10wattbulb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Finally, I have one supporter . I've made so many statements that it's hard to back them all up. For the Ritalin, based on what my clinical psycho prof told us in class, if you take the 'standard' dose but don't actually suffer from ADHD, you won't get much of an effect because you don't actually have a problem concentrating to begin with (hence, you'll get no magical grade/IQ boost). I agree that looking at who funds the research gives us a clue as to why Med research is not as rigorous as it ought to be. For instance, pharmaceutical companies run the clinical trials for their own drugs; of course they have to report their findings accurately and can get sued for not doing so, but still, there's room for exaggerating the benefits of a drug and undermining the adverse effects... Another problem in medical research is that people often come with a big bias when doing the research itself. Some scientists, for instance, are fans of natural product X and want to prove that it really does work. A final problem is that the human body is very complex, and biochem is still a relatively new discipline. Hence, sometimes a theory on what causes disease X (eg. Alzheimer's) is elaborated and gains popularity, but it is then overturned by other scientists. ASecondDaniel: "Bottom line: If you have no sense of integrity, no moral backbone, or no academic astuteness, then yes, take ritalin- it's your only shot at getting in." Totally right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Finally, I have one supporter . I've made so many statements that it's hard to back them all up. For the Ritalin, based on what my clinical psycho prof told us in class, if you take the 'standard' dose but don't actually suffer from ADHD, you won't get much of an effect because you don't actually have a problem concentrating to begin with (hence, you'll get no magical grade/IQ boost). In people without ADHD, I think Ritalin just helps them stay alert and awake like coffee. As a stimulant, I doubt it helps concentration if you're in a normal wake state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Facts on caffeine: - A no-brainer: people drink coffee mainly for the taste/enjoyment, but people who take caffeine pills take it for the psycho-stimulant drug effect (i.e. a different motivation). - Average cup of brewed coffee has 80-135 mg of caffeine. - Average caffeine pill has 200 mg of caffeine, equivalent to 2 cups of strong coffee. - Popeye's 4Ever Fit Caffeine pills (very popular) have 200 mg of caffeine. Take only 4 and you've got 800 mg in your system (you'd need to drink 8 cups of strong coffee -2 liters- to do the same). Note that it's much easier to prop pills into your mouth than to drink cup after cup of coffee to overdose. - Taking 400+ mg of caffeine in one sitting can result in 'a state of intoxication known as caffeinism, which is characterized by restlessness, agitation, excitement, rambling thought and speech, and insomnia. These symptoms clearly overlap with those of many psychiatric disorders.' - 'A recent review (Maughan & Griffin, 2003) concluded that single doses of caffeine such as those found in commonly consumed beverages have little or no diuretic action, although large doses (>250 mg) do.' - 'Caffeine may also be harmful in pregnancy; intakes above 300 mg/day may be associated with low birth weight and miscarriage (Food Standards Agency, 2001; Parazzini et al, 2005).' - 'Caffeine may precipitate sinus tachycardia but does not increase the risk of cardiac arrhythmias, except at very high dose (Katan & Schouten, 2005).' Source: http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/6/432.full Bottom line: Any substance can be harmful in large enough quantities. You usually can't get any serious side effects from taking a large cup of coffee or double espresso. Apart from the dosage of caffeine, you also need to consider the fact that most people take quite some time to finish up that large cup of Starbucks coffee or espresso. And luckily for us, "we have mechanisms built into the human body that let us know we’ve had enough of something. This is true with caffeine overdose. Well before we are at a toxic level, we experience side effects that prevent us from consuming more, ie. nausea and vomiting." But this won't happen if you overdose with caffeine pills. Ergo, side effects are much more common with people taking caffeine pills than coffee. From a moral standpoint, I feel that taking a potentially harmful amount of any substance is wrong, no matter how you take that substance (don't feel obliged to agree with me on this, though). It's much easier, however, to overdose on caffeine when you take it as a pill than as a drink. Also, when you drink coffee, you usually do so because you enjoy its taste. But when you pop a pill into your mouth, you just want the drug's effect. And in the morality debate, the motivation(s) behind a given deed matters. For example, say you kill someone . If you murdered the person, you've done something highly immoral, but if you accidentally killed the person in a car accident (and you weren't drunk or anything of the sort), then you've done nothing immoral. In both cases, the 'concrete' end result is the same (you killed someone), but the moral end result is different. Either way, taking caffeine pills to boost your intellectual performance on an exam is only slightly unethical; the health side-effects are more worrisome. As for your question: "Also, which drug exactly is it that is helping students get the marks they want?" Read this article: http://advan.physiology.org/content/31/4/332.full . You'll learn that the general class of drugs known as 'stimulants' can be abused by students to