Medical School Second Undergrad Degree Policies (Updated Aug 8, 2012)

[juniorsenior]

Just got an email back from Western

 

if you are doing your new degree in 2 years, they look it as you're doing a 3rd and 4th year.

 

 

So what if you need to take first year and second courses that are required...you're screwed

 

 

 

This is exactly the trouble Im having. I HAVE to take these 1st year courses. Different schools have different requirements for their medical program admissions, so do other schools and their requirements for the degree.....

 

I understand what they're getting at, not wanting to have cherry pickers take easy first year courses to boost their GPA. 

[Siefer1322]

Does anyone know if Dalhousie looks negatively on courses in which you did bad in your first degree? They have a stipulation saying that if you did poorly in courses, or passed with a low grade prior to the two recent years then admission will be impossible. Does that mean that it will affect how they look at your second degree? Or if you killed your second degree (no low grades) do they look at the courses only from the second degree?

 

I hope my question makes sense. 

 

I don't believe anyone answered this question. I came across this line in their website as well and had the same thoughts. Can anyone offer any information about this? If I have 0% chance in gaining interview at the school, I rather not spend money applying to it as I am already in tight spot as is it. Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks!

[t0ny]

I don't believe anyone answered this question. I came across this line in their website as well and had the same thoughts. Can anyone offer any information about this? If I have 0% chance in gaining interview at the school, I rather not spend money applying to it as I am already in tight spot as is it. Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks!

I can't say for certain, but if it is like McGill then they don't look at your previous degree if you completed your second degree. However, they might in terms of your PreReqs. I would email admissions to ask about this, it is the best way to get an answer

[xiaoyy]

Whenever I'm feeling down, I look at this post... Hopefully there's still light at the end of the tunnel when pursuing a second degree.

[t0ny]

Whenever I'm feeling down, I look at this post... Hopefully there's still light at the end of the tunnel when pursuing a second degree.

There is. Don't give up i've been there and it works out

[Pablo]

I posted this in the other pinned second undergrad thread, so apologies for double posting:

How do schools look at shortened degree length and lack of a second transcript? For example, at my university, I can complete a second four year undergrad in two years with the prerequisites from my first degree. Will med schools consider this second undergrad, if it's only two years of fulltime study?

Second, while I receive two degrees, I don't receive two transcripts. The registrar stated that you receive two transcripts with a cumulative GPA, but I could request a letter to delineate between my first and second degree. The first four year and second two year undergrad would also be separated by a year off, where I was not enrolled.

I want to achieve the second degree at the same school, as it would be more cost effective for me to remain in my current city then to relocate for a second undergrad. I would consider an online degree, but I would also like to network more at my institution, and I'm not sure how med schools view online degrees.

[Rahvin13]

On 2017-04-05 at 3:42 PM, Siefer1322 said:

 

I don't believe anyone answered this question. I came across this line in their website as well and had the same thoughts. Can anyone offer any information about this? If I have 0% chance in gaining interview at the school, I rather not spend money applying to it as I am already in tight spot as is it. Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks!

Spoke with Dal recently regarding this and other things. They only look at "the degree submitted for assessment" so if you have a 2nd degree that's all they look at, don't look at your 1st degree at all, failed courses, low grades, doesn't matter. Dal also has no specific course prerequisites so no worries there either.

You are still required to submit the transcripts from previous degree(s) though, and your second degree must meet the degree requirements (either 90 or 120 credits), regardless of your 1st degree. This is what was told to me by admissions.

[Pablo]

bump?

[kween]

I know this thread hasn't been updated for a while now, but I have some info on UofT's MD Program (Accurate as of 2017). This was released as part of the "admissions blog". There is other info as well, such as wGPA calculations and Non-Degree Students.

Quote

Second Degree

Another option for applicants who do not meet our GPA requirements is to enroll in a second degree. If there is a significant difference between the GPA of your two degrees, you may apply for special consideration to be assessed on only one of your degrees, as part of the Academic Explanations Essay. The essay will be reviewed by the admissions committee, and no decision on how your application was assessed will be released to you.

Source (2017): https://www.md.utoronto.ca/news/admissions-blog-upgrading-your-gpa

[rmorelan]

6 minutes ago, kween said:

I know this thread hasn't been updated for a while now, but I have some info on UofT's MD Program (Accurate as of 2017). This was released as part of the "admissions blog". There is other info as well, such as wGPA calculations and Non-Degree Students.

