How to get a publication as an undergrad

[medhopeful64]

Hi guys!

 

Question about research that I've wondered since reading how many people (undergrads) on this forum have publications. First of all, i didn't even realize that undergrads were "qualified" enough to have their names on a publication until maybe last summer lol, but being a 3rd year going into 4th, I realize that many thesis students get their projects published with the prof (assuming things go right).

 

Now, i will not be doing a thesis next year so i was wondering how else undergrads get their work published. I'm assuming that those who did (and weren't thesis projects), were working at it for at least a year? I'm a lab volunteer but i feel like my contribution is meaningless (I have my own small project) and I only put in a few hours a week (so clearly I can't really expect - and I don't expect - to get my work published). Aaand of course, I know in scientific research things don't always go out as planned, and you end up having to redo many things (which is what happened to me in the lab - I feel like I've accomplished nothing because I've had to redo so many things). But what if someone else takes over your project that you started (and didn't get the most conclusive results) - are you still credited for it?

 

And how do you guys get "abstracts" or get to go to conferences as a lab volunteer? I had one friend who started an NSERC project last summer and she continued as a volunteer for the rest of this year and I think its getting published, which is cool. I was just wondering how those of you that had papers published during undergrad managed to do so? Were you volunteers? NSERC projects? How long did that project take you and how much time committment did you put into it?

 

Also - is a literature review considered less worthy by adcoms than a primary paper? (I ask for U of T med mainly, since they do like scientific research). The reason I am so concerned about publications is because with a wGPA of 3.78 (I think if I calculated correctly), its not good enough to get in for U of T unless I have other significant academic achievements (like publications)...but then again, not that I can get anything done in a summer before application time in aug/sep

[OIC]

There is no strategy to getting published in a paper, unfortunately. Getting publishable material in that time frame depends on the field you are in, the mentality of your principle investigator and grad student supervisors and pure luck (assuming you are putting the work in). You can only do your best and then hope like hell. You can try telling your supervisor that your goal is to be published and then see what they say (depending on your relationship with them), but going from bench to submission in a few months would be tricky considering you said that, so far, you don't have much.

 

There are other things, however, that you CAN control. Look for student conferences in the summer either directly within your institute, somewhere else on campus or somewhere in the city. There should be a number of opportunities for you to present your work and I suggest you attend a couple of those since UofT counts both publications and presentation abstracts into your academic score. Also, if there are seminars that you can sign up for, sign up to give one about your research, these should be going on somewhere within your department as well. Furthermore, while it definitely doesn't carry the same weight, many universities have an undergraduate science journal run by students. If you have even a small negative result and feel like you want to send it somewhere (and your prof has no plans for it) try submitting to an in-house student journal. When opportunities don't present themselves, don't be shy to go out and find them. Good luck!

[Cerena]

From what I've experienced, ochem and clinical research are fairly decent fields when it comes to publishing papers/abstracts. Luckily, those were two fields I enjoyed quite a lot. Like OIC said, though, pure luck is a huge factor among many others!

[Guest copacetic]

avoid basic science like the plague, find clinical research

[EoE]

Another thing about research that may help is remembering how many steps there are to getting it published and trying to help the project progress through those steps.

 

Many students spend so much of their early years in the lab focused on experiments. They forget about the writing/presentation component. In my head a project should naturally progress from: grant objective (and prelim data) --> oodles of experiments --> a departmental 'research in progress' type presentation --> a conference abstract/poster --> a manuscript. This is obviously not going to happen with every project and steps may be skipped, but the things gained from this natural project progression are (1) incorporating feedback and (2) sharpening the presentation. As an undergrad, helping things along could involve making a powerpoint of the data in really nice looking figures/tables (with legends) and then writing a draft of the paper (start with the methods) for your supervisor. Even a point form draft will help. The faster you incorporate any feedback you can get will speed things along as well. It is bad but I purposely put pressure on myself by telling my supervisor unrealistic things like 'I will have that done for tomorrow' just to force myself through the revision process. I published as an undergrad, and have plenty of experience with this as a grad student. I have the scars to prove it.

[Cerena]

Good advice you guys!

[medhopeful64]

Thanks everyone for your replies!!!

 

There is no strategy to getting published in a paper, unfortunately. Getting publishable material in that time frame depends on the field you are in, the mentality of your principle investigator and grad student supervisors and pure luck (assuming you are putting the work in). You can only do your best and then hope like hell. You can try telling your supervisor that your goal is to be published and then see what they say (depending on your relationship with them), but going from bench to submission in a few months would be tricky considering you said that, so far, you don't have much.

