Applying To US DO Med Schools - FAQs, Guidance & Canadian Friendly Schools

[lydiajiajia]

I don't have english credit and half of the general chemistry credit (I graduated from U of T). Can I apply now and indicate in the application that I will take those two courses this year?

[Mashmetoo]

I don't have english credit and half of the general chemistry credit (I graduated from U of T). Can I apply now and indicate in the application that I will take those two courses this year?

 

Yes. That's what I did, and it worked.

[Der Kaiser]

Yes. That's what I did, and it worked.

 

According to AACOMAS if the courses are not listed as in progress on your transcript they will be removed. Did you apply once you had already registered for these courses somewhere?

[Mashmetoo]

According to AACOMAS if the courses are not listed as in progress on your transcript they will be removed. Did you apply once you had already registered for these courses somewhere?

 

Yes 10char

[Der Kaiser]

I am having trouble with this because I cannot register for the Fall until tomorrow, but for obvious reasons I want to submit my primary earlier than mid-late July. If you send an updated transcript to AACOMAS will they add the "in progress" courses for you?

[lydiajiajia]

Can I take my English credit in Chang School too? Do both DO and MD schools accept Chang School credits? Thank you!!!!

[Mashmetoo]

I am having trouble with this because I cannot register for the Fall until tomorrow, but for obvious reasons I want to submit my primary earlier than mid-late July. If you send an updated transcript to AACOMAS will they add the "in progress" courses for you?

 

I'm pretty sure if you sent them an updated transcript with courses you are taking, they will correct it. Also add an email telling them that you are taking additional courses.

[Mashmetoo]

Can I take my English credit in Chang School too? Do both DO and MD schools accept Chang School credits? Thank you!!!!

 

The Chang school courses are considered university level courses. They should fulfill the English requirements for any prerequisites.

[Mashmetoo]

Can someone please tell me about the Western University of Health Sciences and if they accept Canadians as domestic applicants or internationals.

 

 

EDIT: Also any D.O/P.h.D programs that accept Canadians?

 

International, but the tuition is the same since it's a private institute.

Pretty sure the DO/PhD program accepts internationals as well.

[maple.leaf]

PCOM / PCOM-GA - not Canadian friendly** - The Philadelphia college of Osteopathic medicine is a very old school. I guess you can say it is a very “prestigious” DO school in the US. The school was founded (I think) either in the late 1800s, or the early 1900s, making it one of the oldest DO schools around. There’s around 6 or so MD schools in Philadelphia, and PCOM has been able to hold their own against these competitor MD schools for the last century or so. I guess that should be a testimony to PCOM. However, I personally did not have a pleasant experience interacting with PCOM. This being said, I only heard/know of ONE Canadian attending the Georgia (GA) campus. I've never heard of Canadians getting interviews in this school.

 

Hey Mashmetoo,

 

Thanks for answering my last question - it was very helpful!

 

I had a question pertaining PCOM - I really want to apply there in order to broaden the net of medical schools I'm applying to, and was wondering whether its status of "not Canadian friendly" is outdated. The reason why I'm asking is because the COMSA website lists PCOM as a school currently accepting Canadians (see link 1) and apparently it has a COMSA representative named Niraj Patel (see link 2). Finally, PCOM indicates in its FAQ that it takes international students (see link 3), although I understand other schools say they take international students yet aren't "Canadian-friendly" (ie. LECOM).

 

Nevertheless, I imagine if Niraj Patel is attending this school and is a representative for COMSA, he would be a Canadian who would have interviewed there. Is he the one Canadian you mentioned in your initial post (because if not, perhaps there's some hope for Canadians getting into PCOM yet)? Based on all of this, have you heard of any Canadians interviewing there recently?

 

Thank you!