Source (2017): https://www.md.utoronto.ca/news/admissions-blog-upgrading-your-gpa

hey thanks for posting that - interesting! 

[kween]

14 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

hey thanks for posting that - interesting! 

haha no problem! I actually caught it while watching UofT's 2017 Admissions recap session!  

 

[t0ny]

On 4/14/2018 at 8:56 PM, kween said:

I know this thread hasn't been updated for a while now, but I have some info on UofT's MD Program (Accurate as of 2017). This was released as part of the "admissions blog". There is other info as well, such as wGPA calculations and Non-Degree Students.

 Source (2017): https://www.md.utoronto.ca/news/admissions-blog-upgrading-your-gpa

Damn. Wish I had of known this before, I didn't even have UoT on my list of applications for after my 2nd degree! Good to know for future applicants as it seems to be getting more difficult as certain schools (i.e. Western)

[firecracker]

Not sure if admins still update the sticky but the above about uoft would be a useful addition. 

Also, something else I found out for McMaster is that even though they look at grades for every course ever taken, they use a composite score for interview selection ie. GPA (min 3.0), CARS and CASPER all get equal weight (which was completely new to me because most schools emphasize GPA). Might give hope to those who do not have the best GPA but good CARS/CASPER. Bit of a shot in the dark since you never get to know how you did on casper, it's still a little better than the doom-and-gloom never escape first ugrad gpa lol 
post-interview is 70% interview 15% each GPA and CARS. 

[kween]

35 minutes ago, shortie said:

Not sure if admins still update the sticky but the above about uoft would be a useful addition. 

I really wish that they did. It seems that the person who started this thread hasn't been active for 4 years, and info from when this thread started hasn't been updated to match Western's new-ish policies on the second ugrad.

[firecracker]

2 minutes ago, kween said:

I really wish that they did. It seems that the person who started this thread hasn't been active for 4 years, and info from when this thread started hasn't been updated to match Western's new-ish policies on the second ugrad.

guess it's time for the next generation of non-trads to take the reins lol !

[Shipish]

Hi,

I have finished my first undergrad degree, and I am not happy with my marks as I had to struggle a lot as English is my second language. However, I have improved a lot and currently enrolled in a master degree (1-year program). I am thinking to do a second degree and hoping to apply to medical schools in Ontario. I am a bit confused whether taking 2-year program vs. 3-year program vs. 4-year program could put me in disadvantage for any of the schools in Ontario. Does anybody know anything about this topic and could help me? (could you please let me know your references, i.e., if its a website or a personal email you received)

THANK YOU!!!

[kween]

On 6/18/2018 at 12:48 PM, Shipish said:

Hi,

I have finished my first undergrad degree, and I am not happy with my marks as I had to struggle a lot as English is my second language. However, I have improved a lot and currently enrolled in a master degree (1-year program). I am thinking to do a second degree and hoping to apply to medical schools in Ontario. I am a bit confused whether taking 2-year program vs. 3-year program vs. 4-year program could put me in disadvantage for any of the schools in Ontario. Does anybody know anything about this topic and could help me? (could you please let me know your references, i.e., if its a website or a personal email you received)

THANK YOU!!!

 

Hey, 

 

I should start out by saying that I am a prospective applicant for a future cycle, and my contributions are based solely on research that I've done. Non-trads typically have very unique profiles, and it would be irresponsible of me to give a one-size-fits-all type of answer. I recommend that you explain your situation to the MD admissions people at each prospective university to get a better idea for your situation.

Anyways, your GPA from your first ugrad degree will usually follow you around. As I've pointed out before, uoft might consider only looking at your second ugrad degree only if you apply for special consideration status. Usually it involves a letter of explanation on why you got those grades and such. Some universities will look and your final 2-3 years (or credits/credit-hours) of university. I'm assuming that you took a course based ( 1 year) masters, which unfortunately for uoft, will not lower your prerequisite OMSAS GPA. UofT only lowers that for students who do a research based masters/PhD program (usually involving a dissertation of some sort). I would recommend doing a program that would fulfill the credit requirement for some universities.

