The professional-class bubble is bursting

[nonstop]

 

If you feel like you need a sense of accomplishment, you can always do research whether clinical or basic science.

 

 

+1. I know a lot of doctors who do research on the side.

[nonstop]

And being in high school discredits my opinion somehow? If anything, I have the most unbiased opinion since most of you have committed to the path of medicine whereas I'm still "open" to careers and so I can analyse them objectively, instead of having to self-justify my decision/stay in denial about the truth.

I just don't like the general negative attitude at pm101 towards someone who wants to go to medicine because of the money/prestige, as if it's wrong to do so.

 

And you can see from that first post, I want to do something for the world. The more I explored medicine as a career, the more I realized that I won't get that in medicine.

[euroscience]

A doctor is replaceable as an individual. I can never feel a sense of accomplishment knowing that had i not existed, had i not been born, someone of pretty much equal competency than me would be in my seat in med school , internship, and then doing the job that I do, treating the patients that I treat.

 

There are certain professions where the individual is irreplaceable, like research (mostly), social economist, social activist/leader, politician, etc.

 

Not only do these jobs have the potential of making long-term and wide-reaching change, if you hadn't existed, the issue that you're fixing would've likely not been fixed until a few years/decades/centuries after. Real accomplishment is when you are able to say that you gave 100 villages in Africa running water when they wouldn't have gotten it otherwise until the next few decades. Accomplishment is being able to say that the economic policies conjured and implemented by you lifted thousands of families out of poverty. Accomplishment is being able to say that you legalized gay marriage through your actions in the parliament.

Not "oh I 'save' a few 20-30 people everyday who walk through that hospital/clinic door". In fact as a doctor, unless you're in emergency med, you wouldn't be "saving" anyone per se.

 

What on earth are you going on about?? People leave legacies, not the positions they hold. There have been great world leaders and innovators in many fields - yes, medicine too - a quick google search can clear that up for you. You hold a rather naive view of accomplishment IMHO.

[Robin Hood]

A doctor is replaceable as an individual. I can never feel a sense of accomplishment knowing that had i not existed, had i not been born, someone of pretty much equal competency than me would be in my seat in med school , internship, and then doing the job that I do, treating the patients that I treat.

 

There are certain professions where the individual is irreplaceable, like research (mostly), social economist, social activist/leader, politician, etc.

 

Not only do these jobs have the potential of making long-term and wide-reaching change, if you hadn't existed, the issue that you're fixing would've likely not been fixed until a few years/decades/centuries after. Real accomplishment is when you are able to say that you gave 100 villages in Africa running water when they wouldn't have gotten it otherwise until the next few decades. Accomplishment is being able to say that the economic policies conjured and implemented by you lifted thousands of families out of poverty. Accomplishment is being able to say that you legalized gay marriage through your actions in the parliament.

Not "oh I 'save' a few 20-30 people everyday who walk through that hospital/clinic door". In fact as a doctor, unless you're in emergency med, you wouldn't be "saving" anyone per se.

 

 

Looks like you like the idea of being a doctor. I'd like to be able to say everything like that too. That categorizes under prestige. But does the act of securing an airway or drilling a burrhole make you happy? If it does then I give it to you, you'd be a happy doctor.

 

Maybe one of the reasons why the suicide/depression is so high is because most doctors end up sitting in their clinic, running a business, basically prescribing cough/cold/pain medicine to every other patient when they had the potential to change the world.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, but if you tell me that it's wrong to pursue medicine because of the money/prestige and that you should pursue it because it gives you happiness then let me tell you, there's nothing to be happy about in medicine other than the money and prestige.

 

Each human being is unique, they are not machines to say they can be replaced.

[Mourning Cloak]

. . . not everyone is there for money and prestige.

 

What is think is the really interesting part about the future is that we're gonna test this hypothesis.

 

When MDs are paid less and work more, will high-achiever 3.9ers still feel passionately about the field?

[Robin Hood]

What is think is the really interesting part about the future is that people are going to get the chance to put their money where their mouths are:

 

When MDs are paid less and work more, will high-achiever 3.9ers still feel passionately about the field?

 

If I can still pay my debt and live a substainable life, I will still persue it, even if my GPA was 4.0.

[OttawaURookie]

You have to be the biggest egomaniac on this forum and you are only in HS.

