I HATE Medical School

[Guest E Coli]

Yes, we've all said it from time to time, but for me I'm not chalking this up to temporary fatigue or fashionable self-doubt. I'm serious. Does anyone know how to defraud on loans by escaping with minimal repercussions? If I quit know, I can try to get my old job back at Costco's pushing around carts. Great job...no patient contact, good hours...the lifestyle's great! One problem, though...I would go broke paying the interest on my loan (don't even mention the principal). Does anyone have a Plan B after quitting med school? Come on, I know others have thought of this too? Any advice?

[Guest strider2004]

what don't you like?

[Guest PeterHill0501]

My wife considered quitting several times...she owed about 100K at the time she was entering her first year of residency...we did the financial calculation...you would have to leave and get a pretty damn good job to be able to afford to pay back your loan and also pay to live. At the time she considered quitting, she was paying about $500 interest per month at a rate of prime plus one...if she quit, the payment would have close to doubled (i.e., you have to start paying back principle as well). Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), at the end of our analysis, she decided that it wasn't affordable to quit! The good news is, this incentive caused her to finish and she finds working life extremely satisfying.

 

Let's face it, medical school and residency are both inevitabitly two of the most difficult things you will do in your life. Keep your head up...once the fatigue dissipates you'll feel like a human being again. Remember that, in the grand scheme of things, this time of your life is only a very short interval...once you're finished you will have a career that is extremely flexible, interesting and the pay isn't bad either if you don't count the hours you've put into school/residency/call.

 

Having watched my wife progress through this sometimes horrific training regimen I sincerely sympathize with how you must be feeling. I remember my wife getting up in the morning feeling nauseated...with major headaches...only to go back to bed for another 7 hours...and then off to work once again (she was in an obs/gyn residency).

 

Now that she has finished she is a completely different person...keep your head up...there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Peter

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah . . . considering how much in debt I am I'm kind of worried that if I don't like things in 3rd year when I finally get to hit the wards on a consistent basis I'm screwed. . . I love this stuff now but you never know what the future holds. I find it amazing that "almost no-one" doesn't make it through. . . it would be completely natural to have some people get to 3rd/4th year and decide they want to do something else. I wonder how many people decide they don't want to practice medicine after completing the 4 years but feel obliged to practice just to pay off the debts?

[Guest Ibraheem]

think about how hard it took you get into med school.... if you keep on going upto the end i know anyone can do it...... take my advice and stay it.... then you will get more than enough money to pay of your loans!

[Guest UWOMED2005]

It shouldn't be the thought of the money at the end that keeps you in.

 

I think every med student goes through periods where they hate medicine - particularly first and second year where you're stuck in the same lecture hall for hours on end. . . there is also a lot of BS you have to put up with - sometimes medicine has a real "busting your balls" or "I had to do it so this newbie should have to do it" kind of attitude. And actually, the thing that makes me question my desire the most is when I see the system isn't doing what it is supposed to do, and when I get exposed to info like the fact adverse drug reactions (caused by physicians themselves!) are something like the fourth leading cause of death now.

 

On the whole, my clinical experiences have taught me that this is the right career for me. But what if they hadn't? What if I was one of those people who had been pushed in to meds by me parents? Or delusional notions of salary and accompanying lifestyle? Or what if they just plain thought they had and idea of what medicine was about when they applied and liked that but found the truth to be altogether different? E coli has a valid point.

 

Take this scenario - a med student decides after first year that medicine that it isn't the career for them. They are $30,000 in debt. What do they do? Finish second year, then third year hoping clerkship will change their mind? Then they would have $90,000 in debt they have to worry about! Just commit to second year and see after that? That's $60,000 of debt. If they decide to complete the degree, they could owe anywhere from $100k-$120k. . . a lot of money to pay off if you decide you truly hate medicine enough that you never practice.

 

Perhaps the worst thing that could happen is you complete your medical degree and residency knowing full well you despise it. Depending on your specialty choice, you could be in late 30s to mid 40s by the time you can start over. And the last thing the healthcare system needs is a disgruntled physician who is only practicing because they got stuck after making a bad choice in their early twenties.

 

Once you pay your first tuition installment you'd better be DAMN sure medicine is what you want, with ALL that entails. Because unless your parents are paying the tuition, you're pretty much stuck.

 

As for the money being able to pay it back the loans. . . yeah, that is true. But how long it takes is another matter, and one that depends somewhat on specialty choice and life decisions. Particularly if you want to own a house and raise a family, you could be well into the forties before you pay it back. So if your visions of life after medical school included having the money to go on ski trips to Vail and surf trips to Hawaii where you got to party with the girls from Blue Crush (sorry, just saw that movie last night!) think again. More realistic is thinking that you'll pay your med school debts in time to have enough money to pay your kid's tuition.