 

There are other things, however, that you CAN control. Look for student conferences in the summer either directly within your institute, somewhere else on campus or somewhere in the city. There should be a number of opportunities for you to present your work and I suggest you attend a couple of those since UofT counts both publications and presentation abstracts into your academic score. Also, if there are seminars that you can sign up for, sign up to give one about your research, these should be going on somewhere within your department as well. Furthermore, while it definitely doesn't carry the same weight, many universities have an undergraduate science journal run by students. If you have even a small negative result and feel like you want to send it somewhere (and your prof has no plans for it) try submitting to an in-house student journal. When opportunities don't present themselves, don't be shy to go out and find them. Good luck!

 

Thanks for the suggestions OIC. I don't think my project is publication worthy though. Half the time I'm confused over what my PCR curves mean

Does going to seminar presentations (given by other students - mainly grad students) count? But I am definitely going to put in some more hours as its my only EC (besides one other thing) this summer, so I think I'll invest more into it, and maybe things will get better. I do think my supervisor will publish it eventually, but I have been told its a longggggggggggg way til then lol. So I am not expecting to get a publication anytime soon.

 

I am taking another course however, and I have been assigned a literature review to write up, with the goal of publishing it. Hopefully my paper is half-decent and I can get second author or something on that! That will be done by August, so unless its an online journal, it won't be published by the time of the app, but does it count if its published by interview time? (march-ish?) (namely for U of T - I don't think any other med school cares that much for research, yes?)

 

In-house student journal - cool I will definitely see if my school has that, thanks for suggesting!

 

First off, don't put down your contributions! You can definitely get a publication from volunteering a few hours a week, especially if you have your own project.

 

Getting publications as an undergrad really depends on luck- that is, whether your experiments work out, and whether the prof or grad student wants to give you authorship. One thing to be aware of is that in labs that pay you, you sometimes give up your right to authorship...so make sure to discuss this upfront.

 

The other thing to consider is the timeline. In some areas, like psychology, it can take quite awhile to get a paper accepted, as in up to a year after the initial submission.

 

In terms of my own experience, my prof is currently writing up my thesis for publication and we're aiming to submit it by the end of the summer- I'd be second author on that. In one of the labs that I volunteer in, a project that I've been working on for a year and a half is wrapping up, and the results worked out, so I've been told I'll get third author on that...although I suspect its going to be awhile before its written up in publication form, lol. I'm also just starting to work on a meta-analysis type project in the same lab, which they're hoping will result in another publication. All this takes time though, so I highly doubt I'll have anything accepted when applications are due.

 

No, I'm not paid - I'm a humble volunteer, and that has restricted me significantly. I can't ever be in the lab alone, or go get blood samples on my own (I am not sure if my research qualifies as being "clinical" - I do have patient contact if that's part of the criteria, and my supervisor is actually a physician (she's a professor of medicine) that runs these clinical trials ) but prob being I am not properly trained/qualified to be allowed to get blood samples from hospital patients, so I always have to go with the lab tech. She's usually very happy to go with me, but I do wish I had some independence.

 

Yes, a lot does depend on luck! But you seem well on your way to some publications!

 

Another thing about research that may help is remembering how many steps there are to getting it published and trying to help the project progress through those steps.

 

Many students spend so much of their early years in the lab focused on experiments. They forget about the writing/presentation component. In my head a project should naturally progress from: grant objective (and prelim data) --> oodles of experiments --> a departmental 'research in progress' type presentation --> a conference abstract/poster --> a manuscript. This is obviously not going to happen with every project and steps may be skipped, but the things gained from this natural project progression are (1) incorporating feedback and (2) sharpening the presentation. As an undergrad, helping things along could involve making a powerpoint of the data in really nice looking figures/tables (with legends) and then writing a draft of the paper (start with the methods) for your supervisor. Even a point form draft will help. The faster you incorporate any feedback you can get will speed things along as well. It is bad but I purposely put pressure on myself by telling my supervisor unrealistic things like 'I will have that done for tomorrow' just to force myself through the revision process. I published as an undergrad, and have plenty of experience with this as a grad student. I have the scars to prove it.

 

Very true! I have been writing up my protocols as I'm going along, though I am far behind. I get feedback from the lab tech/professor, on what to try next if things aren't working out. We are starting up "data summary presentations" where the lab members just all present a summary of their work once a month. Not sure if that means anything though, its just basically a longer lab meeting lol.

 

Thanks everyone for your replies, its been very helpful

[osteon]

Just so you're aware, even once you have a publishable paper, it's not an overnight process. Most journals take 6 months to let you know if it's accepted or not. Then actually having it published is a few months beyond that. So to have something totally published by application time, it's probably impossible even if you submitted today. If you find the right journal, it could possibly be accepted by October though if you're lucky. Of course, if you find a cure for disease or something groundbreaking, submit to NEJM or Nature and they'll have it totally published in 2 weeks.

