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The GPA Thread


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I think its a fair estimate that at least half of the students this year, probably more, have had at least some undergraduate research, not really sure about basic v.s. clinical but its pretty varied.

 

That said, research is not a requirement, there's certainly ample time to research once you are in and the work you did as an undergrad may not be of further use to your career (exceptions to this would likely be masters or PhD work).

 

Sound advice: If you DON'T do research, have a good reason why you chose not to!

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Hi there..

 

Also, my major was biochemistry, and as such, many of my classes had biochem course codes. If I have one low biochem mark is it not possible to swap it for a higher mark, or must ALL biochem marks be used? IE, is there no maximum of biochem marks that can be counted for?

 

JC

 

...from UofM's applicant FAQ section (http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/medicine/admissions/agpa.html):

 

5. If I have taken a Biochemistry course twice, how is that calculated in my AGPA?

The lower grade will be dropped IF it is amongst your lower grades of eligible credit hours to be dropped (according to Table A above) and you have not reached the maximum number of allowable credit hours to drop. The courses you have completed must meet the course combinations listed on the Acceptable Biochemistry Course Combinations spreadsheet.

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If by this you mean how much is the prestige of attending an undergraduate school like McGill factored into your application? Diddly-squat.

Its in the application, not the pedigree.

 

Ok this sort of annoys me then. I came to McGill because I thought it would be advantageous, if not just for how it would help with the MCAT. If what you're saying is 100 percent true, and it's not even a factor in the interview process, then what's the point of being selective with one's undergraduate education? Could someone not just major in something like religious studies, or an 'easy' science, at Concordia (easy- I go there and even during finals the libraries are empty, a 3.7 there is achieved with little effort), get a 4.0 and be more competitive than a McGill student with a 3.6? That doesn't make sense!

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So by your logic someone who got a 3.0 at Harvard should just be able to waltz into any school and get in?

 

No he used a 3.6 and a 3.7 comparison. In the US, schools do have a scale to adjust GPAs because State Schools are known to have inflated grades.

 

In Canada a lot of schools say it doesn't matter but I know that some schools it does. At UBC they don't really tell you how they convert your grades and my friends mom is on the AdComm there and said there is a bit of a sway if you went to a top school in Canada.

 

It is a valid point that a 3.6 at McGill or UBC is at least on par with a 3.7 at UNBC or Concordia. However, a lot of graduate and professional schools don't really care that much about it. It's not going to make it "easier" or harder to get in.

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Ok this sort of annoys me then. I came to McGill because I thought it would be advantageous, if not just for how it would help with the MCAT. If what you're saying is 100 percent true, and it's not even a factor in the interview process, then what's the point of being selective with one's undergraduate education? Could someone not just major in something like religious studies, or an 'easy' science, at Concordia (easy- I go there and even during finals the libraries are empty, a 3.7 there is achieved with little effort), get a 4.0 and be more competitive than a McGill student with a 3.6? That doesn't make sense!

 

You should be selective in picking a school based on fit and interest and how it will help you build character, not on a perception of hierarchy. Your undergrad education isn't just a means to an end. Besides, as you can clearly see from this forum, many very highly qualified, bright, wonderful people do not get into med school. It's sad but it's a reality. If that ends up happening to a person what they will need to do is use the skills they learned and the experiences they had in moving forward and deciding what to do next.

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If you look more closely you'll notice he said 3.7 was easy to get, he compared a 4.0 GPA to a 3.6, which is quite a bit of difference.

 

lol ya you're right. I misread the part in brackets. Another point is that Concordia has a 4.0 GPA scale but gives out 4.3s if you do well, so you could have over 100% of the grades possible.

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Ok this sort of annoys me then. I came to McGill because I thought it would be advantageous, if not just for how it would help with the MCAT. If what you're saying is 100 percent true, and it's not even a factor in the interview process, then what's the point of being selective with one's undergraduate education? Could someone not just major in something like religious studies, or an 'easy' science, at Concordia (easy- I go there and even during finals the libraries are empty, a 3.7 there is achieved with little effort), get a 4.0 and be more competitive than a McGill student with a 3.6? That doesn't make sense!

Exactly, whats the point in worrying about where your undergrad was? Better to concern yourself with what you did with your undergrad. Did you do any useful research? Did you volunteer? Teach? Travel? Engage in extracurricular sports? Student government? Someone who has 4.0GPA and sat around would be less attractive as a candidate than someone with a 3.6GPA and a full CV.