[Guest toothy]

I know I'm a lowly dents student but my impression is that there are many options for meds students, starting with residency. Doesn't the research stream provide more stable hours with less patient contact? I mean, you can also teach, work as consultants in private companies, or combine meds training with another degree (law, engineering) to expand to other occupations.

 

I'm paying higher tuitions than meds students, and I just know there is no way I'm going to throw this away even after I drill a pile of mush during a practical exam. If you think meds isn't for you and you want to quit, you better be sure you know what IS for you. Quitting because of transient stress and setbacks is a bad idea.

[Guest Praeludium]

So you were originally asking about 2nd plans after quitting? NOt that I'm planning on quitting, I love med! But here are two ideas for you:

 

1. Make a computer program that has tons of medical scenarios with options of what to do. This loads up every time you turn on your computer, so for GPs, med students, or whoever who want to keep up with their Dx skills, it will keep you on your toes.

 

2. Make a board game like trivial pursuit, except, of course, it's med orientated. Call it "Rounds." And there'd be different difficulty catagories like "med student," "resident," "department chief." You get to pick which question difficulty and advance according to whether you get the question right or not.

 

Then you sell these ideas to Microsoft, or Parker Brothers, sit back, and watch the dough come rolling in from the royalties, and feel free to push around carts at Costco for fun as a part time job.

[Guest MayFlower1]

Praeludium,

 

You're too funny...ha ha...although, the board game IS a good idea!

 

Peter

[Guest UofCMeds2005]

First, I think you should talk to the your program advisors or your faculty. UofC is really supportive of their students and forces balance on us at every turn. (It is near impossible not to like med school here b/c it is a non-stressful blast). But, seriously you should talk to them - they have probably seen it before and will be able to give you advice. I remember a student in my program did not feel challenged enough by med school (if I should be so lucky) and therefore did not like it - they told him something that I think is pretty sound. Basically, it does really mean anything if you don't enjoy the first two years of med school. What really matters is if you like clerkship and beyond. Some of the worst students or most uninterested students end up being the best and happiest doctors. I don't know- I am not sure what stage you are at at this point, but I think you should hang in there and as the dentist said - explore your options and find your niche. Medicine is a huge profession with millions of options. Also, if you don't like patients (which probably isn't very good) you can always go into a speciality with low patient contact like radiology...

[Guest me maniac]

UofCMeds2005,

 

are you joking or serious about Calgary being a non-stressfull blast? I would be ecstatic if I were admitted to Calgary, but have to admit I am somewhat aprehensive about the workload/stress thing (having a family and all). It sure wouldn't stop me from what I really want to do, I just want to be realistic about what I'm getting into. What about residency? I'm sure THAT's not non-stress!

 

I would appreciate any comments from any current med students.

 

me

[Guest UofCMeds2005]

I am being completely honest. I have not been stressed a single day since I have been here. We have an amazing program. The teaching here is phenonmenal - by the time you get to the exam you have lectured, watched a patient presentation, Physical examined, smalled grouped and rounded at the hopsital on so many patients that you really don't need to study that much. Don't get me wrong people here work hard, but we work hard together and help each other out. UofC really is a non-stressful non-competitive blast. I wake up in the morning super excited to study every day b/c med school is so fun. Infact I have a physcian exam cumulative year exam next week and I am looking fwd to practicing all weekend - so I can hang out with my friends... No matter what med school you go to you will make great friends and you will have to study and work hard. UofC really promotes balance and most students here attempt it. Will residence be tough - obviously. But, I really think uofc will prepare me well and I am looking fwd to the Challenge. I am just glad I am having such a great and relaxing time now.

[Guest UofCMeds2005]

Also, many people in my class and above have families. Some even have long distance families. So, it can be done. Those individuals tend to view med schools as a 9-5pm job. We generally only have about 4 hours of class a day-not including hospital/patient stuff. So, those people stay on campus and study until 5pm and then go home to their family. Many people in my class also work as nurses etc. during their off time. We have a lot of free time.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

That's not the experience at UWO - we have a lot more class hours and the idea of working a job while in med schools is kind of ridiculous here! But I have a number of classmates who live stress-free lives. A lot depends on personality types. . . some med students notice the fact that you almost certainly won't fail out, you'll probably get a residency you like (unless you really want something competitive,) and relax. Others have been psyched out (possibly by the admissions process ) and constantly search for ways that they will be screwed. . . second guessing the exams aren't going to kills you, second guessing the fact percentile marks aren't recorded, second guessing that someone is feeding them misinformation to psych them out of their favourite residency spot, etc.

 

The stress level totally depends on who you are.

[Guest UofCMeds2005]

UofC is pass/fail - no marks at all. That way we can focus on learning - I shadow docs every week.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, we're moving to an entirely P/F curriculum within a few years (I think the class of 2008 will be entirely P/F, the class of 2007 will be H/P/F for 1st year and P/F.) Already clerkship and a few other courses are P/F.

