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November 4, 2008 - Historic Election Night Reaction Thread!


The Law

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The thing is, as far as I could tell, none of the parties in this go round had any sort of plan for fixing the health care system short of "We'll hire more doctors and nurses!"

 

If Canadian parties really want to get people excited about politics in Canada, they need to start electing leaders with charisma.

 

I agree, more charismatic leaders would help; however, your argument is turned on it's head. It is not the government's job to get citizens excited about an election. It is our job to educate ourselves and vote for the best party that suits our personal preferences.

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No, its not the government's job to get us excited, and I personally did a bunch of research before deciding who to vote for in my riding (suffice to say, it wasn't Rob Anders).

 

I'm going to say that the American Republican party is more right wing than any of the parties in Canada, Conservatives included.

 

From left to right, I see it like:

 

NDP----Liberal---Democrat--Conservative----Republican

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No, its not the government's job to get us excited, and I personally did a bunch of research before deciding who to vote for in my riding (suffice to say, it wasn't Rob Anders).

 

I'm going to say that the American Republican party is more right wing than any of the parties in Canada, Conservatives included.

 

From left to right, I see it like:

 

NDP----Liberal---Democrat--Conservative----Republican

 

I would have to partially disagree, I think the conservatives and republicans are closer than that.

they are both part of the International Democrat Union, which means they both stand for the same "christian, conservative values", however, the canadian cons are in a minority so they cant really express those "values". if by any misfortune they obtain a majority, i think we would better see what they truely stand for.

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I would have to partially disagree, I think the conservatives and republicans are closer than that.

they are both part of the International Democrat Union, which means they both stand for the same "christian, conservative values", however, the canadian cons are in a minority so they cant really express those "values". if by any misfortune they obtain a majority, i think we would better see what they truely stand for.

 

Agreed AMmd. I don't think many people know/realize that Harper was a fundamental figure in the old Reform Party of Canada---which is very similar to the Republican Party. Don't kid youreslves that Harper's values don't closely align with Republican values. We are just fortunate that we have had two minority governments to tie his hands; but unfortunate that they now have more seats!

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Agreed AMmd. I don't think many people know/realize that Harper was a fundamental figure in the old Reform Party of Canada---which is very similar to the Republican Party. Don't kid youreslves that Harper's values don't closely align with Republican values. We are just fortunate that we have had two minority governments to tie his hands; but unfortunate that they now have more seats!

 

Indeed, he's been forced to rule as a moderate because Canadians will not elect him otherwise. I agree with you that I wish we could talk more about Canadian politics - but the fact of the matter is, our politicans are the most unimaginative, non-daring, non-innovative people we could have! I am a huge follower of all politics and in fact, I have actively campaigned for Canadian candidates in previous elections. I was very close to not voting, however, in this year's Canadian elections (I did end up voting, but it was merely out of my disdain for the conservative's potential to obtain a majority).

 

I disagree with your assesment that it is not the government's job to excite the people. The government is our medium for change and progress, if they are not able to be the effectors of the goals we are looking to achieve, why would we be excited? Why would we care if we don't even believe in our leaders or are not being presented with options that we are embracing? Look at Barack Obama in the United States, of course, he is charismatic... but it's more than that. He has substance to his character. He inspires them and makes them believe that he can accomplish what they need. His thinking is so different from US political orthodoxy. This is something absent from Canadian politics. We are simply recycling the same figures and ideas over and over again and have not seen any daring leaders. I think Canadian politics could be exciting, but only if we had some really exciting leaders come to the fold. It looks like the next Liberal leadership race is going to be another battle between the same figures in the party.

 

 

 

Now, returning to our regularly scheduled programming:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=1

I prefer this political map to the CNN one. ;):cool:

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lol...i dont see how you can say harper is worst than palin-mccain... mccain wants to stop funding research...palin wants roev wade overturned... they think the supreme court is too democratic while saying they wouldnt use a litmus test (however strongly hint at it being someone to overturn previous supreme court decisions)...

 

harper on the other hand, loves power, and will do anything to stay in power, like all other politicians, and that means pleasing the people aka...do what the majority want... even if he got a majority, he wouldnt dare privatizing medicine (this isnt a privatizing debate, im just saying, cause he used to be for it, now that hes in power, and the majority like the public system, he supports it)....

