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Lines of Credit for Medical Students (Scotia is the best option)

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3 hours ago, shematoma said:

What the banks are doing by offering Prime minus 0.25 is simply bringing their prime rate in line with what it used to be. The last time interest rates were cut the banks did not lower their prime rate accordingly and so there was a larger spread between prime and the bank of Canada's key lending rate. As interest rates have risen, the banks never restored the former gap between the prime rate and the key lending rate. There for offering the line of credit at Prime - 0.25 simply brings things back into line with what they used to be

yeah I think it basically was the banks saying - look we don't believe things are as risk free as you are making them out to be so we are not dropping this rate the full amount you are. Kind of a unique situation because the rates were so low for so long. The prime -0.25 does just restore to almost baseline :)

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11 hours ago, rmorelan said:

yeah I think it basically was the banks saying - look we don't believe things are as risk free as you are making them out to be so we are not dropping this rate the full amount you are. Kind of a unique situation because the rates were so low for so long. The prime -0.25 does just restore to almost baseline :)

But what happens when interest makes it's way back to 10 percent? How are med student or residents going to be able to afford medical education when the interest rates are debilitating? 

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37 minutes ago, Canadiens1234 said:

But what happens when interest makes it's way back to 10 percent? How are med student or residents going to be able to afford medical education when the interest rates are debilitating? 

I don't know. Perhaps we could ask people who were studying in the 80s?

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39 minutes ago, Canadiens1234 said:

But what happens when interest makes it's way back to 10 percent? How are med student or residents going to be able to afford medical education when the interest rates are debilitating? 

They are not - and that is the basic problem. We have off loaded the issue of "how will we pay for this" to private corporations instead of creating an accessible medical education system. This has worked as long as the interests are low and no one has complained because they are just grateful they got in.  Everyone ignored this completely - and not just medicine, but all the professional degrees. 

 

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4 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

They are not - and that is the basic problem. We have off loaded the issue of "how will we pay for this" to private corporations instead of creating an accessible medical education system. This has worked as long as the interests are low and no one has complained because they are just grateful they got in.  Everyone ignored this completely - and not just medicine, but all the professional degrees. 

But, it is tough to have a call to action when the tuition fees are astronomical in the US - we are constantly being told - "oh be grateful that you were accepted to a Canadian medical school." Back in the day, tuition was relatively cheap and the tuition growth over the years have definitely increased in real dollar terms  (esp. past 10 years). 

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7 minutes ago, Canadiens1234 said:

I can't tell if your being purposefully obtuse, but tuition was much lower in 80s. It's a completely different scenario. 

You see, I'm not an expert in that field, and I quite specifically said "I don't know". Tuition fees were probably much lower, but by how much? I haven't seen any numbers on the web, and especially not here. CPI alone has inflated by over 300% since that time, so a 300% increase would not seem disproportionate.

Does that suggest that a problem does not exist today? Absolutely not, and nothing I've said suggests this. But being "in a different scenario" does not mean that you can't find enlightening pieces of information by asking people which were in a different scenario but with some similar features.

Perhaps instead of calling people obtuse, you could try to see what they're bringing to the discussion?

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On 6/14/2018 at 9:11 AM, jul059 said:

You see, I'm not an expert in that field, and I quite specifically said "I don't know". Tuition fees were probably much lower, but by how much? I haven't seen any numbers on the web, and especially not here. CPI alone has inflated by over 300% since that time, so a 300% increase would not seem disproportionate.

Does that suggest that a problem does not exist today? Absolutely not, and nothing I've said suggests this. But being "in a different scenario" does not mean that you can't find enlightening pieces of information by asking people which were in a different scenario but with some similar features.

Perhaps instead of calling people obtuse, you could try to see what they're bringing to the discussion?

