Salary in Family medicine

[Staphed]

Hello,

 

I am in quite a bit of debt... Tuition, coupled with living costs have crippled me. Also, I've decided to enter family medicine.

 

What kind of salary could I expect to make starting out in Ontario, more specifically the Toronto area? Will I have any trouble paying back?

 

Thanks for your help

[leviathan]

Hello,

 

I am in quite a bit of debt... Tuition, coupled with living costs have crippled me. Also, I've decided to enter family medicine.

 

What kind of salary could I expect to make starting out in Ontario, more specifically the Toronto area? Will I have any trouble paying back?

 

Thanks for your help

120k-200k or more...All depends on where you work and how much....hospitalist vs. walk-in clinic vs. locum gigs etc etc.

[lostintime]

Is it true that if you don't have external financial support, you'll have a long way (i.e. many years) before you can start your own practice?

[wtkchen]

Is it true that if you don't have external financial support, you'll have a long way (i.e. many years) before you can start your own practice?

 

you can always join an established group practice, if settling down to one clinic is what you want. They will already have all the staff and infrastructure, you probably just need to pay a say, 30% split of your billings to them for overhead. There are also associateship / partnership arrangements where u may decide to share the cost/risk involved in running the clinic.

 

Most FM graduates do locums or try out in several different clinics/hospital setting/community clinics/etc on different days of the week when they first graduate. It is a good way to explore your interests and learn more about how other docs set up their office / balance their lifestyle.

[leviathan]

Setting up your own practice can be wayyy too much hassle. It's just as easy to become a permanent physician at a clinic and then just take 65%/70% of the billings.

[Staphed]

Well, clearly I know nothing about how to set up a practice.

 

It would be disaster if I tried to do this independently.

 

120-200k is reassuring...

[White-Tiger]

You could do way more than 200k if you are motived do to far away locums, do more ER, obstetrics, etc...

[monkey799]

"120-200k"

 

that is lower than what I have seen in Vancouver family doctors

 

I think most full-time family docs bill around 250k, with overhead at around 40-50%, in an average office.

 

Highest I've seen is 420k - I think that guy does walk in clinics. But that is a lot of patients you have to see (420K / $30 per visit = 14,000 per year)

[wtkchen]

"120-200k"

 

that is lower than what I have seen in Vancouver family doctors

 

I think most full-time family docs bill around 250k, with overhead at around 40-50%, in an average office.

 

Highest I've seen is 420k - I think that guy does walk in clinics. But that is a lot of patients you have to see (420K / $30 per visit = 14,000 per year)

 

the 120k-200k mentioned earlier are the after-overhead numbers

[Staphed]

the 120k-200k mentioned earlier are the after-overhead numbers

 

I guess I should drop out of med school and go to ND school... That way, I could "supplement" my income by selling homeopathy.

[kaymcee]

Before we talk about the money, you have to make sure that family medicine is what you want to do, and nothing else would make you happier. Because, let's face it, the money isn't as good and there's nothing worse than seeing other people do a job you might like for a lot more pay.

 

I was talking to an FP who said he pulls in about $300,000. This is likely gross pay before taxes and overhead, and he does make more than average because he belongs to an FHN (Family Health Network) in Ontario. I figure he gets 150 in his bank account every year. Looking at the Vancouver Island Health Authority, the job postings say billings are 250-300. FPs in smaller communities can make more, say 400-450, due to more procedures and obstetrics added into the mix.

 

You're not going to do as well as your neighbourhood ophthalmologist, but family medicine is where it's at. It's only going to get better with the doctor shortage and the move away from overly compensating those in procedure-based specialties.

[da_birdie]

It's only going to get better with the doctor shortage and the move away from overly compensating those in procedure-based specialties.

 

Unless the government starts letting non-MDs (naturopaths) do a family doctor's job just because it's the cheaper way to do it.

[leviathan]

the 120k-200k mentioned earlier are the after-overhead numbers

That's just a really rough estimate too, based off the FPs I know in the Vancouver area.