 

lol...all that, i should note, i dont like harper, but i got to defend him when hes put as 'worst' than mccain-palin...

 

as for Harper-reform party/alliance party of canada and the progressive conservative union... even though it can be seen that "harper took over the parties, and mckay sold out out the pc's"...a lot of the party aparatus is that of the pc's, the deal was, harper would be in charge... thats why he cant do anything too extreme even in his own party...the progressive conservatives will defect if he does...

 

as for duceppe again...people in bc wanted to vote for him...hell i would have too...hes soo good cause hes been in the game so long (and to a lesser extent harper...when the times are tough, u stick too it)...aka...the problems with the liberals... he suffer a small defeat and u run for the hills...have bob the ndp rae undermining you, while ignatieff also undermining you...meanwhile those two hate each other...ahahahahah...what a cluster ****....then theres kennedy...the only reason hes even "up there" cause he helped dion win...hes got no other bargaining chip....who switches leadership so many times? what a bunch of clowns (im more or less a liberal fyi)... they can only win with whats tested and true for canada...fiscal conservative, social liberal...

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I would have to partially disagree, I think the conservatives and republicans are closer than that.

they are both part of the International Democrat Union, which means they both stand for the same "christian, conservative values", however, the canadian cons are in a minority so they cant really express those "values". if by any misfortune they obtain a majority, i think we would better see what they truely stand for.

 

Fair enough, I think I'm too young to remember an ACTUAL Conservative government.

 

We need a fresh face in Canadian politics, someone like Obama, who is an inspiring speaker and really holds the country's best interests at heart - down with election promises!

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We need a fresh face in Canadian politics, someone like Obama, who is an inspiring speaker and really holds the country's best interests at heart - down with election promises!

 

I am surprised that in a diverse country like Canada, the political environment is still relatively homogenous. Say what you may, but even Canada would have issues with a visible minority as PM.

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Indeed, he's been forced to rule as a moderate because Canadians will not elect him otherwise. I agree with you that I wish we could talk more about Canadian politics - but the fact of the matter is, our politicans are the most unimaginative, non-daring, non-innovative people we could have! I am a huge follower of all politics and in fact, I have actively campaigned for Canadian candidates in previous elections. I was very close to not voting, however, in this year's Canadian elections (I did end up voting, but it was merely out of my disdain for the conservative's potential to obtain a majority).

 

I disagree with your assesment that it is not the government's job to excite the people. The government is our medium for change and progress, if they are not able to be the effectors of the goals we are looking to achieve, why would we be excited? Why would we care if we don't even believe in our leaders or are not being presented with options that we are embracing? Look at Barack Obama in the United States, of course, he is charismatic... but it's more than that. He has substance to his character. He inspires them and makes them believe that he can accomplish what they need. His thinking is so different from US political orthodoxy. This is something absent from Canadian politics. We are simply recycling the same figures and ideas over and over again and have not seen any daring leaders. I think Canadian politics could be exciting, but only if we had some really exciting leaders come to the fold. It looks like the next Liberal leadership race is going to be another battle between the same figures in the party.

 

 

 

Now, returning to our regularly scheduled programming:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=1

I prefer this political map to the CNN one. ;):cool:

 

Law, you make good points, and on some level I agree with most of them (after all we have the same alma mater!). However, American politics and candidates do not exist in a vacuum; The American media has a tendency to sensationalize, and this has a lot to do with the 'excitement' around these elections (not to discredit Obama and McCain). The government that we have is largely a product of Canadian political apathy; the parties don't change because they don't NEED to. If citizens pressured the government, they would change pretty darn fast.

 

It is a misconception that the government needs to inspire us----we need to inspire the government! They are elected by us, for us---to represent us. If you want to see change, then you need to give the government the political will to change.

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I am surprised that in a diverse country like Canada, the political environment is still relatively homogenous. Say what you may, but even Canada would have issues with a visible minority as PM.

 

Definitely!

 

Law, you make good points, and on some level I agree with most of them (after all we have the same alma mater!). However, American politics and candidates do not exist in a vacuum; The American media has a tendency to sensationalize, and this has a lot to do with the 'excitement' around these elections (not to discredit Obama and McCain). The government that we have is largely a product of Canadian political apathy; the parties don't change because they don't NEED to. If citizens pressured the government, they would change pretty darn fast.