 

Generally, its nice to hear young people say things like you said above.. "I want to do something for the world" but when you basically discount medicine as not worthwhile, you tell us more about yourself and your weak mental state. Would you really feel worthless if you didn't make some big discovery? Would you really feel worthless if people didn't remember your name?

 

Again, this is an instance which says a lot more about you as a person, and your weak mental state, then anything else.

 

And being in high school discredits my opinion somehow? If anything, I have the most unbiased opinion since most of you have committed to the path of medicine whereas I'm still "open" to careers and so I can analyse them objectively, instead of having to self-justify my decision/stay in denial about the truth.

I just don't like the general negative attitude at pm101 towards someone who wants to go to medicine because of the money/prestige, as if it's wrong to do so.

 

And you can see from that first post, I want to do something for the world. The more I explored medicine as a career, the more I realized that I won't get that in medicine.

[Wayward son]

And being in high school discredits my opinion somehow?

 

Well in my biased opinion you treated AS, a fourth year medical student, like he was a hopeless child in your post. Maybe others have a different opinion.

 

Looks like you like the idea of being a doctor. I'd like to be able to say everything like that too. That categorizes under prestige. But does the act of securing an airway or drilling a burrhole make you happy? If it does then I give it to you, you'd be a happy doctor.

 

Maybe one of the reasons why the suicide/depression is so high is because most doctors end up sitting in their clinic, running a business, basically prescribing cough/cold/pain medicine to every other patient when they had the potential to change the world.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, but if you tell me that it's wrong to pursue medicine because of the money/prestige and that you should pursue it because it gives you happiness then let me tell you, there's nothing to be happy about in medicine other than the money and prestige.

 

For the record I do enjoy securing an airway - and have been doing so for more than a decade. I also take great pleasure in adjusting vent settings to improve perfusion and all kinds of other tasks that you may one day feel are dreadful and only worthy of doing for the fee. I take pride in doing them well. I think that are a lot of things in medicine to be happy about other than money and prestige. I am not a doctor, but having worked as a paramedic and alongside physicians for many years I suspect I have a much better grasp of what it is about than you do. People who have no experience probably shouldn't tell those that do, like AS, "let me tell you."

[nonstop]

Each human being is unique, they are not machines to say they can be replaced.

 

That becomes a philosophical issue.

 

 

What on earth are you going on about?? People leave legacies, not the positions they hold. There have been great world leaders and innovators in many fields - yes, medicine too - a quick google search can clear that up for you. You hold a rather naive view of accomplishment IMHO.

 

I've never said that going into medicine makes it impossible to leave a legacy. Of course you can do research/go into public policy from medicine and make change.

 

What I meant was that clinical med doesn't "leave lasting change". I should've defined "accomplishment" more clearly.

[future_doc]

And being in high school discredits my opinion somehow? If anything, I have the most unbiased opinion since most of you have committed to the path of medicine whereas I'm still "open" to careers and so I can analyse them objectively, instead of having to self-justify my decision/stay in denial about the truth.

I just don't like the general negative attitude at pm101 towards someone who wants to go to medicine because of the money/prestige, as if it's wrong to do so.

 

And you can see from that first post, I want to do something for the world. The more I explored medicine as a career, the more I realized that I won't get that in medicine.

 

You don't have the life experience we do and you are to be congratulated on feeling your way as you explore potential career paths. From what you say based upon your perceptions, medicine is not for you if you feel that, effectively, you can be replaced by another doctor and that medicine is about prestige and making money as the motivating factors.

 

Although you seem to feel that research, social economists, social activist/leader or politician is of greater value to society than leading and collaborating as part of a health care team preventing disease, diagnosing disease, saving or extending life with accompanying quality of life, I urge you as part of your exploration not to close any doors at this early stage of your development. To me, helping improve one life at a time as physician is a responsibility noncomparable to any other profession. But we are each different.

 

A doctor is replaceable as an individual. I can never feel a sense of accomplishment knowing that had i not existed, had i not been born, someone of pretty much equal competency than me would be in my seat in med school , internship, and then doing the job that I do, treating the patients that I treat. Prestige does not enter into it, directly or indirectly.

 

There are certain professions where the individual is irreplaceable, like research (mostly), social economist, social activist/leader, politician, etc.

 

Not only do these jobs have the potential of making long-term and wide-reaching change, if you hadn't existed, the issue that you're fixing would've likely not been fixed until a few years/decades/centuries after. Real accomplishment is when you are able to say that you gave 100 villages in Africa running water when they wouldn't have gotten it otherwise until the next few decades. Accomplishment is being able to say that the economic policies conjured and implemented by you lifted thousands of families out of poverty. Accomplishment is being able to say that you legalized gay marriage through your actions in the parliament.