Here's some more debt information gathered by the AFMC: "Percentage of students with no debt increases, but median medical school debt rises. The percentage of medical students graduating with no debt increased slightly from 13.7% in 2016 to 15.0% in 2017; however, for those students with debt, the median amount of debt increased from $80,000 in 2016 to $94,000 in 2017. Furthermore, the percentage of students graduating with debt exceeding $200,000 slightly increased from 9.9% in 2016 to 11.6% in 2017." It comes with no surprise that the banks are upping the limit for the LOC. The general sentiment is that the government has offloaded a lot of the financing responsibility onto the student (excluding Quebec) and left students relying on private entities for much of their studies. And depending on which med school you go to in Canada, there can be a big difference as well. 

@jul059 - I presume you are an IP Quebec med student? Students' lobbying for flat tuition fees have largely worked in Quebec which is why we haven't seen as drastic of increases in Qc compared to ROC.

 

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34 minutes ago, jul059 said:

You see, I'm not an expert in that field, and I quite specifically said "I don't know". Tuition fees were probably much lower, but by how much? I haven't seen any numbers on the web, and especially not here. CPI alone has inflated by over 300% since that time, so a 300% increase would not seem disproportionate.

Does that suggest that a problem does not exist today? Absolutely not, and nothing I've said suggests this. But being "in a different scenario" does not mean that you can't find enlightening pieces of information by asking people which were in a different scenario but with some similar features.

Perhaps instead of calling people obtuse, you could try to see what they're bringing to the discussion?

Anecdotally, but I worked with a few physicians who trained in the 70's and 80's who apparently paid off their tuition each year just by working summer jobs at local businesses (stores, factories, etc) during their summer break. Some rough napkin math - today if one worked 40 hrs/week at minimum wage of $14/hr for 3 months, they would make $6720, which is around a quarter of what my tuition costs. So tuition has definitely increased more than our potential to pay it off without debt.

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1 minute ago, clever_smart_boy_like_me said:

If someone were given a 275k or 300k loan and decided to use all of it at once do you start paying interest immediately or is it like student loans from undergrad with a 6 month grace period after graduating?

right away, clever smart boy

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Just now, clever_smart_boy_like_me said:

I'm (hopefully) a year out from thinking about this so naturally I know very little. 

Roughly how much per year would that be for four years? Thanks :)

its just simple math... interest rate (prime -0.25 which is 3.25% now, but can change any time) x however much you're loaning out. I believe it's compounded monthly.

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2 minutes ago, clever_smart_boy_like_me said:

I'm (hopefully) a year out from thinking about this so naturally I know very little. 

Roughly how much per year would that be for four years? Thanks :)

It depends on how much you use. A line of credit is a bit like a huge credit card with much lower interest rates. If you use 100k, you'd pay about 3200$ in interest every year.

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2 hours ago, la marzocco said:

But, it is tough to have a call to action when the tuition fees are astronomical in the US - we are constantly being told - "oh be grateful that you were accepted to a Canadian medical school." Back in the day, tuition was relatively cheap and the tuition growth over the years have definitely increased in real dollar terms  (esp. past 10 years). 

well sure but I think the fact that it was still possible was the real reason people were just not that considered. My fear is that some point it simply WON'T be possible the way we are going - we are supposed to look to the US of exactly how not to do this. We even have Quebec as a model in Canada where it is done differently. 

Interest rates will rise at some point - they are roughly 1/2 of historical values now. This could be messy. 

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Well apparently the momentum is not supposed to be offered and the agent can get fired for it, hence you losing a knowledgeable agent, or so the scotia advisors on here have said. I myself am waiting on the LOC lol.

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51 minutes ago, IMislove said:

Well apparently the momentum is not supposed to be offered and the agent can get fired for it, hence you losing a knowledgeable agent, or so the scotia advisors on here have said. I myself am waiting on the LOC lol.

or (heaven forbid ha) you can pay the 39 dollars a year for the momentum card if you are extremely passionate about having that. To put it in perspective I generate with all the major purchases required in residency (mostly conference and exam fees - those are annoyingly high ha) well over $200 payback a year on that card and I am I think rather frugal. I would consider paying for it because I would still be out ahead - well ahead. Moving forward I am considering dropping the momentum in favour of their standard package because as a fellow I will doing a lot more travel. 