 

Link 1: http://www.studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/premed/schools

Link 2: http://www.studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/premed/schools/PCOM

Link 3: http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/adm_faqs/DoFaqs.html

[Mashmetoo]

I know Niraj, he apparently did his undergrad in the US, somewhere close to PCOM Georgia, and he has extensive family connections near PCOM. That's probably the main reason he was accepted. It is a well known fact amongst DO students, and premeds applying to US DO schools that PCOM is not Canadian friendly at all. Everyone who has applied to PCOM (myself included) has recommended against applying to that school as a Canadian. Our impression was that PCOM only added that they accept international students as a way to take your 50 dollars of application fee. Your chances of interview and acceptance there is practically zero unless you have extensive connections in the US.

 

Hey Mashmetoo,

 

Thanks for answering my last question - it was very helpful!

 

I had a question pertaining PCOM - I really want to apply there in order to broaden the net of medical schools I'm applying to, and was wondering whether its status of "not Canadian friendly" is outdated. The reason why I'm asking is because the COMSA website lists PCOM as a school currently accepting Canadians (see link 1) and apparently it has a COMSA representative named Niraj Patel (see link 2). Finally, PCOM indicates in its FAQ that it takes international students (see link 3), although I understand other schools say they take international students yet aren't "Canadian-friendly" (ie. LECOM).

 

Nevertheless, I imagine if Niraj Patel is attending this school and is a representative for COMSA, he would be a Canadian who would have interviewed there. Is he the one Canadian you mentioned in your initial post (because if not, perhaps there's some hope for Canadians getting into PCOM yet)? Based on all of this, have you heard of any Canadians interviewing there recently?

 

Thank you!

 

Link 1: http://www.studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/premed/schools

Link 2: http://www.studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/premed/schools/PCOM

Link 3: http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/adm_faqs/DoFaqs.html

[maple.leaf]

I know Niraj, he apparently did his undergrad in the US, somewhere close to PCOM Georgia, and he has extensive family connections near PCOM. That's probably the main reason he was accepted. It is a well known fact amongst DO students, and premeds applying to US DO schools that PCOM is not Canadian friendly at all. Everyone who has applied to PCOM (myself included) has recommended against applying to that school as a Canadian. Our impression was that PCOM only added that they accept international students as a way to take your 50 dollars of application fee. Your chances of interview and acceptance there is practically zero unless you have extensive connections in the US.

 

That's actually pretty disappointing. Maybe I was holding out a little too much hope, but I was really looking forward to the prospect of applying to and possibly attending PCOM =(

 

Oh well, thanks for the help!

[Mashmetoo]

Hey Mash, can you make a tier list of all the US DO schools that accept Canadians? I think everyone would like to know which D.O schools are considered top tier, average tier, and low tier.

 

Thanks

 

Come on man I'm in my 4th year, and about to graduate into PGY-1. I can't fight all your battles for you!

 

This is something for you young people to do

[Mourning Cloak]

I'm in my 4th year, and about to graduate into PGY-1.

 

Where did you match?

[Der Kaiser]

Hey Mash, can you make a tier list of all the US DO schools that accept Canadians? I think everyone would like to know which D.O schools are considered top tier, average tier, and low tier.

 

Thanks

 

Might be better to state which ones do not accept Canadians. Off the top of my head:

 

Alabama COM

PCOM (both campuses)

Pacific Northwest

None of the satellite campuses as far as I know (except for the case of AZCOM and CCOM)

New York COM

The LECOMs (Bradenton, Erie and I think another one)

Des Moines COM

Pikeville in Kentucky

Not sure about William Carey.

The virginia (including West) ones.

Keep in mind many say they accept internationals but in practice do not.

 

Can anyone think of anymore?

[Mashmetoo]

Starting this cycle, UBC school of medicine has stated that all IMGs are now required to take the NAC OSCE as a prerequisite to application to any programs at UBC.

 

Starting the next cycle in 2014, all Ontario medical schools will also require that IMGs take the NAC osce before being able to apply to any programs in Ontario. http://www.cehpea.ca/examinations/PGY1/NAC-OSCE.htm

 

The same can be said for Alberta and Manitoba, which require IMGs to take the NAC osce as a prerequisite for CaRMs application to their programs.

