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donnadee

shortage or oversupply??

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So I was talkingg to a couple of med buddies and was telling about my plans of entering dental school...they were skeptical about the demand...I tried to convince them that apart from GTA therr are areas with real shortage...but it made me wonder...are there areas in ontario with shortages??

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So I was talkingg to a couple of med buddies and was telling about my plans of entering dental school...they were skeptical about the demand...I tried to convince them that apart from GTA therr are areas with real shortage...but it made me wonder...are there areas in ontario with shortages??

 

Yes. Outside of the GTA.

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My room mate is finishing 4th year dent and the statement "there's no spots for dentists in GTA is false". To clarify, it's super hard to open up a NEW practice in the GTA, or to get a full-time partnership/associate position in an established practice. But there are plenty of clinics looking to hire new dentists.

 

My room mate said that if you want to get a job in the GTA, you might have to split time between two clinics, which for some people might be less than ideal. However, you can easily get the hours you want if you are willing to do this.

 

The second thing she mentioned is you have to know what type of work they are willing to give you. You might only be doing routine hygiene checks :[.

 

Just thought I'd clarify!

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That is dissapointing...so both scope of practice and salaries will be limited...working at 2 different practices are new associates able to touch the avg 120K mark??k:(

 

I think it would be hard to reach that 120 k mark. It would really depend on the offices that you become an associate at(depends on the patient cases, what work u end up billing for) But I can definitely confirm that working as associates at more then one clinic to try and get full time hours is the new reality for new grads in urban areas.. You would be lucky to just find a dentist that would hire u full time, unless u knew them prior and they had the need.

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That is dissapointing...so both scope of practice and salaries will be limited...working at 2 different practices are new associates able to touch the avg 120K mark??k:(

 

Talk to a dentist about it. The 120 K is NOT true ( maybe it is for GTA). Dentistry is about what you are offering and is all about you. How much education are you willing to get after you are done ? How much are you willing to invest on yourself after you are done ? How far are you willing to push yourself ? How good are you with people ? How good a sales person you are and ... The list goes On and On.

 

Don't become a dentist because of the money but because you love it and enjoy it. If you are no in love with it and will not enjoy it, then you WILL NOT make as much money and you WILL be miserable.

 

Best of Luck

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I'm not only interested in making money...I do have an interest in the profession...I just wanted to take comfort in the fact that leaving my current job and taking a loan with 4yrs of education, I will atleast be able to pay it back and get back on my feet with a salray indicative of the time spent in getting the education... I was just looking at some stats a while ago and it seems areas such as bruce have much higher salaries compared to gta..

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I'm in first year at UoT and heard from a couple of 4rth years that they have full time associate positions available in the GTA so i don't think the statements mentioned about splitting between clinics is really true. Unless you want to work downtown that is! The 120 should be fairly attainable and you can pay off your loans..just might take a short while.

But i do agree about what Xman said..how much you are willing to invest after will make a difference. Although if you do get hooked up with a good clinic and a mentor you will learn a lot and you will increase your potential!

Remember there are tons of places around toronto (waterloo, whitby..etc) where you can also easily find associate positions!

Also the average age of dentists is 46 in Canada and at some point we will see many retirements or dentists wanting to work less...so the future is not grim for us!

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can anyone who knows or has asked a new dentist please confirm how much associates in/outside GTA generally make within the first 2-3 years...thanks a lot!

 

Impossible to say, since every dentist makes different amounts based on patient-load (very important), speed, skill, etc.

 

I'm not sure if getting a good job is tough now, but it really will be starting next year when double the number of dentists start getting licensed (equivalency process) . There might be a lot of unhappy new grads.

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Impossible to say, since every dentist makes different amounts based on patient-load (very important), speed, skill, etc.

 

I'm not sure if getting a good job is tough now, but it really will be starting next year when double the number of dentists start getting licensed (equivalency process) . There might be a lot of unhappy new grads.

 

nuked........

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Impossible to say, since every dentist makes different amounts based on patient-load (very important), speed, skill, etc.

 

I'm not sure if getting a good job is tough now, but it really will be starting next year when double the number of dentists start getting licensed (equivalency process) . There might be a lot of unhappy new grads.