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Yes this all makes sense I guess, at least the GPA is only 15 percent at U of M, which I think is appropriate with the MCAT being the great equalizer with schools being so unequal in difficulty, and since sooo much more matters than grades.

 

Also being at McGill will be better if I don't want to go to med school after all.

 

My next question for anyone who knows, is regarding the AGPA. Let's suppose that your GPA is 3.25 (under the 3.3 minimum), but your AGPA is substantial, due to your first year being inadequate. Do they care about your courses dropped in the calculation at all? Do they have any effect on getting an interview? I have read the faqs, I know the 6 Bio Prereq credits count.

 

In other words, do they have any sort of haunting effect?:confused:

 

btw I wouldn't plan on applying until I'm eligible for 30 dropped credits, hence a completed degree

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If the courses are dropped, they don't affect your application at all :)

 

That sounds wonderful :). Does that include dropped failed courses? Not that I'm failing anything, just out of curiosity. I wonder if any other schools do this, none that I've looked at have, it's very generous, though I feel it's necessary since marks do not give the whole picture. The MCAT should be the great equalizer for students who have say, majored in religion, as well as rural/diversity, and obviously EC's and the interview.

 

Thanks for the info so far everyone! I just have a few more questions if you don't mind...

 

So I'm majoring in a tough area, and my GPA shouldn't be very high. It could be pretty high with the 15-30 dropped credits, but even given that, the 4.5 scale will still be a hinderance. Could a 'low' GPA be made up for with a ridiculously high MCAT score? If someone could give me an example of what kind of an MCAT score would make up for say, a 3.6 GPA, let me know. My GPA my first year also hasn't been great...I know I can get all A's and B+'s next year. Do they consider an ascending trend?

 

Secondly, I want to take a year off after completing my bachelor's degree to volunteer in my rural hometown, as well as internationally. This way, I will have the 30 dropped credits as well, though I really just want to volunteer to gain experience in health care. Does not immediately applying make a difference in the application?

 

Lastly, could anyone tell me about the 18 humanities credits? I want to minor in geography to get these, but it says geo doesn't count. Now, it's not the scientific aspects of geography that I'll be doing, but rather human geo. Courses include "Cities in the modern world" and "Medical Geography". I was wondering if they'll consider these humanities/social sciences.

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In calculating your aGPA, dropped failed courses won't affect it. I think other schools do this too (e.g. Toronto?). As for some kind of ascending trend like weighting later years more than earlier years, they don't do that. Is that 3.6 your adjusted GPA? Regardless, I don't know what kind of MCAT you'd really need to make up for it.

 

Not applying immediately after undergrad will probably actually help your application as long as you're gaining life experience.

 

As for the humanities, I'd contact the admissions office and ask them. I can tell you that I once took a paleontology class that was listed under both the biology and the geology faculties, so that it could contribute to degrees in either program. If those classes are also listed under something like anthropology then you'd probably be ok. But I'd ask anyways just to be safe.

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In calculating your aGPA, dropped failed courses won't affect it. I think other schools do this too (e.g. Toronto?). As for some kind of ascending trend like weighting later years more than earlier years, they don't do that. Is that 3.6 your adjusted GPA? Regardless, I don't know what kind of MCAT you'd really need to make up for it.

 

Not applying immediately after undergrad will probably actually help your application as long as you're gaining life experience.

 

As for the humanities, I'd contact the admissions office and ask them. I can tell you that I once took a paleontology class that was listed under both the biology and the geology faculties, so that it could contribute to degrees in either program. If those classes are also listed under something like anthropology then you'd probably be ok. But I'd ask anyways just to be safe.

 

That's great that dropped failed credits have no effect just in case! No that is not my AGPA, I am just finishing up my first year. However, a 3.6 here is good, it's an A- approximately. I'm fairly certain that would get converted into a 4.0 at U of M (80 percent). We are hindered in that the most we can get (4.0) is less than the average accepted U of M student. We don't have A+'s and there is no indication of a percentage above 90 (A>85). However, in the grand scheme of things, I'm thinking since the GPA is 15 percent, the conversions won't be a big deal. I've done wonderfully on practice MCATs, which if it means anything, it will make up for the GPA. I think U of M has the best system.

Did you imply there that U of T drops credits? I haven't really looked into them. I hear Ontario is a crapshoot.

 

And that's also great about taking a year off to develop more EC's. Summer's don't give one a whole lot of time.

