Opening the flood gates: Foreign dentists can challenge the boards in 2011

[alphacow]

Today, our dean told us that in 2011, foreign trained dentists no longer have to go through the international dental program. They can choose to challenge the canadian boards by taking 1 written exam, 1 OSCE (patient interview), and 1 clinical exam. So far, 1500 international dentists have signed up to take the boards in 2011.

 

How do you guys think this will affect dentistry in Canada? Why would the CDA do this when there's an obvious saturation of dentists in urban areas?

[Flow Cytometry]

This probably will raise the already high competition of jobs in Canada. New grads, from UBC Dent for example, already have a tough time to find a job within the city.

[Dr Pepper]

Australian dental school accredition and now this? haha wow...maybe I made a bad choice...

 

I'm assuming CDA gets paid quite a bit for passing things like this.

[riazo]

lets wait and see how FTD's score on these exams. No one really knows, but I would guess that it will be extremely tough to pass these exams. And you only get 2 chances to write it.

 

FTD still have the option of completing the 2 year qualifying years also.

[alphacow]

The exam should not be too difficult. Our dean predicts at least a 20% passing rate. 20% of 1500 applicants is 300! Canada only graduates ~600 dentists a year....

 

Any ideal why the CDA suddenly decided to do this?

[picopiko]

How often do these policies change?

 

also wondering who exactly decides this sort of thing.

[Ostracized]

This is something that dental students and dentists in Canada should be worried about. We are already (arguably) graduating too many dentists in this country. This decision could ultimately have us spending our careers fighting over patients and making very little money.

[mazaag]

Don't take your prof's words right away for granted. He might have heard it just as some gossip. He is probably doing so to turn away people who are in it for the money (im guessing)

Look up CDAC and CDA...nothing posted online! Trust me if they do this then the accredited programs at UoT, Western and Manitoba to train foreign dentists would dissolve...i doubt that would happen anytime soon.

 

Point is..we would have known and seen the news...so don't believe what is told to you until you check it yourself!

[mazaag]

hahaha...now that i checked it myself:

http://www.acfd.ca/en/info/index.html

 

Yup..i guess your prof was truthful hehe. But there is something like this similar in pharmacy as well...the passing rate of the board exams is very low and most people who end up going through a university program have a better passing rate.

 

I wouldn't be too worried myself...all these organizations would not go ahead with these approvals if they thought canada is saturated in general!

[Adversary]

Actually, UBC planned for this - notice the increase number of spots in each class compared to the pass. It was 40 spots every year until 2 or 3 years ago where it was bumped to 50. They are anticipating a possible end to the 10-spots IDDCP program.

 

Don't take your prof's words right away for granted. He might have heard it just as some gossip. He is probably doing so to turn away people who are in it for the money (im guessing)

Look up CDAC and CDA...nothing posted online! Trust me if they do this then the accredited programs at UoT, Western and Manitoba to train foreign dentists would dissolve...i doubt that would happen anytime soon.

 

Point is..we would have known and seen the news...so don't believe what is told to you until you check it yourself!

[cleanup]

So I've made a terrible career choice?

[Ostracized]

So I've made a terrible career choice?

 

Obviously not, but consider that teachers in Toronto make >$90K for most of their career, get 12+ weeks vacation per year and get tons of benefits (pension, sickdays that carry forward, free CE, etc). A dentist in Toronto might average $100K, but works 50 weeks/year with zero benefits or safety net, and has at least 2 years more schooling.

[jg1928]

so these foreign dentists (if they do pass the exam) can work as general dentists in Canada?

what about specialized dentists who have done their specialty training outside of Canada, do they need to pass other tests?

[Ostracized]

so these foreign dentists (if they do pass the exam) can work as general dentists in Canada?

what about specialized dentists who have done their specialty training outside of Canada, do they need to pass other tests?

 

I'm fairly certain that the system to license foreign-trained specialists in Canada has already existed for several years.

[Dr Pepper]

Obviously not, but consider that teachers in Toronto make >$90K for most of their career, get 12+ weeks vacation per year and get tons of benefits (pension, sickdays that carry forward, free CE, etc). A dentist in Toronto might average $100K, but works 50 weeks/year with zero benefits or safety net, and has at least 2 years more schooling.

 

I think you have been misinformed...teachers do not make that kinda money for sure...especially nowadays, with the supersaturation of teachers that's worse than the dentists in Toronto...I have a few friends in that field, they told me they'd be lucky to be making 50k in their career IF THEY GET A JOB...

