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Opening the flood gates: Foreign dentists can challenge the boards in 2011

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I graduated in 2012 and had a hard time finding a decent associate position in a decent city.

 

In addition to dentists coming from the US and Australia, Canada is accepting an increasing number of foreign-trained dentists who might not even be Canadian citizens or permanent residents by putting them through a couple of written and practical exams on plastic teeth!

 

In 2010, only 30-40 FTDs passed the Canadian boards.

In 2011, the number was 125

In 2012, over 200 FTDs got their license!

 

Stop the madness. Let's talk to our MPs and regulatory colleges asap.

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I graduated in 2012 and had a hard time finding a decent associate position in a decent city.

 

In addition to dentists coming from the US and Australia, Canada is accepting an increasing number of foreign-trained dentists who might not even be Canadian citizens or permanent residents by putting them through a couple of written and practical exams on plastic teeth!

 

In 2010, only 30-40 FTDs passed the Canadian boards.

In 2011, the number was 125

In 2012, over 200 FTDs got their license!

 

Stop the madness. Let's talk to our MPs and regulatory colleges asap.

 

Yeah, we really need to voice our opinion!

 

I'm afraid we will see something similar to what has happened in pharmacy!

I'm just wondering how on earth CDA approved this stupid idea.

 

I also know quite a few dentists who graduated from UofT and they all say that getting a job (even a part-time job) is not easy and will get even worse in the future.

 

Finding a place to practice? They think it's only their dream. Even places like New Market or Aurora are super saturated now and they would have to move even more north to find a place to practice.

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I graduated in 2012 and had a hard time finding a decent associate position in a decent city.

 

In addition to dentists coming from the US and Australia, Canada is accepting an increasing number of foreign-trained dentists who might not even be Canadian citizens or permanent residents by putting them through a couple of written and practical exams on plastic teeth!

 

In 2010, only 30-40 FTDs passed the Canadian boards.

In 2011, the number was 125

In 2012, over 200 FTDs got their license!

 

Stop the madness. Let's talk to our MPs and regulatory colleges asap.

 

Why not let consumers decide who they want to hire as their dentist? Those who prefer a Canadian-trained dentist can get that, while those who like a US dentist can get that, Australian, South African, Iranian, all available. Artificial restriction of labour supply is not the answer.

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Why not let consumers decide who they want to hire as their dentist? Those who prefer a Canadian-trained dentist can get that, while those who like a US dentist can get that, Australian, South African, Iranian, all available. Artificial restriction of labour supply is not the answer.

 

Well that's already the case, especially for residents who do not speak fluent English and have to resort to dentists who speak their native language. But that hasn't solved anything, now has it?!

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expand dentistry, medical, pharmacy colleges

 

= expanding teachers/workforce of highly educated immigrats

 

 

= increase prosperity, job opportunities and growth

 

 

Now,

 

college system with 0/stagnant growth with a massive growing population of highschool/undergrad education

 

forcing most to go abroad

and come back only to saturate a stagnant market

 

 

who wins? australia

the colleges who took these students,

expenses they had from tuition to living expenses

 

 

the Canadian government is to stupid and bloated to make any changes

 

bureaucratic growth has outpaced health/professional education

 

 

...it will only blow up in their faces

 

this is what Greece experienced

 

let it all blow up is what i say

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expand dentistry, medical, pharmacy colleges

 

= expanding teachers/workforce of highly educated immigrats

 

 

= increase prosperity, job opportunities and growth

 

 

Now,

 

college system with 0/stagnant growth with a massive growing population of highschool/undergrad education

 

forcing most to go abroad

and come back only to saturate a stagnant market

 

 

who wins? australia

the colleges who took these students,

expenses they had from tuition to living expenses

 

 

the Canadian government is to stupid and bloated to make any changes

 

bureaucratic growth has outpaced health/professional education

 

 

...it will only blow up in their faces

 

this is what Greece experienced

 

let it all blow up is what i say

 

Not medicine though, CarMS is doing a really good job at controlling the amout of residency spots for IMG students.

 

It was obvious what's happened to pharmacists after opening up the gates and allowing foreign pharmacists in Canada.

So I thought CDA would never approve this stupid thing but apparently they did! What a shame!!

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Not medicine though, CarMS is doing a really good job at controlling the amout of residency spots for IMG students.

 

It was obvious what's happened to pharmacists after opening up the gates and allowing foreign pharmacists in Canada.

So I thought CDA would never approve this stupid thing but apparently they did! What a shame!!

 

I disagree..medicine has done it too. the CPSO granted more practice licenses in its history this past year; and this was led by a record number of certifications for foreign medical graduates. These physicians were certified without even having to go through a Canadian residency program. No one is immune.

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I disagree..medicine has done it too. the CPSO granted more practice licenses in its history this past year; and this was led by a record number of certifications for foreign medical graduates. These physicians were certified without even having to go through a Canadian residency program. No one is immune.