 

The NAC OSCE is a 2000 dollar exam. We have made inquiries into whether the NAC osce is required for US trained DOs. The response is that in the provinces in which USDOs are considered CMGs - i.e., ON, BC, QC, USDOs do not require the NAC osce - but can take it to "embellish" their application. In provinces in which USDOs are considered IMGs - i.e, Alberta, Manitoba, then yes, USDOs are required to take the NAC OSCE like all IMGs.

 

What this means is that effectively, one more road block in the form of this NAC osce has been erected for all IMGs if they wish to return to Canada. Whereas for USDOs, we are still exempt from this exam in ON, BC, QC, which coincidentally holds the majority of Canadian medical schools.

 

We predict that this new requirement will potentially increase the number of applicants and matriculants to USDO schools, if anything, simply as a reflex people may have to avoid these exams if possible .

[infamyofinternal]

Starting this cycle, UBC school of medicine has stated that all IMGs are now required to take the NAC OSCE as a prerequisite to application to any programs at UBC.

 

Starting the next cycle in 2014, all Ontario medical schools will also require that IMGs take the NAC osce before being able to apply to any programs in Ontario. http://www.cehpea.ca/examinations/PGY1/NAC-OSCE.htm

 

The same can be said for Alberta and Manitoba, which require IMGs to take the NAC osce as a prerequisite for CaRMs application to their programs.

 

The NAC OSCE is a 2000 dollar exam. We have made inquiries into whether the NAC osce is required for US trained DOs. The response is that in the provinces in which USDOs are considered CMGs - i.e., ON, BC, QC, USDOs do not require the NAC osce - but can take it to "embellish" their application. In provinces in which USDOs are considered IMGs - i.e, Alberta, Manitoba, then yes, USDOs are required to take the NAC OSCE like all IMGs.

 

What this means is that effectively, one more road block in the form of this NAC osce has been erected for all IMGs if they wish to return to Canada. Whereas for USDOs, we are still exempt from this exam in ON, BC, QC, which coincidentally holds the majority of Canadian medical schools.

 

We predict that this new requirement will potentially increase the number of applicants and matriculants to USDO schools, if anything, simply as a reflex people may have to avoid these exams if possible .

 

As a UBC Medicine Class of 2014 candidate, I felt it was my duty to post here and say you should take the above post with a grain of salt. My younger sister will be attending a reputable DO school(CCOM) this fall, but things are not as seemingly rosy as the above poster is making it all seem.

 

A test costing 2000$ will not be a hinderance to IMGs considering the incredible cost of education they already put in, nor would it be much of an issue due to the very nature of NAC osce and its intended purpose. It is intended to evaluate and ensure individuals with foreign credentials are up to snuff. Naturally most competitive students won't have much problem with this from reputable IMG schools(SGU, RCSI, etc).

 

While yes, due to the written evaluation of DO schools status in the mentioned provinces where they are lumped with CMGS, a DO student would not have to take it. But there is reason as to why it is indicated that it would be beneficial for them to take it - because it would add more substance to their profile.

 

Having been involved with student feedback committees at UBC, I can assure you that the residency programs have the "take our own" mentality towards UBC and CMG's alike - and DO students are in practicality lumped in with other US grads.

 

DO is still a better option for the average person than IMG, but painting it to be progressing and becoming no different than UBC and other Canadian medical school is false. This is not to say that there aren't good schools, my sister wouldn't be attending otherwise. However there are limitations due to the nature of the Canadian Medical system, and those should be acknowledged. At the end of the day you are a physician and are privileged to help people. But do not expect a red carpet back into a UBC residency without going above and beyond, and more-so compared to Canadian Medical grads. The simple fact that they get first priority, at least for open-file schools in the west coast. A CCOM admin has indicated to my sister that she would have a better chance at some east coast schools that do closed-file review(i.e. they would not see her school of attendance, subverting the whole MD vs DO bias).

