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Success Stories- Non Trad Style!


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I'm so happy that I can finally contribute a success story too!

 

I had always intended to go to medical school, but after undertaking a very challenging undergrad program (double major in applied mathematics and behavioural neuroscience), I found myself with not exactly top grades.

 

After not being accepted right away, I decided to start nursing, thinking it may be a good alternative... but I hated it! It was absolutely awful. How many times was I told "I'm sorry, that's what doctors do" or "it doesn't matter why, that's for the doctors to decide". So, after 2 years, I left the program. I figured that leaving nursing was going to look really bad on my med school application, and my hopes of becoming a doctor were dying.

 

I started a 1-year accelerated Masters program in Mathematics, and figured I'd apply one more time... my MCAT scores were still good after all. It felt good actually, to have a solid back up plan that I would be o.k. with. I could feel my life starting to move forwards, since I would no longer be stuck in the purgatory that is pre-med.

 

But, it's a good thing I applied again, because I got in (fourth time's a charm)!! So now I'll finish up my thesis and course work one week before orientation starts for medical school. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess I'm considered non-traditional....

 

Born and raised in Iraq, finished highschool, got into med school (yes, there it is a 6 year program you attend right after highschool)....when immigration process completed my parents asked me if I wanted to stay complete med school then follow them or leave it all and start over. I was not satisfied with the education or the lifestyle and decided to do it the harder way. Came to canada 5 years ago, had a year off in which I learnt alot!!! worked, volunteered......began university in 2006 ....I just graduated and got into med school :) :) relatives and friends always called me a fool for leaving med school back !!!! But I am waaaaaay happier to get into med school now than I was 6 years ago :):D

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Fellow non-trad who got into Mac!!

Took a year off after high school. Then moved all the way across the country for UG. Wrote and bombed my MCAT in 2007 which made me swear off med school. Did my Masters with the full intention of doing a Ph.D and continuing research/academia. I'll be defending that masters in about a month...wooop!

 

I re-wrote my MCAT in summer 2009 and did okay except for Bio. I applied to Mac to get some experience with the application process before I went full throttle the next year, with a VR=10. Wound up getting an interview and then accepted! Bonus!

 

I only applied to one school. It just goes to show that you only need one.

I also don't have the highest GPA. I went to the maritimes for my UG...they drink lots of beer there...my marks suffered but it was so worth it! You don't need a 4.0! In fact, I wouldnt want one unless I knew that my social life wouldnt suffer.

 

Congrats other non-trads!!! Well deserved!!

 

Sounds like you really hit the jackpot on that one :P. But on a serious note, to the other non-traditionals out there, don't expect to easily pull one of these soon. Work hard!

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  • 9 months later...
And as a future patient I would hope that my physician doesn't use an inappropriate opportunity to preach about their own personal beliefs. This isn't a jesus camp recruiting forum.

 

I'm with MarathonRunner here. Sandman's post, while containing a strong religious theme, did not attempt to assert the superiority of his/her beliefs or denigrate those of others, and I'm not sure where you read anything about "recruiting."

 

Those who reacted strongly may want to consider the underlying reasons, and any past experiences/beliefs of your own that may need to be addressed before you continue as a health care professional.

 

Remember that your patients have a wide range of beliefs and opinions, some of which they may be quite vocal about, and many of which you may disagree with, even strongly.

 

While there may be differences of opinion, it is usually in the interests of both patient and provider to address issues that come up in a respectful, nonjudgmental manner, i.e. not calling their beliefs BS.

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I'm with MarathonRunner here. Sandman's post, while containing a strong religious theme, did not attempt to assert the superiority of his/her beliefs or denigrate those of others, and I'm not sure where you read anything about "recruiting."

 

Those who reacted strongly may want to consider the underlying reasons, and any past experiences/beliefs of your own that may need to be addressed before you continue as a health care professional.

 

Remember that your patients have a wide range of beliefs and opinions, some of which they may be quite vocal about, and many of which you may disagree with, even strongly.

 

While there may be differences of opinion, it is usually in the interests of both patient and provider to address issues that come up in a respectful, nonjudgmental manner, i.e. not calling their beliefs BS.

 

Completely agree. Even if someone says something you don't agree with, that doesn't mean you have to take offense and bat it down. Be mature and realize that you yourself don't have all the answers. Those types of comments do not do anything constructive.

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I'm not offended by yours nor anyone else’s religion. What I am offended by is when people of faith take every opportunity available to them to preach about it. Addressing this point for a second time, you might not see your story as a sermon, but I, and a few other people, obviously did.