 

Firstly, I know a handful of people who are CSA (Candians studying aboard) and decided to match for their residency, but no luck. They chose to do their residency in Australia (where they obtained their MD/MBBS) for 4 years there with wishful thinking that they can just come back after they're done with their residency with the CPSO. However, only 1 out of 5 people I know was able to come back because of high restriction from the CPSO. It is very uncommon and rare to get practice license if you're an IMG, not to mention they still have to do the RoS (Return of Service) in a rural area for minimum of 5 years. Do this kind of conditions apply to foreign trained dentists coming to Canada? No! They can start practicing right away once they get their license!

 

Also, the only person I know who were able to get the practice license was for FM (Family Medicine) and it is a lot harder to get if you're looking into top specialties such as Derm, Ortho, Rad, etc. Of course you can get certified through CPSO without having to go through a Canadian residency program, just like you can obtain a MD degree and come back to Canada for residency program without having to go through a Canadian medical school, but bare in mind that both ways are possible but very hard to achieve because they are aware of the backdoor system and do not favour them at all. This is why most people say try canaidan med schools (and us md) at least 2-3 times before deciding to go aboard because you're going to be facing a lot of uphill battles. No matter what you'll be discriminated if you're an IMG and only the best out of them can come back and take the jobs that the CMGs (canadian medical graduates) favoures the least.

 

I'm not sure if you still see the CDA treating FTD the same way as CaRMS (canadian residency matching system) dealing with IMGs, but if you really look into how the system works, they're completely different!

 

my point is: CDA is not controlling the number of dentists in Canada enough by allowing foreign trained dentists over the world to practice in Canada very easily! The stats says it all! Not to mention all the international students coming to Canada already!!

 

What will happen to future dentists?? You know the answer..

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There was an online presentation regarding the NDEB EE process a few weeks ago.

http://www.cdsbc.org/~ASSETS/DOCUMENT/BCDA_CE_Jack_Gerrow.pdf

 

During the presentation it was mentioned that NDEB was asked to create such an exam to allow path for foreign trained dentists to come in. When asked if they have a limit cap on the number of dentists that could pass thru the exams each year, the answer was no. NDEB's job was purely to assess whether the applicant has the qualification to challenge the board exam. As long as the applicant passes the assessments, they will be deemed as qualified.

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There was an online presentation regarding the NDEB EE process a few weeks ago.

http://www.cdsbc.org/~ASSETS/DOCUMENT/BCDA_CE_Jack_Gerrow.pdf

 

During the presentation it was mentioned that NDEB was asked to create such an exam to allow path for foreign trained dentists to come in. When asked if they have a limit cap on the number of dentists that could pass thru the exams each year, the answer was no. NDEB's job was purely to assess whether the applicant has the qualification to challenge the board exam. As long as the applicant passes the assessments, they will be deemed as qualified.

 

I'm not sure if someone still can call me a troll for saying these FACTS that they can't deny.

 

so that means if 5000 FTDs over the world challenge the exam and 1000 pass all the qualification tests, then here we have 1000 more dentists in our market????

 

That's A LOT of dentists and I can only imagine what our dental market will look like in the near future!! We already have oversaturation of dentists in almost all cities! :eek:

 

more FTDs in dental market that's already saturated --> more saturation in MOST cities (including rural ones) --> more competition among dentists --> income of dentists go down every year --> more bankruptcy from dental practices & harder to start a new practice after graduation --> this will get worse every year

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reddishh, clearly you are just a fat cat dentist, worried about not buying that second Aston Martin. /s

 

reddishh is obviously overreacting here, but I think dentists need to address these issues to CDA. Even if it doesn't work out well, it's worth a try IMO

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Where as, Canadian-trained dentists:

Go through many years of education (on average 2-4 years of undergrad and 4 years of dental school.) They must be bright students too.

Incur about 150-300K of debt during those years.

There is a maximum number of graduates every year.

must be permanent residents or Canadian citizens.

 

Foreign trained dentists:

No set maximum number of licenses

Can go to dental school straight out of high school.

Receive their license without seeing a single Canadian patient. Practical exams are on plastic teeth.

Foreign credentials might be fake and sometimes difficult to verify.

Practical exams don’t cover all aspects of dentistry: no dentures, root canal treatments, orthodontics.

Canadian citizenship or permanent residence is not a requirement to challenge the exams and be registered in some provinces.

Exams only cost a few thousand dollars.

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Reddishh please write something to Dr. Arthur Worth, ODA president and rectify this issue. Dental students are too busy to studying for exams, otherwise we would.

Thank you.

 

I don't know if reddishh is a dental student or not, but are you being sarcastic when you say "dental students are too busy to rectify this issue?"

 

You either 1. see this issue very lightly 2. are lazy to do something that will

change your career greatly?

 

BTW, do you REALLY think dental students are too busy, they can't even write a letter or voice their issue? I don't think so. I think you're just having a really bad attitude.

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otherwise we would.

Thank you.

 

No you wouldn't.

 

And I'm not doing a job you're supposed to do :D

 

Honestly, I expected a better excuse than a "we have to study for exams" Who doesn't have exams? And please don't think all dental students are like you- hoping someone will cover your a$$, and not caring about your career

 

thank you

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No we really don't have time. 24 exams, and counting. Don't believe? ask around.

