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Theists vs Atheists/Agnostics


Orcamute

Do you believe in a God?  

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  1. 1. Do you believe in a God?



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If atheists think that theists are stupid for believing in God, does that make Descartes, Socrates, and Kierkegaard, and Kant stupid?

 

I don't think atheists generally think that theists are stupid.

 

That said, one can be stupid in certain domains with being a 'stupid' person in general. Linus Pauling wasn't stupid, but his beliefs about vitamin C were. So I think you're setting up a false dichotomy.

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I don't think atheists generally think that theists are stupid.

 

That said, one can be stupid in certain domains with being a 'stupid' person in general. Linus Pauling wasn't stupid, but his beliefs about vitamin C were. So I think you're setting up a false dichotomy.

 

The people I named were philosophers, so I think it's relevent to their belief in God.

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It is perfectly possible to be a Christian and also be a scientist. Believing in God and Jesus Christ doesn't mean you believe that the Bible is literal or that evolution didn't happen. Most Christians that I know (I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic schools my entire life), do NOT take the Bible literally. They recognize that it was written by people (divinely inspired, but still flawed humans) who were writing for a particular audience at a particular time. It is not to be taken literally. Even the Vatican has scientists in residence these days, including an official Vatican astronomer!

 

Here is some terrific information from Denis Lamoureux from the University of Alberta on how it is possible to be Christian and be a scientist.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/

http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/ilj_preface.pdf

http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/1_beyond/index.html

As he says: "the Bible teaches us THAT God is the creator, and not HOW"

 

Right...... humans have been around for 200,000 years.. earth for 4.54 billion.. universe ofr 13.7 billion... and christianity for 2000 years. Seems legit. :rolleyes:

 

So you read that people who wrote the bible were divinely inspired and you believe it? brb zero evidence, just taking someone's word

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NO! This is an absolute fallacy. You can't prove non-existence. It's simply not possible. The burden of proof is ABSOLUTELY on the people who claim a certain thing exists. Atheism is fundamentally a LACK of a belief. I think god doesn't exist to the same extent that I think unicorns don't exist. I'm fairly sure they don't exist because I've never seen a shred of evidence in favour of either, but if you bring me a unicorn or god one day, I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong.

 

Atheists provide evidence for the things they make claims about, such as evolution, cosmology, etc.

You're taking a stance on the proposition "God exists" -- you're saying "God does not exist" . . . how is that not a belief?

If you've never entertained the thought of God existing or not existing, i.e. a non-position on the proposition "God exists", then yes you would not require evidence. But atheists say "God does not exist", therefore you need just as much evidence as a theist. Without proof, your belief is just as irrational.

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Just in here to clarify that being atheist means you are of the belief that there is absolutely no god. If you aren't of any belief or you're not sure, you're an agnostic.

 

Yes sir.

 

To be an Atheist would inhabit the same false faith hood that theists portrait. If you don't believe in a God because there is no evidence but won't put faith into the matter that there is absolutely not a god.. then you are an Agnostic.

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If atheists think that theists are stupid for believing in God, does that make Descartes, Socrates, and Kierkegaard, and Kant stupid?

 

Those philosophers lived in a different time and their points of view went only as far as the knowledge circulating at the time would allow. We've come so much further along since then.

 

An answer that addresses this question/stance (not written by me):

 

Question

 

An Evolutionary Argument against (Christian) Theism

Hello Dr. Craig,

 

......

 

by William Lane Craig | Submit your question to Dr. Craig

 

Source: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/an-evolutionary-argument-against-christian-theism

 

That is long. I'll have to give it a proper read another time but if you're a fan of Dr. William Lane Craig, you should watch his debate with Christopher Hitchens on youtube.

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Those philosophers lived in a different time and their points of view went only as far as the knowledge circulating at the time would allow. We've come so much further along since then.

 

 

 

That is long. I'll have to give it a proper read another time but if you're a fan of Dr. William Lane Craig' date=' you should watch his debate with Christopher Hitchens on youtube.[/quote']

 

I am a fan of his :) and I did! It was pretty good, WLC completely took him over, but I felt as though Hitchens actually had more/better to articulate than he actually did in the debate, but for some reason he was not pulling it together, which was too bad b/c it would have made for good discussion ... did you watch the full thing? :)

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For people who believe in God, a question . . . Why doesn't God show himself to us (or let us know of his existence)? What's the point of this absence, in your opinion?

 

Well cause he wants to test our faith in some book that claims to be right. Duhhh :rolleyes:

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You're taking a stance on the proposition "God exists" -- you're saying "God does not exist" . . . how is that not a belief?

If you've never entertained the thought of God existing or not existing, i.e. a non-position on the proposition "God exists", then yes you would not require evidence. But atheists say "God does not exist", therefore you need just as much evidence as a theist. Without proof, your belief is just as irrational.

 

No because the idea of a god never existed before humans came up with it. The entire concept is man made and evolved.

If I bring a random idea to the table, I'm the one who needs to provide evidence. I can't just throw out random ideas and say "if you can't prove em wrong, then I'm right!"

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Weren't the philosophers trying to bring explainations to stuff. They were among the most skeptic people.

 

And their explanations were limited to available knowledge at the time. There was a point in time where it made sense to worship the sun. And claim that thunder was the gods being angry.

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bingo :cool:

 

Lol I have to agree with this. Using the Bible or any religious text to defend Gods existence seems illogical. Those texts represent thousands of years of people presupposing god's existence and trying to do his supposed will/trying to understand him. It lends nothing to a valid argument of god's existence.

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First of all, I did not say that you must believe one or other, but that they are incompatible systems of thought (hence, cognitive dissonance).

 

I have to disagree that they are incompatible systems. We know far far far less about the universe than we understand about it, and that is just on Earth never mind the rest of the presently "known" universe. As scientists do we have actual evidence that the universe is accidental and godless? How would we even test that hypothesis in an experiment? Scientific thought is still very new and to make a generalization about god from our current level of scientific knowledge seems premature.

 

To take that and state that because someone believes that god may exist they must be experiencing cognitive dissonace because science and a belief in god are mutually exclusive seems to be overstepping scientific speculation about ultimate causes. As I have said before if we are truly being reasonable, I suppose the answer would be I don't know. If we as a species ever get to a place where can actual design an experiment to test for god's existence I hope there will be someone who won't just ignore the data for fear of looking like a fool to his/her colleagues. For the time being and probably for a LONG time we simply are not in a place to make that kind of generalization, and if you believe we are well I may find that deeply concerning.

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Right...... humans have been around for 200,000 years.. earth for 4.54 billion.. universe ofr 13.7 billion... and christianity for 2000 years. Seems legit. :rolleyes:

 

So you read that people who wrote the bible were divinely inspired and you believe it? brb zero evidence, just taking someone's word

 

Did I give any indication as to what I believe? No. I simply stated that I grew up in the Catholic tradition, and that everyone I've ever known who was or is Catholic believes in God, Jesus Christ, but also in evolution and science. You can believe in both.

 

I would probably best described as agnostic. I'm not so full of myself as to think I have all the answers, or that I can state definitively that there is no God, or greater spiritual power, or something else out there. I just don't know. But I was brought up Catholic, and again, everyone I know who is Catholic believes in evolution, in science, and also in God. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

I've also seen religion provide a great deal of help and comfort to some individuals. I've seen it make huge differences in people's lives, so I'm not about to discount it.

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