Ostracized Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's scary but the RCDSO has said that they will not accept mutual recognition of licensure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookiemonster99 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's scary but the RCDSO has said that they will not accept mutual recognition of licensure. um...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostracized Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Irwin Pfeffergrad (RCDSO registrar) has said they will fight any ruling on 'permit to permit' registration. All dentists in Ontario must meet their requirements for licensure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual reality Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Web blog I created a blog on this topic. https://toomanydentistsincanada.wordpress.com Please feel free to comment and share! MA DMD 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianDDS Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Web blog I created a blog on this topic. https://toomanydentistsincanada.wordpress.com Please feel free to comment and share! MA DMD 2012 This is excellent thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual reality Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The new blog is this: www.dentistryincanada.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostracized Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 With the Canadian dollar being what it is now, I'm hoping that will deter people from leaving the country for training. NYU would cost $650,000 Canadian now. Most US/Australian schools would cost at least $450,000 Canadian. Is anyone still considering that route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannny Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 With the Canadian dollar being what it is now, I'm hoping that will deter people from leaving the country for training. NYU would cost $650,000 Canadian now. Most US/Australian schools would cost at least $450,000 Canadian. Is anyone still considering that route? It's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I feel bad for the D1s who made the decision to attend this year before the big drops in currency(well it was already low. But looks like its going lower and lower in the short-term) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwopremed Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 With the Canadian dollar being what it is now, I'm hoping that will deter people from leaving the country for training. NYU would cost $650,000 Canadian now. Most US/Australian schools would cost at least $450,000 Canadian. Is anyone still considering that route? NYU would actually be close 675000 CAD for a 4 year course with the 70/100 exchange rate presuming no foreign exchange fees - and also presuming you are living VERY BARE bones in Manhattan. If you want a small 1 bedroom for yourself, and want to eat out and go out a couple times of month, and have some decent clothe3s - you are probably looking at close to 750 000 over the 4 year period. During which, you are making ZERO money. But the demand is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odhopeful Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 With the Canadian dollar being what it is now, I'm hoping that will deter people from leaving the country for training. NYU would cost $650,000 Canadian now. Most US/Australian schools would cost at least $450,000 Canadian. Is anyone still considering that route? I agree this will affect # of applicants a bit, but I don't think it'll have that much of an impact. People will find ways to obtain funds to pursue lucrative degrees. Two of my friends are starting D-school in the states this year. One of them had to sell couple of their properties back where they're from, and the other one is using funds from multiple sources including his own savings. They both aren't from "affluent" families in Canadian standards, and i'm sure luck played a hand in there somewhere. But in any case, Kids will probably find ways to pay for D-school since we've been fed "Dentist make $$$" for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual reality Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I would never pay that much money to be a dentist in Canada. I have been out for over 3 years and worked and seen many clinics. It's NOT worth it. You can go to a dental school in Mexico or India and come back and get your license through the back door (the equivalency exams). DMD 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I agree this will affect # of applicants a bit, but I don't think it'll have that much of an impact. People will find ways to obtain funds to pursue lucrative degrees. Two of my friends are starting D-school in the states this year. One of them had to sell couple of their properties back where they're from, and the other one is using funds from multiple sources including his own savings. They both aren't from "affluent" families in Canadian standards, and i'm sure luck played a hand in there somewhere. But in any case, Kids will probably find ways to pay for D-school since we've been fed "Dentist make $$$" for a long time. If you have 600k lying around...you by definition are not non-affluent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odhopeful Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 If you have 600k lying around...you by definition are not non-affluent.... You don't need 600k lying around in one shot for D-school. Many get the CIBC 275k loan and extend it afterwards to study in the states. Some have family connections and American cosigners. Others sell properties, get multiple loans signed by multiple cosigners, use personal savings from work etc. My point (or opinion rather) was, i don't think Canadian dollar being in the dump would all of a sudden drastically decrease dental school applicants going abroad. This isn't even considering that weak Canadian dollar does nothing to the people going to Australia for Dschool. AUD/CAD has been roughly similar for years now. Even if all of a sudden people stop going to the states, no one's stopping saturation coming from Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