increase their marks; and students often take caffeine pills instead of Ritalin because they're easier to get. BTW megaMooMoo, if you're 'a very sensitive boy and even a slight argument would hurt your feelings', it is not my ethical/moral problem but yours. You have the moral obligation to be a responsible person and to not do things that will harm your sensitive self; so if going on this forum where people might argue against you will lead you to feel sad and hurt, then don't come here! I am not intentionally trying to harm you; hence I'm not doing nothing immoral you failed to explain how any of this improves grades anymore than a cup of coffee does. try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 you failed to explain how any of this improves grades anymore than a cup of coffee does. try again. But I don't think Ritalin improves grades anymore than a cup of coffee does, medigeek; that's one of the points I'm trying to make... I personally believe that there's no "magic solution" to getting good grades/boosting IQ other than studying and working hard to comprehend/understand the lecture material. You're just harming yourself by taking the unnecessary Ritalin/caffeine pills... P.S. There's this one article from Macleans that you can take a look at that argues that Ritalin may help improve grades. Take a look: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2009/03/09/brain-candy-can-ritalin-turn-you-into-an-a-student/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaMooMoo Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 But I don't think Ritalin improves grades anymore than a cup of coffee does, medigeek; that's one of the points I'm trying to make... I personally believe that there's no "magic solution" to getting good grades/boosting IQ other than studying and working hard to comprehend/understand the lecture material. You're just harming yourself by taking the unnecessary Ritalin/caffeine pills... P.S. There's this one article from Macleans that you can take a look at that argues that Ritalin may help improve grades. Take a look: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2009/03/09/brain-candy-can-ritalin-turn-you-into-an-a-student/ there is, its called cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 there is, its called cheating Yes... That's kind of true. Finally, we agree on something . But note that, putting the moral dilemma aside, you run the big risk of getting caught when you cheat, as your "friend" on a UBC forum thread found out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 But I don't think Ritalin improves grades anymore than a cup of coffee does, medigeek; that's one of the points I'm trying to make... I personally believe that there's no "magic solution" to getting good grades/boosting IQ other than studying and working hard to comprehend/understand the lecture material. You're just harming yourself by taking the unnecessary Ritalin/caffeine pills... P.S. There's this one article from Macleans that you can take a look at that argues that Ritalin may help improve grades. Take a look: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2009/03/09/brain-candy-can-ritalin-turn-you-into-an-a-student/ I dont take ritalin, and I dont use caffeine pills. I've used supplements for pre workouts and pre competition (which have both geranium extract and caffeine) and know how how it feels to be boosted up on stims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I dont take ritalin, and I dont use caffeine pills. I've used supplements for pre workouts and pre competition (which have both geranium extract and caffeine) and know how how it feels to be boosted up on stims. Well, I'm happy that you don't and that you realize that it's not going to help you get better grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaMooMoo Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yes... That's kind of true. Finally, we agree on something . But note that, putting the moral dilemma aside, you run the big risk of getting caught when you cheat, as your "friend" on a UBC forum thread found out... ohhhhhhhhh snap : ) watbulb you're a girl arnt you? thats not a statement to insult but merely a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 You have a 50% chance of being right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaMooMoo Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 You have a 50% chance of being right... hah deflection, i knew i was right you have cooties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 BUT, you have 50% chance of being wrong... 'cooties': Diseases that the opposite sex has that gives you a reason to not be around them. When you get older, cooties becomes known as STDs (Urban Dictionary). I'll take your last post as an insult. Insults + defending a friend who cheated and got caught (rightly so) + not seeing a problem with buying underground sh1t = Moral "cooties"... I hope you cure of your troll/morality issues quickly. Get well soon... For my part, I'm officially ignoring your posts from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaMooMoo Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 BUT, you have 50% chance of being wrong... 