 

A person of a different race doesn't constantly bring it up to me and shove it in my face that they are a different color, or gender. You are not being singled out because somehow we managed to find out that you believe something we don’t. You used this as an opportunity to testify how you believe that god has changed your life. I am humbly disagreeing with you. Congratulations on getting into medschool, I sincerely wish you all the best and continued success no matter how it comes to you. However, if you don't want to be faced with differences of opinions, then don't share your own, and never, ever, tell someone what they have a right to be offended about.

ta ta

 

Para D, aren't you doing the same thing though? Just with atheism instead of theism; "preaching" your own belief in what is clearly an adversarial way? Look at your first post in response to Sandman.

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I'm not offended by yours nor anyone else’s religion. What I am offended by is when people of faith take every opportunity available to them to preach about it. Addressing this point for a second time, you might not see your story as a sermon, but I, and a few other people, obviously did.

 

A person of a different race doesn't constantly bring it up to me and shove it in my face that they are a different color, or gender. You are not being singled out because somehow we managed to find out that you believe something we don’t. You used this as an opportunity to testify how you believe that god has changed your life. I am humbly disagreeing with you. Congratulations on getting into medschool, I sincerely wish you all the best and continued success no matter how it comes to you. However, if you don't want to be faced with differences of opinions, then don't share your own, and never, ever, tell someone what they have a right to be offended about.

ta ta

 

-Constantly bringing it up: this is the first time sandman has posted about this, and if you are not talking about him and rather people of that religion in general then that is a pretty harsh stereotype.

 

-humbly: that is the last word which describes the manner you used to present your disagreement

 

-opinions: sandman didn't say he didn't want your opinion, there are just much more respectful ways of presenting opinions. Ways which support discussion and community rather than segregation and superiority.

 

-offence: I was much more offended by your blatant disrespect then anything sandman said. You previously said that you say things on here you wouldn't say to a patient. But the things you say on here are a window into what will go through your mind when talking to a patient and, whether verbalized or not, will affect how you deal with and treat that patient.

 

I have nothing against people offering different opinions and even arguing as long as it is done in a way which does not cut others down. Even very strong opinions can be stated in such a manner that it does not attack an individual/group/sex/whatever. Sometimes a little sensitivity can go a long way.

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-humbly: that is the last word which describes the manner you used to present your disagreement

 

 

Agreed. I have to admit I thought that post (and those that agreed with it) insensitive and rude enough to not warrant a serious reply at first.

 

Whether or not you're atheist or a believer (in whichever religion)...there is no room for those kinds of replies.

 

Did Sandman's post come off as a bit preachy? Perhaps. Was it an inspiring story regardless? Definitely.

 

I'm sorry but, ParaD, I'm surprised you don't see that your reply was entirely inappropriate no matter from which perspective you look.

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Here's Macbook's shot at this hijack:

 

Sandman, good job on getting in. It's just delivered in a style that perhaps some people can appreciate and some can't, but what matters is that your story is inspirational with or without the religion component. In terms of the preachy-ness, yes, I felt that too perhaps took away from the message and tale. Perhaps with your patients as well, I would hope that like with this thread, that you can choose a different style of information delivery that doesn't produce polarized communication...but you probably already know that.

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Yikes! I hope that those of you who get accepted into medical school and go on to become physicians don't treat your patients in such a manner if they state that they are praying for health, or for an ill loved one. Gee. I'd expect a little better from future physicians.

 

wow...exactly what I was thinking!

 

ParaD....I'm shocked at your response and closed mindedness about people's beliefs and thoughts.

 

Here's a thought...what about congratulating sandman on his journey+strength

 

Congrats Sandman...I see nothing wrong in your post! With your life experiences and insight you will without doubt make a remarkable physician that not only can prescribe drugs/treatments, BUT THAT CAN ALSO RELATE TO PEOPLE which is urgently needed in today's medical system!

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I hope the non-trads did well this year!

 

I will be posting my story a bit later.... In the mean time I thought I'd add the other past years threads to this as well.

 

2009: http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33782

2008: http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27099

2007: http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21618

2006: http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13188

 

Other stories: http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33592

http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30034

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Posted this in the U of T accepted thread, but figured this is a better place for future applicants to find.

 

Accepted to U of T St. George campus on May 5th.

GPA = 3.29 (4-year U of T undergrad degree); wGPA = 3.48

MCAT: P=10, V=9, B=13, S (second take; first take was way back in 2004 - the old paper format exam).

Currently in final year of PhD at U of T St. George.