Not "oh I 'save' a few 20-30 people everyday who walk through that hospital/clinic door". In fact as a doctor, unless you're in emergency med, you wouldn't be "saving" anyone per se.

 

 

Looks like you like the idea of being a doctor. I'd like to be able to say everything like that too. That categorizes under prestige. But does the act of securing an airway or drilling a burrhole make you happy? If it does then I give it to you, you'd be a happy doctor.

 

Maybe one of the reasons why the suicide/depression is so high is because most doctors end up sitting in their clinic, running a business, basically prescribing cough/cold/pain medicine to every other patient when they had the potential to change the world.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, but if you tell me that it's wrong to pursue medicine because of the money/prestige and that you should pursue it because it gives you happiness then let me tell you, there's nothing to be happy about in medicine other than the money and prestige.

 

^Your bold comment above is a cynical and incorrect perception.

[Robin Hood]

That becomes a philosophical issue.

 

 

 

 

I've never said that going into medicine makes it impossible to leave a legacy. Of course you can do research/go into public policy from medicine and make change.

 

What I meant was that clinical med doesn't "leave lasting change". I should've defined "accomplishment" more clearly.

 

You can't deny that treating someone, can make a difference in his life, and that, is not nothing.

[future_doc]

Society is a collection of individuals.

 

It starts with the individual. And the better the health of each individual, the better the society.

[nonstop]

You have to be the biggest egomaniac on this forum and you are only in HS.

 

Generally, its nice to hear young people say things like you said above.. "I want to do something for the world" but when you basically discount medicine as not worthwhile, you tell us more about yourself and your weak mental state. Would you really feel worthless if you didn't make some big discovery? Would you really feel worthless if people didn't remember your name?

 

Again, this is an instance which says a lot more about you as a person, and your weak mental state, then anything else.

 

I admit, there is some truth to that. I would indeed feel worthless if I don't make a big discovery/make positive change.

Whether that means that I have a "weak" state of mind should be left to the psychologist.

 

I feel that as we grow up, we lower our standards of what constitutes achievement or success, to keep ourselves sane and happy. Maybe that's why high-schoolers appear as egomaniacs. I guess that would be largely based on the fact that we realize how difficult it is to even feed yourself/family, let alone "change the world".

 

You can't deny that treating someone, can make a difference in his life, and that, is not nothing.

 

Again, I feel that this whole issue is very philosophical, that there isn't one absolute truth towards what constitutes as "making a difference"; each person has their own pragmatic truth.

 

If I come off as being rude, then please forgive me. I feel that the criticism, both ways, is healthy.

[OttawaURookie]

I guess that would be largely based on the fact that we realize how difficult it is to even feed yourself/family, let alone "change the world".

 

How would a HS'er know this? lol

 

I think you are trolling.

[nonstop]

How would a HS'er know this? lol

 

I think you are trolling.

 

"OMG How would a high schooler know what adults do. I thought it was a secret club. What is this hacks"

 

I'm not a troll. I've been on this forum for quite some time. My opinions aren't without explained basis. Yes I'm in high school, yes I'm still questioning the path of medicine. That doesn't make me a "troll". It's a hard accusation to call someone a troll. You won't realize it until it happens to you.

[future_doc]

I admit, there is some truth to that. I would indeed feel worthless if I don't make a big discovery/make positive change.

 

You are dreaming in technicolour to so impact society. But by all means, try. Best to set realistic goal and build upon your successes.

I wish you every success in your difficult journey.

[Birdy]

What is think is the really interesting part about the future is that we're gonna test this hypothesis.

 

When MDs are paid less and work more, will high-achiever 3.9ers still feel passionately about the field?

 

Reading through my province's master agreement with the medical society recently, I saw the following line:

"Removal of rectal foreign body....$72.25"

 

And I sat there thinking about it. I know this is a very common ER visit (my sibling is an RN in a very busy ER. Tales of emerg are always fascinating, though of course perfectly compliant with patient privacy laws and internal hospital regulations.) Would I do that for $72? Would I do that for $50? Where is the line where I wouldn't lube up and go in to retrieve the vibrating purple toy, or can of spray foam insulation.