 

Overall, you post valid things and I commend you for your continued work towards for your peers - but you might want to tone down a bit of that overly zealous optimism, as we all know pre-meds are very vulnerable. It is better that they do the unbiased research themselves when deciding how to spend their life.

 

2cents.

[Thomas86]

you might want to tone down a bit of that overly zealous optimism, as we all know pre-meds are very vulnerable. It is better that they do the unbiased research themselves when deciding how to spend their life.

 

2cents.

 

totally agree with you... Mash makes DO path seem to be all rainbow and sunshine, but in really is not...

one of the challenges that DOs will be facing is due to the fact that GME merger failed. according to this article http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=147651

 

"Because no agreement has been reached, responded Dr. Buser, the ACGME might go ahead with previously planned changes to its common program requirements that would prevent ACGME-accredited programs in all specialties from recognizing previously completed osteopathic GME. This would bar DOs in non-dually-accredited osteopathic residencies from pursuing ACGME fellowships and DOs in traditional rotating internships from entering ACGME residencies as second-year residents. New DO graduates would still be able to enter ACGME residencies as first-year residents."

 

not only DO US graduates will face difficulties in getting competitive residency spots but also it will be much more difficult for Canadians to do so since they need to deal with issues regarding visa..

[Mashmetoo]

As a UBC Medicine Class of 2014 candidate, I felt it was my duty to post here and say you should take the above post with a grain of salt. My younger sister will be attending a reputable DO school(CCOM) this fall, but things are not as seemingly rosy as the above poster is making it all seem.

 

What is that supposed to mean? How did I make it sound all "rosy"? Did I say as a DO, you'll get into UBC? No. Did I say they'll roll out the red carpet for you as a US grad and let you match? No. Do you want to quote exactly WHERE I made it sound all rosy?

 

I said IMGs now must take the NAC osce, DOs are not required, then I extrapolated that this would mean more Canadians would apply to DO schools, and enroll in them. Did I imply that as a result of this policy, DOs will match in greater frequency in Canadian programs? NO.

 

So. tell me where you are getting your stuff from. Otherwise I don't know what you are you are talking about.

 

A test costing 2000$ will not be a hinderance to IMGs considering the incredible cost of education they already put in, nor would it be much of an issue due to the very nature of NAC osce and its intended purpose. It is intended to evaluate and ensure individuals with foreign credentials are up to snuff. Naturally most competitive students won't have much problem with this from reputable IMG schools(SGU, RCSI, etc).

 

Tell me, are you in med school? Do you have any prior experience taking these national level board exams? Do you have a comprehension of what is required to prepare for these exams, the pressure on test day? Cost is a small component of the multitude of things you must do to prep for them, in fact, the cost is the easiest step. Would you have me believe, or other pre-meds here believe that having to prep for a 2000 dollar high stakes exam like this, is exactly the same as not being forced (basically) to take this exam? Are you kidding me?

 

While yes, due to the written evaluation of DO schools status in the mentioned provinces where they are lumped with CMGS, a DO student would not have to take it. But there is reason as to why it is indicated that it would be beneficial for them to take it - because it would add more substance to their profile.

Ok? Isn't this a repeat of what I posted above?

 

Having been involved with student feedback committees at UBC, I can assure you that the residency programs have the "take our own" mentality towards UBC and CMG's alike - and DO students are in practicality lumped in with other US grads.

 

DO is still a better option for the average person than IMG, but painting it to be progressing and becoming no different than UBC and other Canadian medical school is false. This is not to say that there aren't good schools, my sister wouldn't be attending otherwise. However there are limitations due to the nature of the Canadian Medical system, and those should be acknowledged. At the end of the day you are a physician and are privileged to help people. But do not expect a red carpet back into a UBC residency without going above and beyond, and more-so compared to Canadian Medical grads. The simple fact that they get first priority, at least for open-file schools in the west coast. A CCOM admin has indicated to my sister that she would have a better chance at some east coast schools that do closed-file review(i.e. they would not see her school of attendance, subverting the whole MD vs DO bias).

