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Robin Hood

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Yes that is what my friend said who is also a lawyer and has been working his ass off for a decade now. He said that people want to justify their good fortune when it comes to them, so they will assume that you have not worked as hard as them if you don't have their money (for example he is a brilliant lawyer but makes less than his doctor wife, that is expected, lawyers in the 30s are never going to make as much as doctors in their 30s.). By contrast though, his wife has a totally different attitude than my "friend".

I like that you use the word "greedy". Some people with bad attitudes are exactly that!

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Another thing that bugs me about some doctors is how they like to talk so so much about how hard their training is. Like great, I understand, but really? You worked 2 years at $50K a year (more like $70K or $80K in terms of take-home pay with tax breaks) and you had to work 60 hours a week and stay up all night sometimes? So fucking what? I've been doing that for 7 years!

I never pulled a single all nighter in training, I've lost count in practice. I would kill to look back on my training as the hard part!

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Sorry, had to vent. I don't consider myself someone who walks around with a huge chip on her shoulder, it just annoys me when people discount your experiences and tell you that you do not have what it takes to reach your dreams (to add more context, she told me that I was intelligent enough and all of that, which makes sense because I tutored the girl when we were in undergrad together!).

It's also particularly rich to be accused of not caring to someone who really has no clue. I have given people tens of thousand dollars worth of legal work for free because I have a soft heart and find it hard to say no! She rakes in $300K and doesn't give any one a dime or a minute of her time :S.

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Nothing wrong with venting, but you may want to avoid posting multiple times! (Just edit if you need to fix a typo!)

 

One of the forum rules:

 

 

4) No multiple posts

Multiple or repeated posting in order to increase your post count is not allowed. Don’t cross-post on the forums. Just post once. Posting a question or comment in multiple forums is annoying to other guests. Posting multiple times in a row in the same thread will result in revision/correction by moderator discretion.
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I just got 71 in a course. I actually failed my exam because I went in with an 89 in the class. Freaking out.

Oh shit. That's tough to deal with. Check your assignments if you had one and see if there is any marks you could salvage by talking to prof, maybe make it a B+?

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I just got 71 in a course. I actually failed my exam because I went in with an 89 in the class. Freaking out.

If it makes you feel any better I got two B-'s this semester, which were 71 and 72 respectively. I worked decently hard too.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about one course with a low mark. I know it is new for you, but just don't think that your grades are ALWAYS indicative of your abilities or who you are as a person. There is always many things you could have done differently (more time, more focus on one section of the material etc) which could make the difference in a final grade between a 60 and a 90. That's how I keep my confidence high with all the courses I've failed.

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Are you sure there wasn't some kind of mistake? Did you have a chance to view your exam?

I just got my mark a few hours ago. I will ask to see my exam on Friday, once I've had a chance to collect my head. Everyone I've talked to dropped by at least 15% with this exam, so I don't think it's a mistake, just an insanely hard exam that he marked exceptionally strictly.  

If it makes you feel any better I got two B-'s this semester, which were 71 and 72 respectively. I worked decently hard too.

I wouldn't worry too much about one course with a low mark. I know it is new for you, but just don't think that your grades are ALWAYS indicative of your abilities or who you are as a person. There is always many things you could have done differently (more time, more focus on one section of the material etc) which could make the difference in a final grade between a 60 and a 90. That's how I keep my confidence high with all the courses I've failed.

I may have to withdraw my Ottawa application over this, because it may not be possible for my GPA to be above my pool's cutoff. I have emailed admissions about it. This is a very big deal. I knew I'd hit bumps, but this is a very serious one and I am reeling at the moment.  

Oh shit. That's tough to deal with. Check your assignments if you had one and see if there is any marks you could salvage by talking to prof, maybe make it a B+?