 

Volunteer experience: During undergrad years = hospital (non-clinical), cancer society, mentoring, a summer at hospital overseas; after-school outreach for at-risk youth (went to high-school in the ghettos so I'm able to connect with this demographic)

During grad years = lots of mentoring and science outreach as part of grad student union. No clinical volunteerism during grad school.

 

ECs: very little; played lots of basketball in high-school and undergrad (thought about playing professional basketball at one time - starting point guard for high-school team every year - averaged 16.1 ppg and 6.0 apg; played ball with Steve Nash several years ago) [btw, anyone following the collapse of the Lakers in the playoffs this year?!]

 

Grad school productivity: 3 first author publications in good journals; 2 mid-author publications; 1 first author review article; 1 second author methods paper; lots of presentations and conferences; several graduate funding awards.

 

First off, I wanted to say that it is possible to get into medicine in Canada with a low GPA. For grad applicants, U of T can be very forgiving of poor GPAs provided you sell yourself in other aspects. One thing that is incredibly important for U of T is the personal statement. This really can make or break an applicant - especially grads. You must be able to articulate yourself in such way as to make a big splash (heard this straight from the horse's mouth - I'll leave it at that). Reference letters are also very important - grad applicants - DO MAKE THE EFFORT TO PROVIDE THEM WITH 6 REFERENCES. Deborah had a post on the blog stating that more references will be to your advantage. Don't skimp on your CV as well. I recall there were threads on here debating whether a CV can be too long - that's just silly IMO (no offense to anyone). As long you've got quality material to list, do it, even if you're on your 20th page already! Do organize your CV very professionally and in an easy to digest layout. Deborah has repeatedly mentioned that the entire grad package will be looked at in detail regardless of length. Do NOT sell yourself short!

 

Lastly, for future PhD applicants, U of T is expanding their MD/PhD enrollment and one would think they would also be looking to recruit more PhD grads in to the MD program as well (this is part of their vision to improve evidence-based medicine and the importance of basic research in medicine). As a PhD applicant, you should make the effort to present yourself as a good fit in this context.

 

Good luck to future applicants and congrats to those accepted this year!

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quoting from simpy's thread:

 

In the last week, I've finished my second undergrad degree and have been accepted to medicine. I constantly see people posting both here and in the general forum about whether doing a second degree is the right option, and there really aren't any stickies or any other resources addressing it. I thought posting my experiences might help others down the road.

 

Doing a second undergraduate degree is not a great way to apply to medicine. If you are an applicant who has a GPA that is almost competitive (or better), a second degree is a waste of time. A graduate degree is a much better option because it not only improves your chances of getting into medicine, but it might improve your chances of landing competitive residencies later on.

 

However, if you are an applicant with an uncompetitive GPA in your first degree, a second degree may be your only option. For instance, my GPA through my first four years was a 2.1 - not only was I ineligible at all Canadian (and international for that matter) medical schools, I would not be accepted at any graduate program. To pursue medicine, it was necessary to do a second degree.

 

Doing a second degree to enter medicine is extremely difficult. There is much less room for error than in a first undergrad degree (a bad semester can ruin everything). You will be the odd person out in classes - you'll be the sixth-year student in a first-year class. You will be joining clubs with 17 year-olds. Your friends will find success in their pursuits and you will feel left behind. If you're in a relationship, it will suffer. You will probably enter into even more debt. And the worst part is that during the application process, medical schools can (and will) judge you based on your past mistakes rather than on more recent successes. The application process can be both capricious and arbitrary - even if you get a 4.0 in your second degree, kill the MCAT, and have amazing extracurriculars you may still never get in.

 

Be Honest and Take Time

 

If you are considering a second undergraduate degree, begin by being brutally honest with yourself. You should first consider where you went wrong. If you did not do well in your first undergrad because you had a physical or mental health issue, has it been completely resolved? Do not begin a second undergraduate degree if not. Take time off and get well - or at least take that time and learn ways to succeed despite the challenges you face before trying again.

 

Did you not do well in your first undergrad because you weren't motivated to succeed? If so, are you really motivated now? Someone PM'ed me saying they had just finished their first undergraduate degree and had done very poorly, but within the first week after finals they had suddenly become motivated to succeed. This is highly unlikely. They might suddenly realize they have graduated and now have to face the real world, but this feeling is not the same as being motivated to succeed. Probably within a month of re-entering a university program this person would lose motivation again. Again, my advice is to take time off of school. Take a minimum of two years and try out different jobs, volunteer, travel, make new friends, live in a different city (or country), just do something different. Time has a way of granting increased clarity - maybe with time you will discover your "motivation" for medicine was simply your perception of what others wanted you to do (which appears to be very common). Or maybe you will discover an innate desire to become a physician.