 

is there are statistic out there that the total number of dentists getting licensed in ontario will double from 2012?

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is there are statistic out there that the total number of dentists getting licensed in ontario will double from 2012?

 

Most troubling of all - there are absolutely no statistics as to how many new dentists will become licensed through this equivalency process. There should be some kind of stated mandate/goal with respect to numbers. The dental community is left with no idea how this process will affect the market.

 

Conservatively, the number will be on the order of several hundred additional graduates per year. But there is another thread on this issue, so read there and I'll stop harping on the issue.

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How does the demand for dentists compare to family physicians?

 

There is no comparison. A family friend recently opened a new GP office in Vancouver and was able to pay off his expenses (200k) in 3 months. He has been open for 4 months now and is no longer accepting new patients. He said that many pharmacists are offering to cover the overhead (rent, receptionist, supplies etc) expenses of family doctors if they set up practice in the pharmacy. This means that the family doctors get to keep everything they bill. Meanwhile, the dentist down the street had been open for 3 years and is still struggling to fill hid 4 day week. You can get appointments on the same day most of the time.

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so has the economy changed for the worse for dentists then in the past 2-3 yrs or has it always been like this? also was this a misconception that dentists earn about the same as GPs or was that the case a few yrs back but is no longer so??

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just out of curiosity, is it possible for dental specialists (endodontists, orthodontists, oral surgeons etc) to attain comparable net incomes with those of most coveted/lucrative medical specialists (ophthalmologist, radiologist, anesthesiologist, dermatologist etc)?

 

on the same token, in general, do all dental specialists make significantly more than general practitioners?

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I'll one-up you.. dental specialists, especially endodontists and oral surgeons, make way more than medical specialists, especially per hour.

 

Per hour:

 

dental specialists > medical specialists > general dentists > primary care physicians

 

(if I'm remembering that study correctly)

 

And yes, on average, dental specialist training will pay for itself about a hundred times over the length of one's career.

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I think when you compare dentists to MDs you need to consider that there is a country-wide shortage of probably every specialty of MD including family practice - and there will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Many people cannot get family physicians and some specialists take months to see. As such, MDs spend 100% of their patient time seeing patients (billing). They will never have to worry about whether they will book enough patients to fill their schedule.

 

Have you ever seen a dentist sign that says 'Not accepting new patients'?

 

I have worked in a dental practice in Toronto, and I can tell you that - especially for new associates - you simply won't be booked 100% of the time. You also need to advertise in some way if you are in a big city. You cannot work on the 4th floor of an office building and hope to get any patients. You need a store-front office ($$$ rent!) to get walk-ins. And that doesn't even touch equipment cost.

 

I'm not saying dentistry is awful, but the financial situation (irrespective of actual net income) is in a completely different ball park compared to MDs.

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I think when you compare dentists to MDs you need to consider that there is a country-wide shortage of probably every specialty of MD including family practice - and there will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Many people cannot get family physicians and some specialists take months to see. As such, MDs spend 100% of their patient time seeing patients (billing). They will never have to worry about whether they will book enough patients to fill their schedule.

 

Have you ever seen a dentist sign that says 'Not accepting new patients'?

 

I have worked in a dental practice in Toronto, and I can tell you that - especially for new associates - you simply won't be booked 100% of the time. You also need to advertise in some way if you are in a big city. You cannot work on the 4th floor of an office building and hope to get any patients. You need a store-front office ($$$ rent!) to get walk-ins. And that doesn't even touch equipment cost.

 

I'm not saying dentistry is awful, but the financial situation (irrespective of actual net income) is in a completely different ball park compared to MDs.

 

thanks for your informed input Ostracized...i was wondering if you know how the situation is outside of the GTA area...so if you were to practice in sightly more remote/rural area about 3-4hrs away from GTA...is it better in terms of patient load and or income?

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thanks for your informed input Ostracized...i was wondering if you know how the situation is outside of the GTA area...so if you were to practice in sightly more remote/rural area about 3-4hrs away from GTA...is it better in terms of patient load and or income?

 

Very likely yes. Lower overhead, less competition, same fees.

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