interest in dentistry where the dentist diagnoses and makes a treatment plan and is also the financial beneficiary. Therefore, it is conceivable that a dentist whose primary motive is money would provide compromised treatment to the patient for self-gain (overtreating, charging inappropriate codes etc.) This does happen.

 

So well I understand much said on this forum is a joke, criticism for those who view dentistry as a route to a nice house/car is justified because ultimately if that's all that is driving someone, patients will likely suffer.

 

Anyways, realistically, it's difficult to filter these people out and I know there are some in my class for certain so you just hope the best for them in the end, and their patients.

[Arnie]

A wise sage once remarked "mo money mo problems".

 

You are admonished so that you may take heed.

[xylem29]

And what about those who have money as their primary motivation to enter a profession but who also practices as close as is practically possible within the professional standards set by the governing body that regulates said profession?

 

So it's possible for you to become a dentist b/c you know they make lots of money and live relatively comfortable lifestyles, but you wouldn't compromise your patients b/c that would violate the ethical and professional regulations. You want to be the best darned dentist that you can be, and that means putting patients first. But you enter it in the first place b/c of the great pay.

 

I don't think that the above is an impossible scenario!

[xylem29]

A wise sage once remarked "mo money mo problems".

 

You are admonished so that you may take heed.

 

Yep - that's true.

[xylem29]

I think it's all a balance. I don't think there is anything wrong with money being one consideration. With significant educational costs, time not working and then responsibility while practicing, an above average salary expectation is justified.

 

However, it should not be the ultimate nor only factor. There exists a fundamental conflict of interest in dentistry where the dentist diagnoses and makes a treatment plan and is also the financial beneficiary. Therefore, it is conceivable that a dentist whose primary motive is money would provide compromised treatment to the patient for self-gain (overtreating, charging inappropriate codes etc.) This does happen.

 

So well I understand much said on this forum is a joke, criticism for those who view dentistry as a route to a nice house/car is justified because ultimately if that's all that is driving someone, patients will likely suffer.

 

Anyways, realistically, it's difficult to filter these people out and I know there are some in my class for certain so you just hope the best for them in the end, and their patients.

 

Man, it's conceivable for anybody doing any job to compromise patients, students, customers, etc for some self-gain whether it's due to greed or "I'm too lazy to clean the forks according to guidelines" or "meh, the food handlers regulations are take too long"....

[Visceral]

And what about those who have money as their primary motivation to enter a profession but who also practices as close as is practically possible within the professional standards set by the governing body that regulates said profession?

 

So it's possible for you to become a dentist b/c you know they make lots of money and live relatively comfortable lifestyles, but you wouldn't compromise your patients b/c that would violate the ethical and professional regulations. You want to be the best darned dentist that you can be, and that means putting patients first. But you enter it in the first place b/c of the great pay.

 

I don't think that the above is an impossible scenario!

 

 

The first and second personalities are not the same. I am not going to waste explaining all the ethical issues at play here but the second would be an ideal dentist and actually puts patients firs. The former isn't and uses risk management as reason not to cheat patients. Often, these guys cheat patients in the end because you are dealing with a vulnerable population and there is a power imbalance.

 

I won't even dignify the second post with a response - just consider what being a health care professional entails.

 

If you ever make it into dental school, perhaps your ethics/professionalism professors will explain this all to you.

[xylem29]

The first and second personalities are not the same. I am not going to waste explaining all the ethical issues at play here but the second would be an ideal dentist and actually puts patients firs. The former isn't and uses risk management as reason not to cheat patients. Often, these guys cheat patients in the end because you are dealing with a vulnerable population and there is a power imbalance.

 

I won't even dignify the second post with a response - just consider what being a health care professional entails.

 

If you ever make it into dental school, perhaps your ethics/professionalism professors will explain this all to you.

 

Well, you're taking my posts a little too personally - you didn't have to resort to talking down to me like that. Where's your humility man? So I'm not on par with your intellect...wait, yep, I just remembered, you have every right to feel as if you're above me if my mind isn't as advanced as yours.

[topdog1]

Dude, I hope you're joking.

Was my comment so ridiculous that you even had to create an account to mention it?

I know that my reason for choosing dentistry is not money, but I don't think I would have chosen this path if dentists make $8/hr.

valid point, a fair income for your hard work is only fair

but driving a bmw to impress your grandchildren hardly seems respectable

even if you are joking

[xylem29]

valid point, a fair income for your hard work is only fair

but driving a bmw to impress your grandchildren hardly seems respectable

even if you are joking

 

Of course that's not respectable, you can only impress them with something like a rolls royce or a maserati.

[jayjaejai]

Of course that's not respectable, you can only impress them with something like a rolls royce or a maserati.

 

hahaha, I agree.

Topdog - are you planning on riding a bike to your clinic then?

[Visceral]

Well, you're taking my posts a little too personally - you didn't have to resort to talking down to me like that. Where's your humility man? So I'm not on par with your intellect...wait, yep, I just remembered, you have every right to feel as if you're above me if my mind isn't as advanced as yours.

 

I possess humility. I didn't want to waste my time because addressing that point could deserve an article in a dental journal and I don't have an hour to spend.

 

Your second point seemed sarcastic to me, but perhaps you were serious and tone is difficult to convey over the internet.

 

Anyways, here's a bunch of articles about dentistry, professionalism and the role in society dentists play. These should give you an idea of where I am coming from.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18232578?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17314381?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15363212?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15473943?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15473943?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14664257?ordinalpos=18&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991469?ordinalpos=25&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Dwayner2]

In summary, no one on this site has a clue how much dentists make.