567765 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I think the whole argument is now pointless. The folks in power want the equivalency process in place and so it should be in place. Dentists from equivalency process seem to have clinical experience from their home country and seem to open up practices in Ontario within short time frame, competing with already present practices and taking some of their patients. This system seem to hurt mostly the practice owners in Ontario. But they are not complaining for a reduced salary on this forum, so I presume everything is still fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 You don't need 600k lying around in one shot for D-school. Many get the CIBC 275k loan and extend it afterwards to study in the states. Some have family connections and American cosigners. Others sell properties, get multiple loans signed by multiple cosigners, use personal savings from work etc. My point (or opinion rather) was, i don't think Canadian dollar being in the dump would all of a sudden drastically decrease dental school applicants going abroad. This isn't even considering that weak Canadian dollar does nothing to the people going to Australia for Dschool. AUD/CAD has been roughly similar for years now. Even if all of a sudden people stop going to the states, no one's stopping saturation coming from Australia. The 275k CIBC is supposed to go through all the way. There is no "extending", that is the goal amount. And unless you then can somehow convince them to give you more(like putting another house on the line etc. Still unlikely), you aren't getting any. And again selling off properties is not something non-affluent typically have as an option. Having excess saved earnings not tied to debt payments or cash flow considerations, again is not a sign of non-affluence. Sorry just trying to make it clear that if you are going to the US now with the current low dollar it is highly likely you have to be affluent. Or like you said lucky enough to have a US cosigner loan. I agree though, with the weak CAD, Australia is definitely the more preffered option over US for dental school, with intent of returning to Canada for practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odhopeful Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 The 275k CIBC is supposed to go through all the way. There is no "extending", that is the goal amount. And unless you then can somehow convince them to give you more(like putting another house on the line etc. Still unlikely), you aren't getting any. And again selling off properties is not something non-affluent typically have as an option. Having excess saved earnings not tied to debt payments or cash flow considerations, again is not a sign of non-affluence. Sorry just trying to make it clear that if you are going to the US now with the current low dollar it is highly likely you have to be affluent. Or like you said lucky enough to have a US cosigner loan. I agree though, with the weak CAD, Australia is definitely the more preffered option over US for dental school, with intent of returning to Canada for practice. Fair enough. I don't disagree with what you're saying. And you can extend the CIBC 275k loan without putting more assets as collateral. I know someone who did just that to pay for MSUCOM. I don't know if this is common or not but it isn't as impossible as you're suggesting. Although i agree with your premise.. you can't count on it to bail you out since they only give you 50k-60k extra on top of 275k provided you give them good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Fair enough. I don't disagree with what you're saying. And you can extend the CIBC 275k loan without putting more assets as collateral. I know someone who did just that to pay for MSUCOM. I don't know if this is common or not but it isn't as impossible as you're suggesting. Although i agree with your premise.. you can't count on it to bail you out since they only give you 50k-60k extra on top of 275k provided you give them good reasons. I find it highly unlikely that the bank gave them more on top of the 275K to attend a US school. The logical understanding is that they must have had really good cosigners, or that they switched to a Home Equity LOC? Either way, kudos to them. As you said, you can't count on that - nor would even that measly 50K CAD be enough anyways (especially at MSUCOM where their tuition is outrageous compared to other DO programs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual reality Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 I think the whole argument is now pointless. The folks in power want the equivalency process in place and so it should be in place. Dentists from equivalency process seem to have clinical experience from their home country and seem to open up practices in Ontario within short time frame, competing with already present practices and taking some of their patients. This system seem to hurt mostly the practice owners in Ontario. But they are not complaining for a reduced salary on this forum, so I presume everything is still fine. I don't think the situation can't be changed. I think we need to lobby for the change and it will happen. There are winners and losers from the equivalency process. Baby boomers who are selling their practices