mavrik13 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 When you are talking about competitive specialties does it really matter what one backs up with? Not many people back up with a competitive specialty... It is the other way around. Probably why there is not a huge amount of movement in the top several spots. I agree though as you get towards the middle of the pack it gets more interesting when you look at that ratio. I agree - but the argument was that ER appeared overly competitive because many people choosing surgical specialties were backing up with ER. As you can see, this isn't the case, as ER is still competitive when looking at the ratio of first choice applicants to available spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I agree - but the argument was that ER appeared overly competitive because many people choosing surgical specialties were backing up with ER. As you can see, this isn't the case, as ER is still competitive when looking at the ratio of first choice applicants to available spots. Ah, I see what you are saying. Yeah, the vast majority of people who match to EM are not backing up with EM. It is the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinase Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Ah, I see what you are saying. Yeah, the vast majority of people who match to EM are not backing up with EM. It is the other way around. someone in my class this year didn't match in general surgery (ranked many places), his first choice, and match in EM in a highly competitive city, his backup... anything can happen. It's case by case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 someone in my class this year didn't match in general surgery (ranked many places), his first choice, and match in EM in a highly competitive city, his backup... anything can happen. It's case by case. True - CARMS is a strange beast. still I mean the vast majority of people in the upper group aren't backing up with another hard core specialty, including ER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 someone in my class this year didn't match in general surgery (ranked many places), his first choice, and match in EM in a highly competitive city, his backup... anything can happen. It's case by case. Sure anything can happen. But from my vantage point it is clear that the above situation would be the exception rather than the norm. We all have our wonky stories about guy XYZ etc. If you are planning for CaRMS you never want to plan to be an exception. Don't apply to EM thinking that it is a safe backup. It is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Keeping in mind that your backup should also be safe in terms of leading to future employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2bat0r Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 So if you go the 2 +1 route to Family + EM, do you initially just match to a regular family program, or is it a "special" family program that feeds directly into the +1 emerg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 The data is based on a single year (2012), which is a major weakness. For a more accurate picture, you need to look at a 5 years worth or so. It also says little about the quality expected of each candidate. Most people I know who got into peds, Gen Sx or OB-GYN didn't have near as impressive CV's as people I know who tried for Urology (either successfully or unsuccessfully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 So if you go the 2 +1 route to Family + EM, do you initially just match to a regular family program, or is it a "special" family program that feeds directly into the +1 emerg? You match to family first. Then do CaRMS again during R2 of family and rematch into a CCFP EM program and do another year. An exception to this is a program associated with Dal in New Brunswick. They have a direct entry 2+1 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 You match to family first. Then do CaRMS again in R2 of family and rematch into a CCFP EM program and do another year. An exception to this is program associated with Dal in New Brunswick. They have a direct entry 2+1 . and you may not be successful in that attempt either. 2+1 emerg is not guaranteed after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2bat0r Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Thanks for the insight! I know I've tried asking this in the past, but didn't get a direct answer... Is there any drawback to taking the 2+1 emerg route over the 5 year route? Are you less likely to get employed? Is your scope of practice more limited? Do you get a lower income? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Thanks for the insight! I know I've tried asking this in the past, but didn't get a direct answer... Is there any drawback to taking the 2+1 emerg route over the 5 year route? Are you less likely to get employed? Is your scope of practice more limited? Do you get a lower income? Thanks! My somewhat crude assessment based on all the talks etc we have had is that income is the same, and in theory the practise is the same. The problem is that the 5 year is much more likely to be able to get a job at a major centre - some only hire 5 years for instance right out. Makes sense - that training must be more intense and focused after all. You are better trained in some areas, and better prepared to research etc. Not to say a 2+1 could never get a job at a tertiary care centre, but it is harder. The drawback is of course you are only an emerg doc. A 2+1 can still shift between emerg and family. When you are 50+ maybe those random shiftwork all over the place become less appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 https://www.oma.org/Member/Resources/Documents/SelectedStatisticsOnPhysicianBillingsAndHumanResources.pdf seems to show ER at the low-end, any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Shift work lets a lot of them work part time, or reduced hours, so table 1 shows a low average income for ER. Tables 2 and 3 show a much smaller gap, by eliminating the lowest billing providers. Also note that these are gross billings, before overhead/expenses, which are minimal for ER. This lowers the gap in take home pay even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavrik13 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 https://www.oma.org/Member/Resources/Documents/SelectedStatisticsOnPhysicianBillingsAndHumanResources.pdf seems to show ER at the low-end, any comments? Could you post the pdf in a way that the rest of us can take a look, e.g. Dropbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economist Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Membership/profiles/Emergency_en.pdf According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information’s National Physician Database 2009-2010, the average gross fee-for-service payment in 2009-10 per family physician certified in emergency medicine was $238,764 and $301,990 for an RCPSC-certified emergency physician. Note that this is gross billings and does not take into account 2009-10 deductions for overhead expenses, taxes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Membership/profiles/Emergency_en.pdf Interesting difference considering they are all using the same billing codes etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALX Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 This provides an idea into how much an ER physician makes. For 30 hours a week this is very decent pay IMO... https://www.canamrecruiting.com/ViewJob.php?JobID=741 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economist Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 This provides an idea into how much an ER physician makes. For 30 hours a week this is very decent pay IMO... https://www.canamrecruiting.com/ViewJob.php?JobID=741 Why is it so different from the link I just posted? And in the link I posted, they say that even though you work 30 hrs/week, there are additional 20 somewhat hours spent for administrative + etc work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALX Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Why is it so different from the link I just posted? And in the link I posted, they say that even though you work 30 hrs/week, there are additional 20 somewhat hours spent for administrative + etc work... Not so sure, my guess is the information provided in the link you posted is purely from academic sites possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandibular Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 This provides an idea into how much an ER physician makes. For 30 hours a week this is very decent pay IMO... https://www.canamrecruiting.com/ViewJob.php?JobID=741 thats sick!!! sounds great actually they forgot to mention there's no pager disturbance once you get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 thats sick!!! sounds great actually they forgot to mention there's no pager disturbance once you get home Honestly one of the best parts of some specialties is the turn off factor. When you are off, you are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Why is it so different from the link I just posted? And in the link I posted, they say that even though you work 30 hrs/week, there are additional 20 somewhat hours spent for administrative + etc work... Probably different because it is in southwestern Ontario which is not as desirable as eastern or southern Ontario. Similarly incomes go up in the north ... Often in southwest as well as you have noticed. Beef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka84 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I wish some of them did carry pagers. Maybe it would help their judgement when it was appropriate to call a consulting service. It's amazing how quickly they forget what it means to be on call. Some outwardly state that they enjoy abusing residents that are in-house call. Rant over. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2bat0r Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 haha bazinga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.