 

Of particular interest we have "stef" incorporating student loan payments in to income (WTF?) and others reading websites quoting 55-90/yr (sure you're not looking up dental hygienists, buddy?---these are NOT dentists!).

 

dentists working 4 days a week make greater than 100k/yr no matter the location.

 

For those 2012'ers, don't sweat it you'll be able to pay off your 300k ubc school loan.

 

QUIT WIGGING OUT. Once you're in you're set up...life is good.

[celeron_266]

dentists working 4 days a week make greater than 100k/yr no matter the location.

 

For those 2012'ers, don't sweat it you'll be able to pay off your 300k ubc school loan.

haha i really hope so...especially when i am starting to worry about how to pay for my tuition (dont want to use LOC until its absolutely necessary)

[lanvin2356]

was there ever a definitive answer?

[koft]

NO, it depends on what is your patient base, and your skill level! There is a wide range..

________

DC MEDICAL MARIJUANA

[PazzoDDS]

Hey guys:

 

My mom's a dentist and she definately doens't make that much money as the "average" they list...

 

The majority of the problem is the high overhead costs, and paying staff etc..

 

for example a cleaning is 150$...but its around 35$/hr just the hygienist, another 10-20$/receptionist, assistants, the rent, the equipment etc...

 

Realistically anywhere from 50-90k$....but that's working overtime and spending probably over 60hrs a week.

 

This is the most incredible post I have ever heard. Firstly, in a normal practice, just the hygiensits' billings more or less cover all of the office expenses (and then some!) I.E ...If the practice bills a million, the hygiene dept. should bill ~350k which will pay just about all the office overhead. DDS restorative production would be the "gravy" Mind you, this would be the ideal practice....or a very well run practice.

 

With respect to the practice this person above is talking about, I ask...Is the Dentist not doing any dentistry ?If your hygienist is pumping out $150/hr and the average DDS is kicking out $300/hr how the heck can you only make 50 thousand dollars/yr ? Average hygienists make $40 - $50k a yr!

 

My impression is that this poster is either grossly misinformed wrt the dental economics of this particular practice or perhaps her mother is not really a dentist but in a hygienist who owns a hygiene "practice". There is no way in hell any established dentist will only make $90k/yr. If this lady is in fact a dentist she'd be better off doing all of the hygiene services herself instead of having the hygienists work.....even in this case she'd still make well over $100k.

Bottom line.......don't listen to the doom and gloom of dentistry. Most people don't know what the f$%^ they're talking about . Either ask a dentist how great the profession is . Your DDS will tell you how much he makes ...just ask him next time you're in the office.

[stefanci]

This is the most incredible post I have ever heard. Firstly, in a normal practice, just the hygiensits' billings more or less cover all of the office expenses (and then some!) I.E ...If the practice bills a million, the hygiene dept. should bill ~350k which will pay just about all the office overhead. DDS restorative production would be the "gravy" Mind you, this would be the ideal practice....or a very well run practice.

 

With respect to the practice this person above is talking about, I ask...Is the Dentist not doing any dentistry ?If your hygienist is pumping out $150/hr and the average DDS is kicking out $300/hr how the heck can you only make 50 thousand dollars/yr ? Average hygienists make $40 - $50k a yr!

 

My impression is that this poster is either grossly misinformed wrt the dental economics of this particular practice or perhaps her mother is not really a dentist but in a hygienist who owns a hygiene "practice". There is no way in hell any established dentist will only make $90k/yr. If this lady is in fact a dentist she'd be better off doing all of the hygiene services herself instead of having the hygienists work.....even in this case she'd still make well over $100k.

Bottom line.......don't listen to the doom and gloom of dentistry. Most people don't know what the f$%^ they're talking about . Either ask a dentist how great the profession is . Your DDS will tell you how much he makes ...just ask him next time you're in the office.

 

 

She's a really a dentist. 50,000$ around after taxes and expenses during the start-up years from a 0 patient base (new business). Then upwards the years after.

[slick90210]

In 2007 the American Dental Association posted GD's average salary and it was $168000, and if you owned your own practice, $194000.

[koft]

Start up is different. but once the practice is on track income is not an issue.

________

Ford model 91

[Simon]

How long does it take to go from startup to established? Does this depend on location? (I mean within a city: like, located in a mall, wealthy area, or bad area, etc)

[stefanci]

In 2007 the American Dental Association posted GD's average salary and it was $168000, and if you owned your own practice, $194000.

 

Yeah, well in Canada its 300,000$ + easily....

 

but you dont get to keep all of that...take away expenses and taxes, and you're left with a lot less than youd want to.

[ADD101]

fyi: according to ADA, its $198,350 for a general practitioner and $304,020 for a specialist in the US and thats after removing expenses but b4 taxes (http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/faq.asp)...without removing the expenses it is $660,640 for a general practitioner and $882,320 for a specialist... the canadian numbers should probably be similar or a little higher since the dentist to population ratio is lower in canada so there's more demand...

[stefanci]

fyi: according to ADA, its $198,350 for a general practitioner and $304,020 for a specialist in the US and thats after removing expenses but b4 taxes (http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/faq.asp)...without removing the expenses it is $660,640 for a general practitioner and $882,320 for a specialist... the canadian numbers should probably be similar or a little higher since the dentist to population ratio is lower in canada so there's more demand...

 

go do dentistry and find the truth for yourself

[jayjaejai]

Are there any dentists in this forum to clear things out for us?

[unknown user 7]

Hmm...$200 K seems a bit high for an "average," but that's my opinion.