But regardless,

If you aren't doing it yourself, then why do you keep telling us all of these?If You thing it's an issue, you should write the letter to the appropriate representative.

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No we really don't have time. 24 exams, and counting. Don't believe? ask around.

But regardless,

If you aren't doing it yourself, then why do you keep telling us all of these?If You thing it's an issue, you should write the letter to the appropriate representative.

 

well, it's to not mislead pre-dents.

 

Anyway, you say don't have time to write a letter but have time to read and respond to this?

 

Trust me, I know at least 30 dental students around me, and they ALL have time to write this. Some of them went to St.Patrick's party with me last night, and I'm pretty sure writing a letter takes less than 1 hour. If you've had time to sleep (of course you have, otherwise you wouldn't be alive), or eat, then you can't say you didn't have this 1 hour to write a letter since last year. So you're obviously lying.

 

It's not about lack of time, it's about lack of awareness. Just admit it!

 

BTW, I urge you to erase the statement "otherwise we would" because

 

1. you obviously had a lot of time to write this letter if you were willing to, but you just didn't because you were either lazy or ignorant

2. you're generalizing all dental students that they are like you

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well, it's to not mislead pre-dents.

 

Anyway, you say don't have time to write a letter but have time to read and respond to this?

 

Trust me, I know at least 30 dental students around me, and they ALL have time to write this. Some of them went to St.Patrick's party with me last night, and I'm pretty sure writing a letter takes less than 1 hour. If you've had time to sleep (of course you have, otherwise you wouldn't be alive), or eat, then you can't say you didn't have this 1 hour to write a letter since last year. So you're obviously lying.

 

It's not about lack of time, it's about lack of awareness. Just admit it!

 

BTW, I urge you to erase the statement "otherwise we would" because

 

1. you obviously had a lot of time to write this letter if you were willing to, but you just didn't because you were either lazy or ignorant

2. you're generalizing all dental students that they are like you

 

So I guess your 30 dental student friends must have written such letter already, right? If not, since they have the time, they must not share the same concern?

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So I guess your 30 dental student friends must have written such letter already, right? If not, since they have the time, they must not share the same concern?

 

well, that i don't know. All I know is they have enough TIME to do that unlike what you described. What made you think that "we dental students are too busy to write this letter"?

 

It's just nonesense that you don't have time to just write one letter. and you said "we all dental students" too. So you shouldn't have said you would write it only if you dind't have many exams in the first place.

 

In fact, you DO have time to write, or at least have had the time to write a letter but you were just being lazy. So even if you don't have exams to study for, you WOULDN'T write a letter.

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reddishh, you are one of the biggest trolls on these forums, and everyone knows it. You pretend to be a know-it-all, when half the time you don't make any sense at all. I'm not sure why you are being so misleading and negative all the time. Maybe you don't want people to apply to the same schools as you so you can finally get into a school. I don't think your plan is really working since everyone by now knows you're a troll. Please listen to mcatwannabe and stop trolling on these forums, and instead take the initiative yourself if you truly think it is an issue. I know you're probably going to reply back to this, like you always do write a story whenever someone says something that you don't agree with. Save yourself the time, and don't. It's probably not going to be any different than the rest of your posts; really immature, ill-tempered, and unintelligible. Hope you can understand.

 

well, that i don't know. All I know is they have enough TIME to do that unlike what you described. What made you think that "we dental students are too busy to write this letter"?

 

It's just nonesense that you don't have time to just write one letter. and you said "we all dental students" too. So you shouldn't have said you would write it only if you dind't have many exams in the first place.

 

In fact, you DO have time to write, or at least have had the time to write a letter but you were just being lazy. So even if you don't have exams to study for, you WOULDN'T write a letter.

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reddishh, you are one of the biggest trolls on these forums, and everyone knows it. You pretend to be a know-it-all, when half the time you don't make any sense at all. I'm not sure why you are being so misleading and negative all the time. Maybe you don't want people to apply to the same schools as you so you can finally get into a school. I don't think your plan is really working since everyone by now knows you're a troll. Please listen to mcatwannabe and stop trolling on these forums, and instead take the initiative yourself if you truly think it is an issue. I know you're probably going to reply back to this, like you always do write a story whenever someone says something that you don't agree with. Save yourself the time, and don't. It's probably not going to be any different than the rest of your posts; really immature, ill-tempered, and unintelligible. Hope you can understand.

 

which of my statements were not making sense? you saif half of the time I don't make any sense but you're not giving ANY examples.

 

even for this thread, it's all true that more foreign dentists will take our jobs and our market will get even more saturated. Which part do you not agree with? More foreign dentists allowed to come? Dental field is saturated in almost all cities? It will get more saturated in the future? Just tell me why you think I'm not making any sense!

 

you can't even deny my pointsbut just keep saying I'm a troll.

 

I understand you would feel really bad hearing all these news as a predents, but we must tell the right story to the kids who probably don't know anything about it.

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