What's On Your Mind?

[chronicconic]

Indeed. Pharmacy could be an exciting alternative, especially with the expansion of their roles toward patient care. The primary thing discouraging me from pursuing it is their pitiful salary in comparison to docs.

[rmorelan]

Indeed. Pharmacy could be an exciting alternative, especially with the expansion of their roles toward patient care. The primary thing discouraging me from pursuing it is their pitiful salary in comparison to docs.

 

That is what - around 100-110K a year? I mean that is nothing to sneeze at.

[chronicconic]

That is what - around 100-110K a year? I mean that is nothing to sneeze at.

Median salary is 98K in Canada, I believe. That is a comfortable salary, but with little room for upwards career movement and high debt from school, it seems like a bad choice, financially speaking.

 

Before I consider a change in career, I need to learn how to cope with the failure to achieve my long-term career goal . It's sort of like an early-mid-life crisis. 

[rmorelan]

Median salary is 98K in Canada, I believe. That is a comfortable salary, but with little room for upwards career movement and high debt from school, it seems like a bad choice, financially speaking.

 

Before I consider a change in career, I need to learn how to cope with the failure to achieve my long-term career goal . It's sort of like an early-mid-life crisis. 

 

yeah it certainly is a big decision - actually don't know much about the costs of pharmacy - what is the tuition cost for the program?

 

one thing about most Canadian health care jobs is there is really an immediate ceiling to earnings is most cases.

[FeministKilljoy]

The pharmacist at the hospital where I worked for many years drove an audi SUV... I don't think she was suffering by any means.

[rmorelan]

The pharmacist at the hospital where I worked for many years drove an audi SUV... I don't think she was suffering by any means.

 

probably not - although I am very wary about actually figuring out people true wealth from the car they drive ha (blah, blah income isn't wealth, and a lot of people with fancy things are in debit up to their eye balls).

 

read a book about that actually once - millionaire next door I think it was called.

[_ _]

The pharmacist at the hospital where I worked for many years drove an audi SUV... I don't think she was suffering by any means.

 

Exactly. 100K is far, far from suffering

Median salary is 98K in Canada, I believe. That is a comfortable salary, but with little room for upwards career movement and high debt from school, it seems like a bad choice, financially speaking.

 

Before I consider a change in career, I need to learn how to cope with the failure to achieve my long-term career goal . It's sort of like an early-mid-life crisis. 

Making 100K puts you in the top 5% of of ENTIRE country of Canada. I wouldn't call that 'pitiful' compensation despite that you start with debt. Out of a room of 100 Canadians, 95 would make less than you. 

 

That's double the national average. Double.

[rmorelan]

Exactly. 100K is far, far from suffering

Making 100K puts you in the top 5% of of ENTIRE country of Canada. I wouldn't call that 'pitiful' compensation despite that you start with debt. Out of a room of 100 Canadians, 95 would make less than you. 

 

That's double the national average. Double.

 

it is true - this forum annoying seems to skew what is normal I think - and completely ignores the fact that people in other fields are earning that income say 5+ years earlier than medicine in many cases (actually statistically speaking MOST cases). 

 

100K a year is a great income - and usually families are duel income now so that isn't even likely the final income either. Put on one of those "boring" pay yourself first savings approaches and you will end up very well indeed.

[Bambi]

People tend to use either or all of income, capital or lifestyle to judge the "wealth" of others.

 

However, many people live in debt beyond their means - so another's lifestyle does not indicate their actual wealth.

Many people live on all their income and have no capital, so income is not a meaningful way to judge another's wealth. Many very high income earners lose their job, and they literally have no money to pay their next month's rent or car payment.

 

Most young professionals have a degree of debt that they are paying off, live modestly and are already contributing to their TFSA, perhaps a pension plan and are slowly building capital for their retirement.

 

At the end of the day, "wealth" is having good health and a fulfilling professional and family life. 

[amichel]

Exactly. 100K is far, far from suffering

Making 100K puts you in the top 5% of of ENTIRE country of Canada. I wouldn't call that 'pitiful' compensation despite that you start with debt. Out of a room of 100 Canadians, 95 would make less than you.

 

That's double the national average. Double.

Pretty sure they meant median income for pharmacists. Not Canadians.

[rmorelan]

Pretty sure they meant median income for pharmacists. Not Canadians.

Though pt the OP was just pointing out that saying earning more than 50% than the median Canadian income is not a small amount

 

Or 35% more than the median household income - not bad for only one person.

[chronicconic]

I'd just like to clarify what I meant about the salary issue. 100 k is indeed above the median income, and is a far higher than salary than most jobs. However, coupled with the long duration of training (8 years minimum) and high cost of tuition (at UofA, Pharmacy tuition costs nearly as much as Medicine), the 100 k salary you're potentially making is quite diminished.

[rmorelan]

I'd just like to clarify what I meant about the salary issue. 100 k is indeed above the median income, and is a far higher than salary than most jobs. However, coupled with the long duration of training (8 years minimum) and high cost of tuition (at UofA, Pharmacy tuition costs nearly as much as Medicine), the 100 k salary you're potentially making is quite diminished.

Yeah makes sense - looked into those tuition costs - yeah, ahhh seems extreme. I know the universities worked to increase things with deregulation but that really seems unfairly high in this case.