 

It is a misconception that the government needs to inspire us----we need to inspire the government! They are elected by us, for us---to represent us. If you want to see change, then you need to give the government the political will to change.

 

Woo, purple pride! :D

 

I agree the American media does sensationalize quite a bit, but as you also pointed out - the US does have some exciting figures. I guess we can agree that it's partly due to the apathy of Canadians and also partly due to failure of Canadian leadership. I wish that Canadians got to elect their party nominees like the Americans do, that would potentially make things more exciting. I also wish we had some new leadership! It's surprising that among all these potentially great leaders, there is nobody out there who is as inspiring or motivational as some of the American candidates! I really would love to see things change, maybe we should run for office ourselves? Haha... but anyway, it sure makes it a lot easier to create an energetic movement when you have leaders who are listening and acting!

 

It's like a self-perpetuating cycle. On one end you have lack of exciting leadership, on the other, you have failure to effect any change due to voter apathy. The two feed on each other and we are caught in a stalemate! We (like John McCain) need a gamechanger!

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Definitely!

 

 

 

Woo, purple pride! :D

 

I agree the American media does sensationalize quite a bit, but as you also pointed out - the US does have some exciting figures. I guess we can agree that it's partly due to the apathy of Canadians and also partly due to failure of Canadian leadership. I wish that Canadians got to elect their party nominees like the Americans do, that would potentially make things more exciting. I also wish we had some new leadership! It's surprising that among all these potentially great leaders, there is nobody out there who is as inspiring or motivational as some of the American candidates! I really would love to see things change, maybe we should run for office ourselves? Haha... but anyway, it sure makes it a lot easier to create an energetic movement when you have leaders who are listening and acting!

 

It's like a self-perpetuating cycle. On one end you have lack of exciting leadership, on the other, you have failure to effect any change due to voter apathy. The two feed on each other and we are caught in a stalemate! We (like John McCain) need a gamechanger!

 

Agreed. Frustration in the Nation.

 

I nominate 'The Law' for PM

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Palin On Democrats: "Do They Think The Terrorists ... Are The Good Guys?" (from a speech today in Missouri)

 

"What do they think? Do they think that the terrorists have all of a sudden become the good guys, and changed their minds? No! The terrorists still seek to destroy America and her allies and all that it is that is that we stand for: Freedom, tolerance, equality."

 

Thanks for that.

Really, I've always stood against freedom, tolerance, and equality myself (hence my opposition to Palin and my "General Terrorism Fanclub - Ontario Chapter").

 

/yeesh.

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Palin On Democrats: "Do They Think The Terrorists ... Are The Good Guys?" (from a speech today in Missouri)

 

 

 

Thanks for that.

Really, I've always stood against freedom, tolerance, and equality myself (hence my opposition to Palin and my "General Terrorism Fanclub - Ontario Chapter").

 

/yeesh.

 

 

 

You know it's game over for them when...

 

1103b_mainchart.png

 

lol... who wants to come watch the election @ law's house! haha

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the law - I seriously don't get your fascination with america. I swear if you get into med school here and then move down to the US, I am personally going to make it my life mission to hunt you down and make you pay back all the money the canadian government invested in you.

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the law - I seriously don't get your fascination with america. I swear if you get into med school here and then move down to the US, I am personally going to make it my life mission to hunt you down and make you pay back all the money the canadian government invested in you.

 

you dont have to worry about that, he's never getting into med. :D

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the law - I seriously don't get your fascination with america. I swear if you get into med school here and then move down to the US, I am personally going to make it my life mission to hunt you down and make you pay back all the money the canadian government invested in you.

 

They'd never let him in there, he's a terrorist.;)

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No, I am not a gay terrorist... :eek:

 

To answer dan's question (on behalf of everyone who is following this election), I'm a big fan of international politics, as are many of the others on this website. The United States is one of the most powerful and influential nations in the world and for the first time ever, we have someone who can help us make progress on an international level. Like the others who are following the US election so closely, I find this really exciting and empowering. Not to mention, whatever happens in the US will have a direct effect on the planet and our own country. ;)

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