 

From what I keep hearing, UBC would rather only take med students who graduate from UBC, and nowhere else. You could say this is a problem for CMGs too, not exclusive to US graduates.

 

Again, you seem to misunderstand me, and think that I meant to say that the DO is progressing to be like CMGs. While I can understand why you would think that, I did not mean that.

 

I was stating as a matter of fact, that:

1) NAC OSCE is required for IMGs in BC

2) USDOs do not have to take the NAC OSCE

Therefore:

3) We anticipate that more Canadians will apply to DO programs simply as a way to escape these mandatory tests.

 

I didn't say any more than that, and I didn't say any less. To do as you have, basically putting words in my mouth, and suggesting that I came up with a conclusion that I, by no means, came up with, is unfair.

 

Overall, you post valid things and I commend you for your continued work towards for your peers - but you might want to tone down a bit of that overly zealous optimism, as we all know pre-meds are very vulnerable. It is better that they do the unbiased research themselves when deciding how to spend their life.

 

2cents.

 

For one thing, I don't find my posts to be "over zealous". I've compared my writings to the brochures you find on those Atlantic bridge, or various Australia recruitment sites, and I don't find my language to be "overly zealous". It is comparable in content and tone to those other organizations.

So I respectfully reject your premise.

 

Also, at the end of the day, this is my thread. There's no other player out there who will paint the USDO option in a positive light. This is where I come in. While people such as yourself can disagree with what I write, I'll always be around for a rebuttal. No one else here will do that.

[Mashmetoo]

Tell me, what does the failure of the GME unification have to do with the new requirement that states IMGs must take the NAC OSCE?

 

How are those two conceptually linked? Logically linked? Are they even linked?

 

Now tell me, what, in your mind, made that logical connection, and resulted in your bringing up the failure of the GME unification between the ACGME and AOA, into a discussion of NAC OSCE in Canada?

 

You also bring up the issue of visa.. really? Tell me again, in a discussion about NAC osce in CANADA. What does the role of visa sponsorship in the US play?

 

Lastly, with my previous post, I was stating as a matter of fact, that:

1) NAC OSCE is required for IMGs in BC

2) USDOs do not have to take the NAC OSCE

Therefore:

3) We anticipate that more Canadians will apply to DO programs simply as a way to escape these mandatory tests.

 

Do you not agree with this? Why not? What research have you done that made you disagree with this assessment? hmm?

 

I think what you just did, is a classic emotional response to an external stimuli that you find uncomforting. Yes, it sucks that the GME unification didn't work, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with NAC osce in CANADA.

 

Also, it's not my intention to say that everything will be ok as a USDO, and that you'll match. YOU people came up with that, and stuck it in my mouth. I've seen people not match in the DO program, I've seen Canadians quit half way through their DO program to try for MD, I've seen all this. So to suggest that I would say something as naive as "the DO path is all rainbow and roses" is ridiculous. I do a lot of things, but I don't do naive.

 

totally agree with you... Mash makes DO path seem to be all rainbow and sunshine, but in really is not...

one of the challenges that DOs will be facing is due to the fact that GME merger failed. according to this article http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=147651

 

"Because no agreement has been reached, responded Dr. Buser, the ACGME might go ahead with previously planned changes to its common program requirements that would prevent ACGME-accredited programs in all specialties from recognizing previously completed osteopathic GME. This would bar DOs in non-dually-accredited osteopathic residencies from pursuing ACGME fellowships and DOs in traditional rotating internships from entering ACGME residencies as second-year residents. New DO graduates would still be able to enter ACGME residencies as first-year residents."

 

not only DO US graduates will face difficulties in getting competitive residency spots but also it will be much more difficult for Canadians to do so since they need to deal with issues regarding visa..

[infamyofinternal]

You took that with great hostility, I didn't intend to anger you. As stated in the first sentence, I'm class of 2014. 75% done.

 

Additionally I said nothing about DO being bad, except that the way you state things a premed can misinterpret and come to false correlations.

 

As for the other persons post, I have no part.