'cooties': Diseases that the opposite sex has that gives you a reason to not be around them. When you get older, cooties becomes known as STDs (Urban Dictionary). I'll take your last post as an insult. Insults + defending a friend who cheated and got caught (rightly so) + not seeing a problem with buying underground sh1t = Moral "cooties"... I hope you cure of your troll/morality issues quickly. Get well soon... For my part, I'm officially ignoring your posts from now on. ...maybe you should also look up the definition of a joke as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I can't believe we got into a mini flame war over something as little as Ritalin... The internet is just stupid sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaMooMoo Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I can't believe we got into a mini flame war over something as little as Ritalin... The internet is just stupid sometimes. i think we're all just pissed off b/c may 15 couldnt come soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldnk Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 so why should you have geniune intellect and be able to become a doctor and others not? why should you get to make a 100,000$ per year and someone else is confined to a mediocre job.. maybe serving you fries or something. What if the guy thats serving you fries decides he wants to be at the high end of life, but his brain doesnt give him the intellect to be in med school? what then? Life isn't fair. To get what you want in life you need to have a work ethic, have the natural abilities and get damn lucky along the way. Seeking drugs to help you out of situations isn't a solution, it's a crutch to a bigger problem. Having a one track mind on what you want to do, especially at a relatively early age in life suggests not assessing all of your options. Also, someone who is essentially going to lecture twice (in class + audio recording) AND rereading the notes and textbook over and over again - that's just plain overkill and inefficient. It sounds to me like you have a much larger problem with knowing how to study. Seek out the student development/learning resources centre on your University campus. They should be able to help you develop the skills to study smart, rather than simply studying with a shotgun approach. Studying and re-studying shows a great amount of work ethic, but that just really isn't sustainable to spend that much time on an individual topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 maybe some of the questions are applicable. jordan shoes air jordan shoes Air Jordan 1 Air Jordan Retro 1 Shoes And no, you don't need ritalin to memorize.. Not a lot of those were applicable. Failbot fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 what about people who take a beta-blocker during interviews to avoid beta adregenergic effects, lots of people do this for music competitions and admissions to prestigious music schools too… they just have normal anxiety levels (whatever that is), is that cheating, what about taking piracetam, aniracetam, huperzin a, omega 3 fish oils (high grade stuff, proper ratios, that cost 60 dollars a month), theanine with their cafffeine, people who can afford to have a gym in their nice apartment - saving travel time, increasing oxygen flow via cerebral blood flow and monoamine synthesis (another reason ritalin works besides pharmacologically) and can afford healthy food (and i know nutritional psychiatry in and out… food is a potent drug), is that cheating?? Is registering your kid for school a year later, since kids born in dec are far less developed compared to their jan counterparts (same effect is found in sports)… earning teacher praise, snowballing and getting them propelled into the dumb or stupid group. Is the fact that I have ADD and can hyperfocus on academics an academics an advantage… yup… then again, I can't to tedious mentally unchallenging things for long, so maybe not, but I sure as hell will kick your ass at school, even if I can't do repetitive physical labor for more than 2 min (and people noticed and were like do you have add?) and will never make a better construction worker than you, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 what about people who take a beta-blocker during interviews to avoid beta adregenergic effects, lots of people do this for music competitions and admissions to prestigious music schools too… they just have normal anxiety levels (whatever that is), is that cheating, what about taking piracetam, aniracetam, huperzin a, omega 3 fish oils (high grade stuff, proper ratios, that cost 60 dollars a month), theanine with their cafffeine, people who can afford to have a gym in their nice apartment - saving travel time, increasing oxygen flow via cerebral blood flow and monoamine synthesis (another reason ritalin works besides pharmacologically) and can afford healthy food (and i know nutritional psychiatry in and out… food is a potent drug), is that cheating?? Is registering your kid for school a year later, since kids born in dec are far less developed compared to their jan counterparts (same effect is found in sports)… earning teacher praise, snowballing and getting them propelled into the dumb or stupid group. Is the fact that I have ADD and can hyperfocus on academics an academics an advantage… yup… then again, I can't to tedious mentally unchallenging things for long, so maybe not, but I sure as hell will kick your ass at school, even if I can't do repetitive physical labor for more than 2 min (and people noticed and were like do you have add?) and will never make a better construction worker than you, lol. lol summed it up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 what about people who take a beta-blocker during interviews to avoid beta adregenergic effects, lots of people do this for music competitions and admissions to prestigious music schools too… they just have normal anxiety levels (whatever that is), is that cheating, what about taking piracetam, aniracetam, huperzin a, omega 3 fish oils (high grade stuff, proper ratios, that cost 60 dollars a month), theanine with their cafffeine, people who can afford to have a gym in their nice apartment - saving travel time, increasing oxygen flow via cerebral blood flow and monoamine