 

Maybe you didn't do well in your first undergrad because the program was too hard. This is a tricky one. There are a number of reasons for a program being too difficult - maybe it's something you don't enjoy, maybe you haven't adopted the right learning styles for the material you're being taught, maybe you work best in teams and your program is brutally individualistic, or maybe (and this is highly unlikely) your program really is just unfairly difficult. Again - be honest with yourself. One of my friends once asked me about doing a second undergrad to get into medicine, saying that they did poorly in life sciences because they hated it. My first question: "If life sciences was too hard because you don't like the material, how are you going to find medical school?" Another one of my friends was considering a second degree in life sciences after doing three years of a business program - she didn't do very well in her business major but said she hated it. On the other hand, she LOVED her life science electives and had nearly straight A+'es in them. A second degree for her was a no-brainer.

 

You may also have done poorly because you feel that you are not smart enough to succeed. This is VERY rare. I only mention it because I have seen one case of someone who was doing everything right but just couldn't crack 80's. This person loved the material, was working extremely hard, had very good study habits, was very motivated, and found good balance and had a great support network. If this is legitimately your situation, I would question whether medical school would be a good option. I'll just leave it at that, but honestly, this situation is very rare and if you think you fit into this category, consider first if you have actually done everything possible to succeed.

 

If you are still set on a second degree, you need to think about the answer to this question: Why do you want to be a doctor and not a worker in an allied health field? Again: you need to be honest. If your first answer is "because I enjoy helping people," I would reply with, "do nurses help people? Do police officers help people?" and so forth. Write out a list of why you want to go into medicine and figure out if that list is exclusive to being a physician. If it turns out you'd be equally (or more) happy being a nurse or an EMT - do that instead. If, after working in that field, you decide you'd like to apply to medicine (or do a second degree) at a later point you still can - and your application now has some very relevant work experience on it.

 

I don't mention all of this above to discourage you. I only mention it because getting into medicine through the second degree route is very difficult. If you are realistic, in a good place health-wise, motivated, had some proven academic success, and are certain that medicine is the right career, then you have a decent chance of success.

 

Most importantly, remember that there is absolutely no rush to get into medicine. We are always pushed to get ahead and succeed. This works great for some people but not for everyone: some of us need more time to find our niche. Life is a marathon, not a sprint - take some time to sort everything out, it will be worth it in the end.

 

The Practical Side

 

For those of you still reading, I'll get into the more practical side of things. Your primary consideration should be where and in which field to do a second degree. Consult the sticky at the top of this page regarding second degree policies at schools. Be VERY CONSCIOUS of what each school looks for in terms of a second degree - for instance, Western has very strict requirements for that degree. Take the time to review everything before selecting courses within a program (if you aren't paying attention you can very easily kill your eligibility at Western). Also, make sure you are going to be eligible at more than one school. Schools can change their admission requirements which can completely ruin you. It happened most recently with UBC's abolition of the 10-year rule which has seriously compromised the chances of some pretty incredible people both on and off this forum.

 

As for picking a program, send lots of e-mails to departments. Unfortunately, in Ontario it's becoming increasingly difficult to do second degrees (I suspect this may be due to "reach higher" funding being tied to increasing enrolment and second degree students may not count as this). Lots of schools will let you though, so check with programs. Pick one that you're very interested in, and have done well in academically during your first degree. It may be best to pick a program that can also let you review for the MCAT - but this is going to vary for people (if you haven't taken a physics course for instance, try to take one at some point).

 

Generally speaking, it's best to make yourself into a traditional applicant. In addition to performing well academically, you should balance this with extracurriculars - research, clubs, volunteering, etc. A great tip I can offer is to do your best to turn your life and experience into a narrative - if you did poorly during your first degree because you spent too much time playing video games, develop some resources for people who play video games excessively on campus. If, during your time off from university you became a parent, develop resources for other parents on campus or work on programs to empower parents to find change. This makes your application - and your answer to interview questions - much more compelling.

 

Just remember, GPA is king. If you have engineered world peace in your second degree but only have a 3.6 GPA in it, you're going to have a very hard time getting into medical schools in Canada.

 

Also, do start thinking now about the MCAT. Doing well on the MCAT will make your life easier by enabling Queen's and Western as options. You are much more limited if you cannot make cutoffs at these schools. So start practising early (for instance, if you find the verbal section difficult, start reading a lot).

 

Above all, remember that if you are pursuing a second degree you probably have an advantage (however small or obscure) over many first-year students coming in. Make sure to utilize it. As someone with a second undergraduate degree, you not only have to be as good as someone who has only done one degree, you have to be better. Think carefully about ways you can accomplish that. It IS possible to enter medicine from a second degree - but you need to do everything you can to maximize your chances.