 

In your original post you only mentioned the cost factor, that was my issue. Only I'm the rebuttal do you then refer to the actual soul sucking aspect of doing tests. My point is that IMGs having to do the NAC OSCE has nothing to do with more people going DO. It is just another test you have to do after the multitude of tests already needing to be taken. Additionally, I was alluding to that, although USDOs in some provinces do not have to do the exam, it would be encouraged to take it to stand out(think: more hoops like the pre-med rat race).

 

I hope I'm not being lumped with the other poster.

 

As for UBC, I should clarify they prefer UBC, but if you look at the statistics of residency spread they take about 1/3 or more other CMG. I simply mean that for west coast at least, DO being classified as CMG doesn't translate in the practical sense.

 

Anyways, I apologize if I offended you, I didn't realize you would become so defensive.

[Thomas86]

I did not mean to offend you in anyway, there is absolutely no linkage between your last post and mine, I was just stating that there are other factors that should come into mind when considering the DO path.... that's all..however, I do agree that I am exhusted over the fact that the merger did not occur.

[Patrick1234]

I'm confused so please correct me if I am wrong, but don't DOs have to write the COMLEX exams to graduate? whereas IMGS only have to write the USMLE? why would people apply to DOs to escape a test just to write more tests? yes I know USMLE is optional but with the merger failing, it's probably better for DOs to write both sets of exams just like it's better for DOs to still write their OSCE even if they technically don't need it to better their application

 

 

Tell me, what does the failure of the GME unification have to do with the new requirement that states IMGs must take the NAC OSCE?

 

How are those two conceptually linked? Logically linked? Are they even linked?

 

Now tell me, what, in your mind, made that logical connection, and resulted in your bringing up the failure of the GME unification between the ACGME and AOA, into a discussion of NAC OSCE in Canada?

 

You also bring up the issue of visa.. really? Tell me again, in a discussion about NAC osce in CANADA. What does the role of visa sponsorship in the US play?

 

Lastly, with my previous post, I was stating as a matter of fact, that:

1) NAC OSCE is required for IMGs in BC

2) USDOs do not have to take the NAC OSCE

Therefore:

3) We anticipate that more Canadians will apply to DO programs simply as a way to escape these mandatory tests.

Do you not agree with this? Why not? What research have you done that made you disagree with this assessment? hmm?

 

 

 

 

I think what you just did, is a classic emotional response to an external stimuli that you find uncomforting. Yes, it sucks that the GME unification didn't work, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with NAC osce in CANADA.

 

Also, it's not my intention to say that everything will be ok as a USDO, and that you'll match. YOU people came up with that, and stuck it in my mouth. I've seen people not match in the DO program, I've seen Canadians quit half way through their DO program to try for MD, I've seen all this. So to suggest that I would say something as naive as "the DO path is all rainbow and roses" is ridiculous. I do a lot of things, but I don't do naive.

[Thomas86]

I'm confused so please correct me if I am wrong, but don't DOs have to write the COMLEX exams to graduate? whereas IMGS only have to write the USMLE? why would people apply to DOs to escape a test just to write more tests? yes I know USMLE is optional but with the merger failing, it's probably better for DOs to write both sets of exams just like it's better for DOs to still write their OSCE even if they technically don't need it to better their application

 

yup they must write all COMLEX exams, I believe there will be 11 tests by the end you graduate if you include taking USMLEs and Canadian tests.

[Dayne67]

I think that it's obvious most Canadians that traverse this path go in knowing that there is a good chance that they may have to do residency in the US. It's really about balancing expectations. While it may or may not be more difficult to secure residency at UBC or whatever, it is not the end of the world. You still have a great shot to live and pursue your dreams down here. If people can still be content with this possibility, I think going to a DO med school is a great option.

 

Moreover, most US grads (whether MD or DO) are more inclined to stay here and not come back to Canada. And that's really not an option that one has when going the Irish or Aussie routes.

 

Mash, do you intend to come back to Canada? Or are you planning on staying in sunny Cali?