synthesis (another reason ritalin works besides pharmacologically) and can afford healthy food (and i know nutritional psychiatry in and out… food is a potent drug), is that cheating?? Is registering your kid for school a year later, since kids born in dec are far less developed compared to their jan counterparts (same effect is found in sports)… earning teacher praise, snowballing and getting them propelled into the dumb or stupid group. Is the fact that I have ADD and can hyperfocus on academics an academics an advantage… yup… then again, I can't to tedious mentally unchallenging things for long, so maybe not, but I sure as hell will kick your ass at school, even if I can't do repetitive physical labor for more than 2 min (and people noticed and were like do you have add?) and will never make a better construction worker than you, lol. Guys, let's not get completely silly here... If you've got a prescription to take the drug (i.e. doctor thinks the medication will help you out), then that's OK. So if you're taking Ritalin/beta-blockers/heroine even, but for a legit reason, then I see no problem. BUT, if you get stuff in a non-legit fashion and/or for non-legit reasons (eg. boosting up your performance to give yourself an unfair advantage over others), then you're doing something that's, morally-speaking, wrong. Same thing goes for taking substances at doses that can harm your health. This should be common 'moral' sense. Oh... Feel no need to agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 If the OP is still looking to get stimulants I highly suggest you see a specialist, I personally believe most GPs aren't even competent to provide patients with medication. From personal experience the medication was an absolute disaster for me and you really need to get a thorough analysis done if the medication will be beneficial for you, I would also suggest getting some blood-work done, who knows you might have a deficiency in vitamins or hormones. With my experience there is some lasting side effects, but than again everyone is different in how they react with the medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhc911 Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 If the OP is still looking to get stimulants I highly suggest you see a specialist, I personally believe most GPs aren't even competent to provide patients with medication. From personal experience the medication was an absolute disaster for me and you really need to get a thorough analysis done if the medication will be beneficial for you, I would also suggest getting some blood-work done, who knows you might have a deficiency in vitamins or hormones. With my experience there is some lasting side effects, but than again everyone is different in how they react with the medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Just to specify, I meant stimulants; however there are certain GPs with an amazing background in various psychotropic drugs, but it's extremely rare. Just to divert a flamewar. Nevertheless, this minor error in articulating my point, is just a minor side-effect I have to deal with on a daily basis. I'll just give my personal experience that allowed me to develop this notion that not all GPs should be prescribing this medication. When I got my script from my family doc he never mentioned that the medication should not be used with caffeine, I had to learn this through the internet, secondly all physicians when prescribing this medication should refer the patient for an EKG, stimulants can exacerbate a previous unknown heart condition, once again this was not done. I really think the main issue lies in the duration of appointment times and the nature of questions being asked. Whereas a psychiatrist will spend a minimum of 30 mins with a patient and develop a thorough emotional & psychological background of the patient and determine whether the medication will be beneficial, a GP has a strain on the time they're allowed to spend with you and generally can only allocate anywhere from 5 - 15 mins. Additionally a GP will ask you questions geared towards your physical symptoms (fatigue etc.). In the grand schemes of things will taking one adderall or ritalin pill harm your body, probably not... but from the nature of the OP's post, I am assuming he wants to be using the medication daily, I think that's when you start to get problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecih Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Yup, its a new course, thats part of the problem. We don't have any past tests. I do memorize all his slides and everything but all his questions are so random, and most of his questions aren't even in the material he's taught us. He asks useless questions about specifics which he never talks about in class. I really do need ritalin...sigh. If that's the case, then no psychostimulant can help you: you simply don't have the information in the first place. How are your study habits? Do you start studying early? Do you record lectures and listen to them/take notes multiple times? Do you memorize and understand the material enough to be able to apply it to new situations? Your problem could also be that your focusing too specifically on what was taught in class. While that is important, it could be that you're required to detect patterns that will help you answer the topics/specifics he didn't teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwasa Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Anyone who takes ritalin is a chump who doesn't have what it takes to handle the measly undergrad workload. I look forward to destroying these people in med school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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