[Dr Pepper]

so these foreign dentists (if they do pass the exam) can work as general dentists in Canada?

what about specialized dentists who have done their specialty training outside of Canada, do they need to pass other tests?

 

From the site Mazaag quoted:

 

Graduates of Non-accredited speicalty programs

 

The Association of Canadian Faculties of Dentistry (ACFD/AFDC) facilitates graduates of non-accredited dental specialty programs in becoming licensed practitioners in Canada by providing the Dental Specialty Core Knowledge Examination (DSCKE). The DSCKE is used to facilitate the admission process for entry into Dental Specialty Assessment and Training Programs (DSATP) offered by some Canadian Faculties of Dentistry.

[koft]

I wouldn't panic right now, because no one really know how many will pass this 3 parts exam.

 

As for teacher making > 90k.. unless you are at a very senior level or vp.... Most of my friends who teach at TDSB, YDSB don't make half that amount. I will give it to you regarding their benefits and pensions. Beside finding a job as a teacher is even harder than getting a job an associate dentist in the GTA!

 

Are we graduating too many dds/dmd? If everyone wants to go to GTA/GVR, okay for sure, there are many small town who only have 1 or no dentist at all.. And those who work in those cmmunities had no trouble making an amazing living.

 

As for dental specialist. Those pass the 3 parts exam, will be no diff from graduating from ITD program. They can't call themselves a specialist, even if they have been trained in their home country as one. However, one has to realize that as a GP you can do whatever procedure you want within your training level, just as long as you don't screw up.

________

Vapolution

[Swollof]

Hmm that's funny... I've heard about this new equivalency process for some time now, maybe 6 months, and I didn't realize that it wasn't already available. I guess it's just still becoming common knowledge.

 

I've heard that, in order to prevent the increasing saturation that everyone fears, the set of 3 exams will be very very difficult. I believe that each one will cost about $4000 to take as well, so I suppose it can't be seen as the "easy" route. Although, that's still a lot less than doing an international program. I've also heard that you've only got one shot to pass it or else your only option would be to go through an international program.

 

However, if 1500 foreign dentists have already signed up, and say that the pass rate is 15-20%, then there would be another 300 dentists throughout Canada. I really can't see how that would be stopped, and, that just can't be good for local dentists.

[Swollof]

Actually, I missed Riazo's post earlier...

 

FTD's will get two chances to pass this equivalency process.

 

Yeah, this seems like a pretty big deal. I guess we'll only know in a year's time.

[Dr Pepper]

So I want to get something straight.

 

What exactly is the change? Did the internationally trained dentists HAD TO go through the international programs in Canada in order to practice here before this? So this 3 step test wasn't available before?

 

So before for an internationally trained dentist to practice here: Must go through ITD program.

Now: Can go through ITD program OR the equivalency program to practice here?

 

I guess if this is true then there can only be more new dentists/year, whether or not this number is high.

[Ostracized]

Dr. Pepper - prior to 2011, the number of new FTDs in Canada is limited by the number of qualifying program seats in the country (~100 or so?). After 2011, there is strictly no hard limit to the number of new FTDs.

[alphacow]

If I remember correctly, back in the mid 1990s Foreign trained dentists could challenge the boards. The CDA shut this down in the late 1990s. Anyone know why they're allowing this again?

[mazaag]

I really think its demand and supply, I feel that in the next few years there will be a lot of retiring dentists, they are probably trying to accommodate for that! Who knows..maybe they ll eliminate the process again down the line!

[chuao]

Hi everyone,

 

It is absolutely understandable to feel some anxiety about this change, however I would like to share my point of view with you all.

 

According to statcan (2006 census) The total population of the country is 31+ milllion, with only 18,400 dentists, this represents the 0.11% of the workforce nationally. This means that each dentist have to take care of 1,718 patients. Assuming each patient goes only twice a year. it will mean for a dentist working 250 days a year (five days a week, two weeks vacation) 13.74 appointments per day.

 

Now, not counting the retiring dentists, if we add 500 (not 300 which is the most common guesstimate of the forum) new FTD to these numbers the scenario only changes to 13.38 appointments per day.

 

Please throw in there the demographics of babyboomers retiring, and the specialist who don't do general dentistry anymore and I believe you will sleep tighter tonight.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Cheers everyone.

[bloh]

According to latest figures by WHO (http://www.who.int/research/en/).

 

# of dentists per 1000:

 

Canada 1.18

US 1.63

Aus 1.46

 

Somehow I don't see this as a bad thing.