[Guest copacetic]

when you apply you can put things that have been accepted but not yet published on your application.

[medhopeful64]

Just so you're aware, even once you have a publishable paper, it's not an overnight process. Most journals take 6 months to let you know if it's accepted or not. Then actually having it published is a few months beyond that. So to have something totally published by application time, it's probably impossible even if you submitted today. If you find the right journal, it could possibly be accepted by October though if you're lucky. Of course, if you find a cure for disease or something groundbreaking, submit to NEJM or Nature and they'll have it totally published in 2 weeks.

 

lol ok, thanks for letting me know, I do not have high hopes of getting a publication by application time anyway, but thanks for giving me a rough timeline of what to expect and be more realistic.

 

when you apply you can put things that have been accepted but not yet published on your application.

 

Ah ok, thanks for the info!

[Cerena]

when you apply you can put things that have been accepted but not yet published on your application.

 

can we really? That's great to hear. Thanks!

[OIC]

Thanks everyone for your replies!!!

 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions OIC. I don't think my project is publication worthy though. Half the time I'm confused over what my PCR curves mean

Does going to seminar presentations (given by other students - mainly grad students) count? But I am definitely going to put in some more hours as its my only EC (besides one other thing) this summer, so I think I'll invest more into it, and maybe things will get better. I do think my supervisor will publish it eventually, but I have been told its a longggggggggggg way til then lol. So I am not expecting to get a publication anytime soon.

 

I am taking another course however, and I have been assigned a literature review to write up, with the goal of publishing it. Hopefully my paper is half-decent and I can get second author or something on that! That will be done by August, so unless its an online journal, it won't be published by the time of the app, but does it count if its published by interview time? (march-ish?) (namely for U of T - I don't think any other med school cares that much for research, yes?)

 

In-house student journal - cool I will definitely see if my school has that, thanks for suggesting!

 

 

 

Getting anything published as a full-time grad student is tough to do in this time frame, as a summer volunteer student it is even harder; however, as I said in my previous post there are other ways to try and get your name on something.

 

About seminars: no, it going to someone else's seminar doesn't get you any points and is not something you should include on an application. What you should do is sign up to give a seminar yourself (even if its just a background of your project and your future plans for experimentation) and this seminar will help you understand your research because it will force you to read, it may open you up to fresh input from your colleagues, it will improve your ability to talk about science and has the added bonus of being something you can include on your application

 

Working full-tilt on your project is a good idea, and will certainly improve the strength of a reference letter if you were to ask for one. However, since you are a volunteer make sure you make time for yourself too, you have a finite number of full summers left!

 

In reference to your post and that of someone else, getting this published does take a long time but can vary. I've had papers go from submission to acceptance in as little as 15 days or as long as 7 months. It depends on the paper, the journal and the revision process. but the standard is about 4-6 weeks. Going from acceptance to publication can also vary from 2 weeks to 6 months, but tends to hover around one month for online publicaton and a couple more for print. However, (nd this is for both you and Cerena) UofT and the rest of the ontario schools allow you to write down any papers you are involved in whether it has been published, accepted, submitted, or even still in preparation! Just commit to the work, try to enjoy it and stay involved in your local research community, the rest is out of your control. Best of luck..to everyone!

[medhopeful64]

Getting anything published as a full-time grad student is tough to do in this time frame, as a summer volunteer student it is even harder; however, as I said in my previous post there are other ways to try and get your name on something.

 

About seminars: no, it going to someone else's seminar doesn't get you any points and is not something you should include on an application. What you should do is sign up to give a seminar yourself (even if its just a background of your project and your future plans for experimentation) and this seminar will help you understand your research because it will force you to read, it may open you up to fresh input from your colleagues, it will improve your ability to talk about science and has the added bonus of being something you can include on your application

 

Working full-tilt on your project is a good idea, and will certainly improve the strength of a reference letter if you were to ask for one. However, since you are a volunteer make sure you make time for yourself too, you have a finite number of full summers left!

 

In reference to your post and that of someone else, getting this published does take a long time but can vary. I've had papers go from submission to acceptance in as little as 15 days or as long as 7 months. It depends on the paper, the journal and the revision process. but the standard is about 4-6 weeks. Going from acceptance to publication can also vary from 2 weeks to 6 months, but tends to hover around one month for online publicaton and a couple more for print. However, (nd this is for both you and Cerena) UofT and the rest of the ontario schools allow you to write down any papers you are involved in whether it has been published, accepted, submitted, or even still in preparation! Just commit to the work, try to enjoy it and stay involved in your local research community, the rest is out of your control. Best of luck..to everyone!

 

Thanks so much OIC! your info has been really helpful