 

The reaction of some students I know reminds me somewhat of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer goes to College. The Dean there is fairly progressive and laidback, yet Homer refuses to see him that way, seeing him as the stereotype of the stodgy old dean out to get the students. The administration of med schools are NOT out to get the students.

 

That's not to say I don't think there's still some inherent stress to med school. The debtload is horrendous, unless you have some magical source of money in your mid-twenties. The hours, if not bad in first and second year, can become horrendous in clerkship. And then there's the odd old-school prof who went to med school when the admin wasn't so progressive, and thinks you should have to "pay the dues" the way he had to. The volume of stuff you need to learn is atrocious. And at the end of the day, patients are putting their lives in your trust. . . while some medical minutiae isn't worth memorizing, you want to make sure you know enough not to, to put it bluntly, kill people. That last bit can definitely be a bit stressful, depending on how you handle things.

[Guest UofCMeds2005]

I agree. I can only speak for myself, but I do study a fair bit. I don't stress about it b/c of the P/F. I don't really have to worry about my marks - just my learning. That is why I like to shadow. UofC students have the no summer disadvantage and our clerkship is a little shorter. So, we have a lot of time build in our program to shadow and a lot of "in class" hospital time. For instance we have a 4 week summer elective - sort of like our summer holiday UofC is just a really laid back med school in general. However, as in any med school there are some super hyper studiers. P/F will never change that

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Agreed. And I think some of them really used "fear of failure" to motivate them before, and continue to do so once they got into meds. I don't think even a "Pass/Pass" system would help some of them. . . they'd probably worry they'd get a pass from the right side of the slash as opposed to the left side of the slash, meaning they might get stuck forever in a residency program in Nunavut specializing in polar-bear dethawing.

[Guest brandonite]

The U of C med students seemed pretty laid back when I saw them for History of Medicine days. I was impressed with your class - you guys seemed like a lot of fun. Of course, not as fun or as laid back as our class here in Manitoba, but we'll give you guys an 'e for effort'.

 

We're also p/f, with the pass rate set at 60%. Nobody's failed yet (fingers crossed). There are a lot of people who study a lot, and some who study very little. I haven't really felt stressed at all yet here, so I have nothing to complain about. I'm sure the work will come, but I'm in no hurry.

 

Anyway. If you are having doubts about medicine, then I would encourage you to get out into the clinic and find out if this really is for you. Set up some shadowing over the summer, and use that to decide. It really helps put all of the classwork in perspective. And remember that medicine is an incredibly wide field - from path/rads with little patient contact to a gp with constant patient contact, from a pure researcher in a university who maybe hasn't seen a patient since med school to a pure clinician. I think there must be a niche for everyone somewhere.

[Guest moo]

hey brandonite, long time no see, how's M1 year treatin you? I've got another week to go and then two weeks of fluff classes (preventive med and medical decision making II) and I'm done!

 

Just so the OP doesn't think I am hijacking his thread, med school is what you make it. There are times when I hate med school too, but I haven't really been stressed for any of our exams, mainly because everything here is strictly P/F and everyone is so relaxed... don't get me wrong, I still want to do well but if I don't, that's fine too. I end up getting about average on exams here.

 

moo

UBC--2002

Northwestern--Feinberg, 2006

Chicago, IL

[Guest Lakers4life]

Hey,

 

UofT is not P/F but H/P/F and as such it can be stressfull at times. Personally, I would hate a P/F system b.c I like having something to aim for, even if I don't get it at least I can try.

 

However thinks med school is some big social blast has cleary not eneterd 3/4th year and beyond; it can be fun but just see how fun you have when you can't rhyme off the answers to the questions they ask you. No one wants to look stupid, at least I would hope.

 

As for your options, there are a lot that haven't been mentioned yet:

 

[a] Get an MBA after meds. You will never have to practise a day in your life, no residency, and you can ge a pharm. job paying about 160k a year. Not great, but still very decent.

 

Try law school after, then goto the US. Malpractise law is huge over there and with an MD you will be the $hit no doubt.

 

[c] Enter academic meds and get you PhD.

 

Clearly opition 1 is the shortest and easiest route and something that I know some people do. Talk to your school and they should give you more deta

[Guest j282]

Since when is 160K not great????

 

How much do you think you will make as a doc after practice expenses?

 

Just curious, what do you consider as a great salary?

[Guest Lakers4life]

I am not saying that on its own a 160k salary is not great, but when taken with the knowledge that you have spent 7-8 yrs in school, along with paying insane tuition for the past 4 years, its not exactly amazing money. On top of that, you aren't acutalyl practising medicine so your 'non-monteary' compensation or moral benefit from helping others is not quite the same either.

 

I have no idea how much money I will be making in the suture since I don't really know what I am going to be doing. I am not money hungry or greedy, but I am quite realistic and 160k in the context of having a 125k debt and 7-8yrs school doesn't sound that amazing too me. Still, it is quite good though.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Floating back to the top.

 

Ian

[Guest Ian Wong]

Floating to the top...

 

Ian