and/or holding positions in provincial associations are winners. New dentists coming out of school are losers. Foreign trained dentists are winners. Realtors, brokers, and dental supply companies are winners. Patients are actually winners. Specialists are neither winners or losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffbur Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 I don't think the situation can't be changed. I think we need to lobby for the change and it will happen. There are winners and losers from the equivalency process. Baby boomers who are selling their practices and/or holding positions in provincial associations are winners. New dentists coming out of school are losers. Foreign trained dentists are winners. Realtors, brokers, and dental supply companies are winners. Patients are actually winners. Specialists are neither winners or losers. RCDSO is winner because they monopoly the malpractice insurance and increase of patients complaints create more revenue for them. specialists are losers because few dentist will refer out as competition increase, and instead of going to specialists, patients will go to dentists who will do the complicated work because of cheaper price.. one example, one endo specialist suggest college that GP should not do molar endo until they have done 20 simple endos. why, because he can not get enough referral. Patients ultimately are losers because of low quality service, below-standard work, over treatment, and insurance fraud. 80 dollar cleaning can not be worthy of 4 unit scaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koft Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 RCDSO is winner because they monopoly the malpractice insurance and increase of patients complaints create more revenue for them. specialists are losers because few dentist will refer out as competition increase, and instead of going to specialists, patients will go to dentists who will do the complicated work because of cheaper price.. one example, one endo specialist suggest college that GP should not do molar endo until they have done 20 simple endos. why, because he can not get enough referral. Patients ultimately are losers because of low quality service, below-standard work, over treatment, and insurance fraud. 80 dollar cleaning can not be worthy of 4 unit scaling. I don't see RCDSO as winner, as malpractice insurance is out source to insurance company. It is only there to cover the initial 2M, anything greater you have to get it elsewhere. Well to say to do 20 endos before able to do sound reasonable, but the suggestion is invalid. I am an OMS, I have seen so many f'up from GP ENDO, and Ortho taking on cases that they shouldn't have done. Ortho, yes your teeth are straight, but your midline is way off to one side. Relapse on treating anterior open bite. Too aggressive treatment leading to severe root resorption. Endo, gutta percha into alveolar canal causing paresthesia. I am not saying mishap doesn't happen with specialist, but there are differences between mishaps vs. gross negligence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffbur Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Other dental college does not collect malpractice insurance. RCDSO set this as mandatory. I guess RCDSO want it to be convenient for dentist ? Specialists have less mishap than GP. However, when GPs do not have enough work because of market saturation, they will become more aggressive instead of referring patient out. Can complaints from patient and discipline from college prevent GPs from taking risk when they cannot work enough to maintain an office and everybody else is doing cases they they shouldn't do? I doubt it. I am sure patients are the ultimate losers in this. RCDSO is doing nothing even their job is to protect the public as they claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianDDS Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I don't think the drop in the Canadian doctor will stop people from attending dental school in the states. There are a lot of desperate mediocre students who they themselves and their parents will do anything for them to attach Dr. to their name. The only think that will stop anything is at the government level as long as back doors are open people will use them. It's the government who needs to close these back doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostracized Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 If you literally can't get the funds to attend US schools you won't. With schools costing in excess of $600,000, it's obvious that unless you come from a fairly wealthy family you can't attend. Student loans, even private loans, will not cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianDDS Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 If you literally can't get the funds to attend US schools you won't. With schools costing in excess of $600,000, it's obvious that unless you come from a fairly wealthy family you can't attend. Student loans, even private loans, will not cut it. Yea I get what your saying but before the drop of the canadian dollar I know american dent grads had at least $400 000 american debt and I was wondering the same thing, where were they getting this money from? I know so many who do not come from well off families (I know this for a fact that their families were not well off) and I know Canadian banks were not giving them that amount so I am still confused how they got the funds. Can anyone who graduated from an american school who is not from a well off family provide insight to this (I don't know if anyone will respond to this request lol). But i'm dying of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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