 

For every MI you treat, there's a hundred panicking first time moms coming in with a one year old with roseola. For every vehicle collision patient you heroically save, there are hundreds of senior women who need dressings changed, or kids with gastroenteritis, violent drug seekers, or patients with c. Diff. making that shiny new lab coat look not so pretty - from both ends at the same time while you try to find a vein because they need fluids and you're the med student who was gleefully assigned that patient by your supervisor. (Sorry, I read a lot of blogs. This is the impression I get.)

 

I couldn't find a line where I wouldn't want to treat the rectal foreign body, because it is still medicine. It's still part of the job. Treating the patient who "'slipped coming out of the shower and landed on a wine bottle" in a professional and respectful manner makes a difference in that pts life. Medicine isn't guts and glory, as far as I can tell from the outside looking in. Guts, maybe, glory, not so much.

 

I sound horrifically naive, don't I? My point is that passion for the profession - not the prestige or the money - does exist in premeds, even if we can't know completely what it is like because we haven't experienced it firsthand.

[future_doc]

yes I'm still questioning the path of medicine

 

I thought you had already dismissed this career path as unsatisfying on many levels.

[Birdy]

"OMG How would a high schooler know what adults do. I thought it was a secret club. What is this hacks"

 

 

There is a very thick line between 'knowing' and 'experiencing.'

 

I thought I knew everything in high school too. It's rather amazing how a few years change your perspective in several areas, and your attitude.

[nonstop]

I thought you had already dismissed this career path as unsatisfying on many levels.

 

No, I wanted to see how pm101 defends/responds to my opinions. 4/5 I'm still aiming for med school. Mainly because of the potential for research, and (brace yourselves), prestige. <---Yes I just did that. Bring out your spears and torches LOL:p

I don't have a beef with medicine. What I do detest is when people look down on those who want to go into medicine for material reasons. In the end, it's just a profession.

[medigeek]

Nurses serve a purpose as part of the diagnostic team, increasingly these days as more emphasis is being placed on interdisciplinary medical teams. Nurse practitioners are also very valuable members of the medical community, and they both diagnose and prescribe.

 

Paramedics will be the first hands on many patients, and should be valued for their skills in extremely stressful situations.

 

Physiotherapists are invaluable in recovery for patients. They are extraordinarily valuable to the patients' quality of life.

 

I want t be a doctor as much as anyone on this forum, for my own reasons. But do not be so quick to dismiss other health professionals as lesser professionals because they do not have the same scope of practice. Every member of the health care team is valuable in some way to the patient, and the reality of medicine is that no doctor is an island and needs to be able to value the other members of the care team for what they bring to the table.

 

I know I'm not a doctor, so of course you may dismiss what I have to say, but these are opinions I have heard from family members are friends who are health professionals, as well as MDs I am personally acquainted with.

 

NPs are a bunch of bums/wannebe doctors. Go look on SDN for all the mistakes they make/have made where the situation was so simple and routine.

[OttawaURookie]

No, I wanted to see how pm101 defends/responds to my opinions. 4/5 I'm still aiming for med school. Mainly because of the potential for research, and (brace yourselves), prestige. <---Yes I just did that. Bring out your spears and torches LOL:p

I don't have a beef with medicine. What I do detest is when people look down on those who want to go into medicine for material reasons. In the end, it's just a profession.

 

So you wanted to make an important life decision based on anonymous internet posts by people that clearly love the medical profession?

 

Making an important decision based on what others think is never a good idea.

[medigeek]

What is think is the really interesting part about the future is that we're gonna test this hypothesis.

 

When MDs are paid less and work more, will high-achiever 3.9ers still feel passionately about the field?

 

You mean like 200k/year for 50 hours a week? Of course I'd do that. for a family doctor, that is less pay AND more work.

[future_doc]

Prestige is illusory and does not exist except perhaps to those who aspire.

[medigeek]

"OMG How would a high schooler know what adults do. I thought it was a secret club. What is this hacks"

 

I'm not a troll. I've been on this forum for quite some time. My opinions aren't without explained basis. Yes I'm in high school, yes I'm still questioning the path of medicine. That doesn't make me a "troll". It's a hard accusation to call someone a troll. You won't realize it until it happens to you.

 

 

Dude, you're not going to change the world. I can absolutely assure you of that. The extreme combination of intellect and luck required to do something substantial for the world is so difficult to have that your odds are nearly nonexistent.

 

Good luck.