[fourtytwo]

PAs will help increase that salary. If they can handle routine stuff, a FP could substantial increase the number of pts seen in a day. Any OHIP (or equivalent) compensation above the PA's salary is pure profit.

[kaymcee]

Unless the government starts letting non-MDs (naturopaths) do a family doctor's job just because it's the cheaper way to do it.

I don't see that happening, despite all the news recently.

[highlander88]

The salary for a family physician can be widely varying.

 

My family physician last year billed over 300,000 to the BC gov't, which surprised me.

 

I also know of two doctors one in Richmond one in Surrey, (suburbs of Vancouver), that bill around 400, and 500,000 respectively.

 

So I think it depends how much you want to put into it for family medicine. I believe in BC the majority of family physicians make around 175-300k, based on gov't statistics, but hundreds earn more than 300k.

[White-Tiger]

Still, assuming he billed for 300k...take 30% off in overhead (which is conservative) and you're left with 210k. Now take off income tax and you're left with 136k in B.C.

[leviathan]

Still, assuming he billed for 300k...take 30% off in overhead (which is conservative) and you're left with 210k. Now take off income tax and you're left with 136k in B.C.

You don't take income tax off when looking at salaries. Everyone has income tax. $210,000 is a pretty good salary, considering the average in BC is what, $30,000? Granted, you will lose more money to income tax than the person with the 30k salary, but overall your discretional income is still far exceeding theirs, which I think is the most important.

 

That said, I don't think the average FP is billing 300k. You'd have to work quite a lot to get that kind of income, unfortunately.

[Jochi1543]

$136,000 a year take-home is a HUGE amount of money. I don't understand what people are complaining about.

[highlander88]

it's not terrible hours though, cause I know my family doctor is never in after 3:30pm for appointments, and usually the earliest he is in is 8 something.

 

to make 500k, you have to work part of the weekends i'm sure, or at least that guy who makes 500k does.

 

but yeah that's why people do specialties because while you have to put in an extra 3,4 or 5 years, you end up with a slightly higher salary possibly, and maybe better hours and less patient turnover. but again, it really comes down to what you want to do with your life, although money is definitely a factor for a lot of people I'm sure

 

 

 

 

You don't take income tax off when looking at salaries. Everyone has income tax. $210,000 is a pretty good salary, considering the average in BC is what, $30,000? Granted, you will lose more money to income tax than the person with the 30k salary, but overall your discretional income is still far exceeding theirs, which I think is the most important.

 

That said, I don't think the average FP is billing 300k. You'd have to work quite a lot to get that kind of income, unfortunately.

[leviathan]

it's not terrible hours though, cause I know my family doctor is never in after 3:30pm for appointments, and usually the earliest he is in is 8 something.

Sure, but is he doing locums on the side that you're not aware of? Does he do a lot more procedures than the average FP? Does he own his own clinic and have other people billing under his name? There are lots of factors that might be making him his 300k in billings.

 

to make 500k, you have to work part of the weekends i'm sure, or at least that guy who makes 500k does.

They must have subspecialty training or something, or have a large business with lots of clinics or patient flow.

[BlackJack]

Leviathan brings up some really good points.

[tooty]

$136,000 a year take-home is a HUGE amount of money.

 

compared to a janitor's salary, yes

[RuralDoc]

Anyone have any input on how the psychiatrist's salary would compare to an FP's salary. While I see adds that say $180 000 and up, I would think a psychiatrist would have far lower overhead and have to see far fewer patients.

 

I am very curious as to whether the take home is the same or higher for a psychiatrist.

[boodog]

it depends on the type of psychiatric practice. those that are hospital based psychiatrists usually have no overhead, and may even be on salary so they may pull in 300 000. some community based psychiatrists have large practices with many other mental health professionals, hence lower overhead, and take home between 200,000 to 300,000. I'd say the typical take home pay for psych is somewhere between 150,000-350,000 depending on the practice and hours worked.