 

As for the 18 humanities, I did contact them but there was no reply so I'm thinking I made a mistake in who to contact. I think some of the credits can be applied to a sociology degree which is good. I don't know why they don't specify that human geo is alright, it's not always science. I feel it's most relevant, at least for me, along with psych and sociology. Anyway, if the geo doesn't count, I will have lot's of room for other arts courses, I'm just doing a liberal science major. I'm so glad they require the 18 arts courses, acknowledging the fact that people who just do science probably won't make good doctors.

 

My friend here is unaware of the 18 arts requirement, she is just doing science courses with no electives. Does anyone ever get in without the arts courses and without having waived them? Or are they super important like the 6 biochem credits?

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That's great that dropped failed credits have no effect just in case! No that is not my AGPA, I am just finishing up my first year. However, a 3.6 here is good, it's an A- approximately. I'm fairly certain that would get converted into a 4.0 at U of M (80 percent). We are hindered in that the most we can get (4.0) is less than the average accepted U of M student. We don't have A+'s and there is no indication of a percentage above 90 (A>85). However, in the grand scheme of things, I'm thinking since the GPA is 15 percent, the conversions won't be a big deal. I've done wonderfully on practice MCATs, which if it means anything, it will make up for the GPA. I think U of M has the best system.

Did you imply there that U of T drops credits? I haven't really looked into them. I hear Ontario is a crapshoot.

 

And that's also great about taking a year off to develop more EC's. Summer's don't give one a whole lot of time.

 

As for the 18 humanities, I did contact them but there was no reply so I'm thinking I made a mistake in who to contact. I think some of the credits can be applied to a sociology degree which is good. I don't know why they don't specify that human geo is alright, it's not always science. I feel it's most relevant, at least for me, along with psych and sociology. Anyway, if the geo doesn't count, I will have lot's of room for other arts courses, I'm just doing a liberal science major. I'm so glad they require the 18 arts courses, acknowledging the fact that people who just do science probably won't make good doctors.

 

My friend here is unaware of the 18 arts requirement, she is just doing science courses with no electives. Does anyone ever get in without the arts courses and without having waived them? Or are they super important like the 6 biochem credits?

 

If you're doing a major or honors you don't need to have the arts requirements. I majored in Anat and Cell Bio and didn't do all the arts classes. Also if you look at U of M's site they show you how our McGill GPA gets converted. Essentially the highest we could get is 4.0 on the agpa scale. The only big difference is that I believe our B+ 3.3 is given a 3.5 weight. Here's the link http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/medicine/admissions/agpa.html

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That's great that dropped failed credits have no effect just in case! No that is not my AGPA, I am just finishing up my first year. However, a 3.6 here is good, it's an A- approximately. I'm fairly certain that would get converted into a 4.0 at U of M (80 percent). We are hindered in that the most we can get (4.0) is less than the average accepted U of M student. We don't have A+'s and there is no indication of a percentage above 90 (A>85). However, in the grand scheme of things, I'm thinking since the GPA is 15 percent, the conversions won't be a big deal. I've done wonderfully on practice MCATs, which if it means anything, it will make up for the GPA. I think U of M has the best system.

Did you imply there that U of T drops credits? I haven't really looked into them. I hear Ontario is a crapshoot.

 

And that's also great about taking a year off to develop more EC's. Summer's don't give one a whole lot of time.

 

As for the 18 humanities, I did contact them but there was no reply so I'm thinking I made a mistake in who to contact. I think some of the credits can be applied to a sociology degree which is good. I don't know why they don't specify that human geo is alright, it's not always science. I feel it's most relevant, at least for me, along with psych and sociology. Anyway, if the geo doesn't count, I will have lot's of room for other arts courses, I'm just doing a liberal science major. I'm so glad they require the 18 arts courses, acknowledging the fact that people who just do science probably won't make good doctors.

 

My friend here is unaware of the 18 arts requirement, she is just doing science courses with no electives. Does anyone ever get in without the arts courses and without having waived them? Or are they super important like the 6 biochem credits?

 

As a fellow McGiller who applied to Manitoba this year and interviewed there, I have to say that despite the 'disadvantage' in GPA that we have here, it's still possible to get an interview (so you don't need to worry much).

 

If you're aiming for Manitoba, you don't really have to aim at getting As for every course but rather at getting A-s.