[rmorelan]

Thinking about housing options for a family in NFLD!!!!!

 

hey congrats!

[rmorelan]

People tend to use either or all of income, capital or lifestyle to judge the "wealth" of others.

 

However, many people live in debt beyond their means - so another's lifestyle does not indicate their actual wealth.

Many people live on all their income and have no capital, so income is not a meaningful way to judge another's wealth. Many very high income earners lose their job, and they literally have no money to pay their next month's rent or car payment.

 

Most young professionals have a degree of debt that they are paying off, live modestly and are already contributing to their TFSA, perhaps a pension plan and are slowly building capital for their retirement.

 

At the end of the day, "wealth" is having good health and a fulfilling professional and family life. 

 

ha, I would say most SHOULD be doing that - whether they are or not is another story A lot of professionals - doctors in particular are not very good at managing their money

[Bambi]

As a young resident, I am trying to be financially disciplined. 

[medafter30]

How is it that its only 1st year in medical school and I already feel almost burnt out?  #whinymedstudent

[chronicconic]

How is it that its only 1st year in medical school and I already feel almost burnt out?  #whinymedstudent

 

This has always been a constant fear for me, should I get into Med school. I was definitely burnt out by the end of my Bachelor's because I wasn't taking care of myself, e.g. no exercise, late night cramming sessions, little sleep. I'm trying to take better care of myself now

[Birdy]

How is it that its only 1st year in medical school and I already feel almost burnt out? #whinymedstudent

Because it's a sudden huge dump of information and there's the "if I don't learn this I could kill someone" unspoken pressure that I think many of us place on ourselves. Med school is known to be intensive for a reason.

 

Make sure you reach out to your student supports if you continue having a hard time. There's help to manage the strain.

[rmorelan]

Because it's a sudden huge dump of information and there's the "if I don't learn this I could kill someone" unspoken pressure that I think many of us place on ourselves. Med school is known to be intensive for a reason.

 

Make sure you reach out to your student supports if you continue having a hard time. There's help to manage the strain.

 

It isn't easy - that is why there is so much focus on student health, and you personally simply HAVE TO do what you can to maintain proper wellness. There are going to be long night, high stress, pressures both overt and subtle, and a lot on the line. You have to take the time to take care of yourself during all of this.

 

One my favourite student affairs chairs said that it is a marathon (sadly no longer with us)- and it is really. Sprinting doesn't work, it is a 10 years of training for many. You cannot ignore the self care aspect of this or you will get into trouble.

[rmorelan]

ahh the joys of call shifts - just finished a 24 hour shift. even after all this time I am still surprised we collectively think it is safe enough to let people run around all night in such a sleep deprived state

[Beacon]

ahh the joys of call shifts - just finished a 24 hour shift. even after all this time I am still surprised we collectively think it is safe enough to let people run around all night in such a sleep deprived state

 

Is it really collectively thought of to be safe? Or is it out of necessity in order to include as much procedural experience as possible in a short span of training time (surgery especially)? 

[Bambi]

Limited resources.

[rmorelan]

Is it really collectively thought of to be safe? Or is it out of necessity in order to include as much procedural experience as possible in a short span of training time (surgery especially)? 

 

well you can never argue an unsafe procedure I guess because you will get sued and the PR would not exactly be fun ha. So it would have to be at least as safe as any reasonable alternative.

 

- in some fields like mine I would argue it isn't about limited resources - I mean we could take our existing radiology staff and break it up to cover all things over 24 hours. The bulk of radiology after all is still out patient imaging or imaging that needs to be read in 24/48 hours. Some one could be sitting there as staff and reading what few emerg cases there are relatively speaking and just doing outpatient stuff when there is nothing else to read.

 

we don't - that is a more of a convenience thing (not trying to assign a value judgement to that - I mean if you create a horrible work environment you could argue something will suffer). We are a bit different I admit of course - I mean patients wouldn't like to have an appointment with their doctor at 3am ha

[Beacon]

well you can never argue an unsafe procedure I guess because you will get sued and the PR would not exactly be fun ha. So it would have to be at least as safe as any reasonable alternative.

 

- in some fields like mine I would argue it isn't about limited resources - I mean we could take our existing radiology staff and break it up to cover all things over 24 hours. The bulk of radiology after all is still out patient imaging or imaging that needs to be read in 24/48 hours. Some one could be sitting there as staff and reading what few emerg cases there are relatively speaking and just doing outpatient stuff when there is nothing else to read.

 

we don't - that is a more of a convenience thing (not trying to assign a value judgement to that - I mean if you create a horrible work environment you could argue something will suffer). We are a bit different I admit of course - I mean patients wouldn't like to have an appointment with their doctor at 3am ha

 

I meant the sleep-deprivation aspect of things. Of course, I believe this would differ by specialty, but is it really necessary for all specialties to have bad call hours (for the ones which do)? 

 

I read once in an article (I believe surgical staff was saying) that one of the reasons that the hours are tough for surgical residents is because residents should see 99 "wrongs" in order to be able to identify what is right (something along those lines..). However, is this idea also applicable to other specialties? Or are the hours like they are because of the high workloads and under staffing issues?