I had one assignment I did poorly on (78%, which was valid. I looked over it in excruciating detail) but the other two I had 91% and 97%, so there's not much wiggle room there. If I could even get a bump to 73, that would make a huge difference. We (the other students - EVERYONE did poorly, and I know several other high achievers like me who failed the exam) are looking at the possibility of asking the chair to insist on an exam rewrite, or curving the exam grades. We don't know our options yet.
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I just got my mark a few hours ago. I will ask to see my exam on Friday, once I've had a chance to collect my head. Everyone I've talked to dropped by at least 15% with this exam, so I don't think it's a mistake, just an insanely hard exam that he marked exceptionally strictly.   I may have to withdraw my Ottawa application over this, because it may not be possible for my GPA to be above my pool's cutoff. I have emailed admissions about it. This is a very big deal. I knew I'd hit bumps, but this is a very serious one and I am reeling at the moment.   I had one assignment I did poorly on (78%, which was valid. I looked over it in excruciating detail) but the other two I had 91% and 97%, so there's not much wiggle room there. If I could even get a bump to 73, that would make a huge difference. We (the other students - EVERYONE did poorly, and I know several other high achievers like me who failed the exam) are looking at the possibility of asking the chair to insist on an exam rewrite, or curving the exam grades. We don't know our options yet.

 

Rough...wonder how harshly it could have been marked if everyone dropped by 15%. Jeez...

 

My Organic Chem part 1 final exam had an average of 51% (and it was worth half the grade). So many complained for ages because people felt the exam was unfair. In the end, everyone got a 1% addition to their mark. It's not much, but hey it helped some people haha

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Seriously?

If an exam wasn't a fair assessment of understanding of the material, it's valid to raise questions about it. None of us want to be thorns in the side of the department or this professor (who is quite nice), but for a significant portion of the students who typically pull 90%+ in every course, and who went in with very strong marks, to fail or very nearly fail an exam is worth looking into and inquiring about options, wouldn't you think? We couldn't have all been unprepared. I know around a quarter of the small class and have heard of only one person who had higher than 65%.

 

We're looking at what possibilities exist - we're not whining to the chair. Students interact regularly with the department chairs to my school, so speaking with her about this is not as grave as it might be at some schools with more formalized structures for these things.

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If an exam wasn't a fair assessment of understanding of the material, it's valid to raise questions about it. None of us want to be thorns in the side of the department or this professor (who is quite nice), but for a significant portion of the students who typically pull 90%+ in every course, and who went in with very strong marks, to fail or very nearly fail an exam is worth looking into and inquiring about options, wouldn't you think? We couldn't have all been unprepared. I know around a quarter of the small class and have heard of only one person who had higher than 65%.

 

We're looking at what possibilities exist - we're not whining to the chair. Students interact regularly with the department chairs to my school, so speaking with her about this is not as grave as it might be at some schools with more formalized structures for these things.

 

I think it's unlikely that the exam grades were that low. It could have been a spreadsheet error such that everyone was affected globally. It happened in one of my courses were many people dropped a grade level because the coordinators accidentally made an assignment out of more than it was (i.e. out of 100 instead of 10). 

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I just got my mark a few hours ago. I will ask to see my exam on Friday, once I've had a chance to collect my head. Everyone I've talked to dropped by at least 15% with this exam, so I don't think it's a mistake, just an insanely hard exam that he marked exceptionally strictly.   I may have to withdraw my Ottawa application over this, because it may not be possible for my GPA to be above my pool's cutoff. I have emailed admissions about it. This is a very big deal. I knew I'd hit bumps, but this is a very serious one and I am reeling at the moment.   I had one assignment I did poorly on (78%, which was valid. I looked over it in excruciating detail) but the other two I had 91% and 97%, so there's not much wiggle room there. If I could even get a bump to 73, that would make a huge difference. We (the other students - EVERYONE did poorly, and I know several other high achievers like me who failed the exam) are looking at the possibility of asking the chair to insist on an exam rewrite, or curving the exam grades. We don't know our options yet.

Oh I didn't realize it would affect your Ottawa application by that much. Jeez that is really tough. What was last years cutoff for your pool? Is the pool youre in called out of province? And what is your current average?

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 Seriously?