 

It is fairly easy to get A-s from a lot of the 'easy' electives (with average grade being A- for most of them) so it won't be hard to score a 4.0/4.5 on Manitoba aGPA scale (PLUS if they drop your lowest grades).

 

But it's really hard to get an interview and get in with a 3.6 CGPA without a good MCAT score (unless you are from Manitoba). I would have to say that an average out-of-province student who got an interview from Manitoba has ~4.0 aGPA and ~35R or something like that.

 

Because the maximum aGPA you can get from McGill is 4.0aGPA, you would need to ace your MCATs (I'm being realistic for you. You should seriously aim for 38R so that you also have the advantage after the interview). That said, it is relatively difficult to get 38R.

 

BUT McGill science does prepare you well for the science sections.

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As a fellow McGiller who applied to Manitoba this year and interviewed there, I have to say that despite the 'disadvantage' in GPA that we have here, it's still possible to get an interview (so you don't need to worry much).

 

If you're aiming for Manitoba, you don't really have to aim at getting As for every course but rather at getting A-s.

 

It is fairly easy to get A-s from a lot of the 'easy' electives (with average grade being A- for most of them) so it won't be hard to score a 4.0/4.5 on Manitoba aGPA scale (PLUS if they drop your lowest grades).

 

But it's really hard to get an interview and get in with a 3.6 CGPA without a good MCAT score (unless you are from Manitoba). I would have to say that an average out-of-province student who got an interview from Manitoba has ~4.0 aGPA and ~35R or something like that.

 

Because the maximum aGPA you can get from McGill is 4.0aGPA, you would need to ace your MCATs (I'm being realistic for you. You should seriously aim for 38R so that you also have the advantage after the interview). That said, it is relatively difficult to get 38R.

 

BUT McGill science does prepare you well for the science sections.

 

Thanks! That's pretty much what I needed to hear. Mind you, I am in province and rural.

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  • 3 weeks later...
In calculating your aGPA, dropped failed courses won't affect it. I think other schools do this too (e.g. Toronto?).

 

So having F's on one's transcripts doesn't make a difference due to the dropping policy? I happen to have one....Can someone please expand on this? I sure hope this doesn't refer to W's, but F's. My GPA is 3.2 with the F and other horrible grades, but with the 30 dropped credits I sit at a 3.85/4.0, as well as an MCAT score of 37, and good EC's.

 

Besides that single cursed F, I would consider myself to be at the very least moderately competitive. U of M is the only school I believe I can get into (besides Carib) due to their dropped credit policy.

 

If my assumption is right that it's F's which are dropped, I am good it looks like. Someone please expand on this :)

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I refer you guys to this page:

http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/medicine/admissions/agpa.html

 

At the bottom there's a note about converting grades into percentages, has anyone from McGill tried that?

 

Thanks! I don't see anything specifically mentioned regarding failed courses.....I can't see them being a good thing and really want to know for sure that the dropped credit policy would erase that single F from my life. Otherwise I'll head down the Caribbean path, or be a chiropractor.

 

For example, I know a lot of schools that cut you off for having a grade below C, or even not having achieved 16~ credits per term. Putting aside policies such as this, an F is a huge GPA hinderance....but it'd be nice to know it goes away :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
As a fellow McGiller who applied to Manitoba this year and interviewed there, I have to say that despite the 'disadvantage' in GPA that we have here, it's still possible to get an interview (so you don't need to worry much).

 

If you're aiming for Manitoba, you don't really have to aim at getting As for every course but rather at getting A-s.

 

It is fairly easy to get A-s from a lot of the 'easy' electives (with average grade being A- for most of them) so it won't be hard to score a 4.0/4.5 on Manitoba aGPA scale (PLUS if they drop your lowest grades).

 

But it's really hard to get an interview and get in with a 3.6 CGPA without a good MCAT score (unless you are from Manitoba). I would have to say that an average out-of-province student who got an interview from Manitoba has ~4.0 aGPA and ~35R or something like that.

 

Because the maximum aGPA you can get from McGill is 4.0aGPA, you would need to ace your MCATs (I'm being realistic for you. You should seriously aim for 38R so that you also have the advantage after the interview). That said, it is relatively difficult to get 38R.

 

BUT McGill science does prepare you well for the science sections.

 

To clarify, if you have a 4.0 AGPA...you'd need a 38R MCAT to be considered competitive as an OOP applicant?!

 

Edit: Read the Accepted etc. thread. Oh boy.

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