 

For example Queens University requires a minimum of 30 half-credits or 15 full year credits to apply. This is roughly 2.5 years of university assuming a 5 course/semester workload.

but Western University states that

Quote

Applicants who embark on a second undergraduate degree program are eligible to apply during the final year of their new program. In order to be considered for GPA purposes, the second degree must be equivalent to a four-year degree. In this situation, GPA consideration will be based only on the two best years of the second degree program. Course load and course level requirements for the second degree are analogous to the requirements of the first degree. Applicants who are given a conditional offer must complete all program requirements for the second degree by June 30th

 

With Queens, and Western being the only realistic options for second degree applicants, it's probably best to choose a 3+ year degree program that provides the same degree as a 4 year program, usually an Honours degree program. Sometimes you can enroll into a 4 year program, and have transfer credits applied to it from the previous degree (provided the courses haven't expired) and you can complete your program in 3 years.

[IMislove]

.

[IMislove]

On 6/18/2018 at 12:48 PM, Shipish said:

Hi,

I have finished my first undergrad degree, and I am not happy with my marks as I had to struggle a lot as English is my second language. However, I have improved a lot and currently enrolled in a master degree (1-year program). I am thinking to do a second degree and hoping to apply to medical schools in Ontario. I am a bit confused whether taking 2-year program vs. 3-year program vs. 4-year program could put me in disadvantage for any of the schools in Ontario. Does anybody know anything about this topic and could help me? (could you please let me know your references, i.e., if its a website or a personal email you received)

THANK YOU!!!

 

 

I did a two year degree program and it was fine for queens, mcgill too. I would say Ottawa too as they look at last three years. Pm if any further questions. Just gotta find a degree that will land you a job you lioenif medicine doesn’t work out, and that you can excel in grade wise.

[Pablo]

Can anybody shine any light on how different schools view online courses? For example, to graduate on time I must take online courses during the summer. I understand some schools do not count summer courses, but how is online looked at? I have read they are not an accurate reflection because you're not balancing them with the same course load, dealing with classmates, etc.

However, I would like to know the specifics of each school. These are not science pre-reqs for any of the schools, just general requirements for my second degree.

[mp44518]

1

[SARA3000]

Hi everyone, I am currently in a similar situation. I did my undergrad at U of T in biochemistry and graduated with a 2.0 GPA. It was really hard to manage my job and a full course load. At the same time I was volunteering in the emergency ward at the hospital and also at a retirement home. I have about 400 hours of volunteering. I was doing okay during 1st and 2nd year and had hoped to increase my GPA during 3rd and 4th year, however  my family had to move out and I was taking more shifts at work to cover some expenses which had a huge impact on my grades. I also did my MCAT and finished with a 504. After my graduation, I took a 2 year break to work in a medical company and saved some money. I looked into other options such as nursing/ OT / continuing studies but I know for a fact that I would always regret not trying my best to become a physician. I am still young and I want to try all means to get into a medical school in Canada or US. I looked into Caribbean schools and I have friends that attend SGU and Saba as well, however I don't want to risk going there and not matching back into Canada. Also the tuition fees are excessively high and there is no way I could afford that.

So I am thinking of doing a 2nd bachelor degree in health studies. If medicine does not work, I will follow this up with a masters and try to get a government job. I know that my 2.0 cGPA from my first undergrad will follow me wherever I go and please do not leave comments such as medicine is not for you. I know my grades are mediocre but life happens and I am trying to rectify my mistakes. I am just  looking into different options before I make a life altering decision. If I finish my 2nd degree with a 3.9+ GPA and do good on my MCAT, do you think there is a chance for me to get into a school here?

I would greatly appreciate any advice.

 

Thank you

[Meridian]

Yes if you can do a +3.9 GPA in a 2nd undergrad and do well on the MCAT you could get interviews in Canada. 

It appears you do not have much to salvage from your 1st undergrad. Did you have any individual years over 3.7 GPA ?

Schools like MAC are out as they only use cumulative cGPA.   Look at schools like Western, Queens, Ottawa that only look at last/best 2-3 years. for wGPA.   Health Studies is reasonable approach.  Pick something you are interested in though as you are going to need to make a fundamental change in how you approach school to get the GPA you need.  Be careful of programs like Nursing which may have alot of P/F courses.

 

[Em__]

Is it just McGill who doesn't exige MCAT for Quebec students?
 

Em

[Sunshine!]

41 minutes ago, Em__ said:

Is it just McGill who doesn't exige MCAT for Quebec students?
 

Em

All the Québec francophone schools don’t require the MCAT. In Ontario, the University of Ottawa doesn’t require the MCAT for all the different streams (anglophone, francophone, CNFS)