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Just got accepted to UdeM pre-med... with a very non-trad story!

 

Background: I've been a swimmer for 23 years, moved away from home at 19 to train with a much better team in Montreal. In the last 10 years I've been training between 25-35 hours a week including swimming, weights and fitness. The past 2 years I've been training at the national center in Montreal and I was aiming to make the Olympic team for next year. Unfortunately my body decided otherwise and so in the last 2 years I trained for 8 months on a torn knee MCL which eventually healed on its own during a break. A week after my knee was good, my right shoulder gave up and cortisone would not help so I had surgery to repair a SLAP tear. During my rehab, my left shoulder went down (had problems before) and I had a repair done on it 2 months ago which means I've basically been on a forced sabbatical for a year and a half now as my first surgery was postponed 4 months.

 

I was first accepted at McGill in physio 10 years ago, but the program wasn't what I thought it would be, and there were way too many hours to mesh with my training so I switched to computer engineering and the following year computer science where I finished with a 3.9/4.0 GPA. I followed with a MSc in computer graphics at UdeM (4.2/4.3) and started a PhD which I quit after 2 years when I realized this wasn't really the field I wanted to be in. School has always been kinda of a part-time job for me, a way to ear some scholarships/money on the side while my main career was swimming.

 

When my surgery was postponed last year I was a full-time athlete out of school that suddenly had nothing to do, nothing to aim for, and I crashed badly. It took me a long long time, but eventually it made me realize what I needed and what I wanted in life which is when I decided to apply to med school. I'd never considered it before because it wasn't compatible to my training, but now with 2 shoulder ops there is no telling if I'll be able to come back at 100% so maybe it is time to find a new passion to drive me.

 

So you see, even though there are many days I wonder why I didn't do all that 5 years ago so I'd already be a resident, I remind myself that 5, or even 1 year ago I did not know many of the things I do now, and just wasn't ready to move there! I still battle with myself almost daily, but I know deep inside I learned so much during my training/racing years, and that all that strength will only help me move along my new path.

 

It's never too late! :)

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Awesome story Michelle and good for you.

 

I hear you on the injuries - football, hockey and bodybuilding here and due to various injuries in the past year I've been in the same boat as you. It is very depressing when you can't do the things you used to be able to do at the level which you're used to doing it.

 

I agree with your comment about not being ready to do this 5 years ago. Life is an excellent teacher and you will just know when the time is right for certain things. I truly believe everything happens for a reason :)

 

Good luck to you!

 

Just got accepted to UdeM pre-med... with a very non-trad story!

 

Background: I've been a swimmer for 23 years, moved away from home at 19 to train with a much better team in Montreal. In the last 10 years I've been training between 25-35 hours a week including swimming, weights and fitness. The past 2 years I've been training at the national center in Montreal and I was aiming to make the Olympic team for next year. Unfortunately my body decided otherwise and so in the last 2 years I trained for 8 months on a torn knee MCL which eventually healed on its own during a break. A week after my knee was good, my right shoulder gave up and cortisone would not help so I had surgery to repair a SLAP tear. During my rehab, my left shoulder went down (had problems before) and I had a repair done on it 2 months ago which means I've basically been on a forced sabbatical for a year and a half now as my first surgery was postponed 4 months.

 

I was first accepted at McGill in physio 10 years ago, but the program wasn't what I thought it would be, and there were way too many hours to mesh with my training so I switched to computer engineering and the following year computer science where I finished with a 3.9/4.0 GPA. I followed with a MSc in computer graphics at UdeM (4.2/4.3) and started a PhD which I quit after 2 years when I realized this wasn't really the field I wanted to be in. School has always been kinda of a part-time job for me, a way to ear some scholarships/money on the side while my main career was swimming.

 

When my surgery was postponed last year I was a full-time athlete out of school that suddenly had nothing to do, nothing to aim for, and I crashed badly. It took me a long long time, but eventually it made me realize what I needed and what I wanted in life which is when I decided to apply to med school. I'd never considered it before because it wasn't compatible to my training, but now with 2 shoulder ops there is no telling if I'll be able to come back at 100% so maybe it is time to find a new passion to drive me.

 

So you see, even though there are many days I wonder why I didn't do all that 5 years ago so I'd already be a resident, I remind myself that 5, or even 1 year ago I did not know many of the things I do now, and just wasn't ready to move there! I still battle with myself almost daily, but I know deep inside I learned so much during my training/racing years, and that all that strength will only help me move along my new path.

 

It's never too late! :)

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