 

As much as I hate people asking for extra marks they didn't earn, there is definitely such a thing as an unfair exam. If that does happen, belling the marks or offering a rewrite is only fair, provided the adjustment provides a reasonable class average (in the high 60's or 70's rather than the 80's or 90's). In this case the adjustment should affect all students equally - people aren't asking for special treatment, they're asking for a fair evaluation for themselves and their classmates.

 

While I haven't initiated any complaints myself, I've experience both a significant belling and a rewrite offer. The first happened in a combined undergrad/grad class and the exam average was so low some grad students' eligibility to continue in the program or apply for PhD studies was at risk. It wasn't that just a few of us did poorly - all of us, comprising mostly A students - did mediocre at best in a class with a first-time teacher. Apparently the department stepped in to force the change. The second happened in a class that was just redesigned but had neglected to figure out that most of us didn't have the necessary prerequisite knowledge (and it was very much required). The course instructors voluntarily offered a rewrite to all students, 90% took it.

 

Point is that there's a difference between trying to alter a bad mark just for yourself and trying to alter a bad mark that hit the whole class.

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If an exam wasn't a fair assessment of understanding of the material, it's valid to raise questions about it. None of us want to be thorns in the side of the department or this professor (who is quite nice), but for a significant portion of the students who typically pull 90%+ in every course, and who went in with very strong marks, to fail or very nearly fail an exam is worth looking into and inquiring about options, wouldn't you think? We couldn't have all been unprepared. I know around a quarter of the small class and have heard of only one person who had higher than 65%.

 

 

The question I have is does the distribution of final marks fall within a normal distribution and within a distribution from previous years? If so, I am not sure there is a complaint UNLESS it's it follows a similar example outlined by Ralk with a redesigned course and maybe even for a new instructor.

 

My issue with this topic (not an issue with you) is do people take issue if they get an easy exam? We've all had an easy exam compared to what we thought we'd be receiving and yet I don't imagine anyone complained about their mark afterwards that it was too easy. Many professors have easier midterm exams compared to finals or vice versa which is done to achieve a specific grade distribution so they don't have to employ artificial means of adjustment. 

 

If the final grade distribution is normal and follows similar patterns of previous years then I don't think a class can complain about unfairness. Grades are achieved on the sum of the whole, not any one particular activity.

 

The only caveat I see to the above is if the exam was heavily weighted or if you were tested on material that wasn't taught and/or testable material was weighted more to material that was perceived to be not very important/relevant but more for "bonus" to those who do study it.

 

Regardless the outcome, glad to see you have such a fluid dynamic at your school between faculty and students. Great environment! And, I am sure this minuscule blip won't see you suffer long-term hardship :)

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Another thing that bugs me about some doctors is how they like to talk so so much about how hard their training is. Like great, I understand, but really? You worked 2 years at $50K a year (more like $70K or $80K in terms of take-home pay with tax breaks) and you had to work 60 hours a week and stay up all night sometimes? So fucking what? I've been doing that for 7 years!

 

I never pulled a single all nighter in training, I've lost count in practice. I would kill to look back on my training as the hard part!

 

It's nice to hear another person say this. They think they're the only ones who put in long, hard hours. Most people don't get paid to be trained and when they do they aren't making 6-10+ times the median income almost immediately when they step into practice. The entitlement is pretty humorous when you consider what their options were for most given the high percentage with health and general sciences degrees.

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Really tough fall semester. Pretty disappointed in myself. Put too much on my plate and it backfired. If I manage to pull all As I'd freaking jump out of my chair. Physics which I felt best about I got approx. 85%. It'll be super tough getting an A+ now. UGH. 

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Really tough fall semester. Pretty disappointed in myself. Put too much on my plate and it backfired. If I manage to pull all As I'd freaking jump out of my chair. Physics which I felt best about I got approx. 85%. It'll be super tough getting an A+ now. UGH. 

 

It happens. Keep trucking.

 

I had a semester where I basically collected a bunch of grades where I was only gently above the class average. I was taking 6 courses and heading up 3 executive committees, doing reseach and volunteering at TGH at the same time. That sucked. But I got through it. 

 

Give yourself time and space; there's tougher battles coming up and you might as well learn your limits now rather than later.

 

Just enjoy the holidays for now. :)

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