I am all about being organized and maximizing things here - but of course have perspective as well :)

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1 minute ago, rmorelan said:

or (heaven forbid ha) you can pay the 39 dollars a year for the momentum card if you are extremely passionate about having that. To put it in perspective I generate with all the major purchases required in residency (mostly conference and exam fees - those are annoyingly high ha) well over $200 payback a year on that card and I am I think rather frugal. I would consider paying for it because I would still be out ahead - well ahead. Moving forward I am considering dropping the momentum in favour of their standard package because as a fellow I will doing a lot more travel. 

I am all about being organized and maximizing things here - but of course have perspective as well :)

I think people are referring to the infinite momentum ($99) but you're still right. The payback is substantially higher than the annual fee. I've earned $650 back this year through my regular purchases (gas, groceries, etc.) using the infinite momentum and benefitted from the waived annual fee.

 

1 hour ago, leothelion said:

What would you guys say the best credit card combo is with scotia? (Picking two out of the American Express Gold, Visa Infinite Passport, and Visa Infinite Momentum?)

I would say infinite passport/infinite momentum. 4% cashback on groceries/gas, 2% on drug stores/recurring purchases and 1% on everything else on top of great travel medical insurance and other benefits (extended warranty, etc.). The infinite passport is great for the lounge visits and travel rewards accumulation, plus both cards are visa and accepted widely compared to AmEx.

 

1 hour ago, IMislove said:

Well apparently the momentum is not supposed to be offered and the agent can get fired for it, hence you losing a knowledgeable agent, or so the scotia advisors on here have said. I myself am waiting on the LOC lol.

If your advisor knows the right people at 40 King (Scotia HQ), they'll be able to pull off a lot more than you thinkB)

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1 hour ago, Coronaxtra said:

I think people are referring to the infinite momentum ($99) but you're still right. The payback is substantially higher than the annual fee. I've earned $650 back this year through my regular purchases (gas, groceries, etc.) using the infinite momentum and benefitted from the waived annual fee.

 

I would say infinite passport/infinite momentum. 4% cashback on groceries/gas, 2% on drug stores/recurring purchases and 1% on everything else on top of great travel medical insurance and other benefits (extended warranty, etc.). The infinite passport is great for the lounge visits and travel rewards accumulation, plus both cards are visa and accepted widely compared to AmEx.

 

If your advisor knows the right people at 40 King (Scotia HQ), they'll be able to pull off a lot more than you thinkB)

ha ok that is a bit more expensive - probably getting into the range of concern :)

 

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4 hours ago, IMislove said:

Well apparently the momentum is not supposed to be offered and the agent can get fired for it, hence you losing a knowledgeable agent, or so the scotia advisors on here have said. I myself am waiting on the LOC lol.

I highly doubt an agent would be fired for waiving the annual fee on a credit card. Maybe they'll get reprimanded, but it might be worth their while if they're seen to be pulling in lots of new business.

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3 hours ago, shematoma said:

I highly doubt an agent would be fired for waiving the annual fee on a credit card. Maybe they'll get reprimanded, but it might be worth their while if they're seen to be pulling in lots of new business.

I mean the two scotia advisors on here said it, so I guess take their word for it or not. End of the day do your own risk assessment of the situation. I’ll probably still ask for the momentum. 

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12 hours ago, IMislove said:

I mean the two scotia advisors on here said it, so I guess take their word for it or not. End of the day do your own risk assessment of the situation. I’ll probably still ask for the momentum. 

I mean at the end of the day if you are told not to do something, and you keep doing it - particularly at a institution built on trust etc like a bank they probably will be issues long term

Nothing stopping anyone from asking, but the same package information seems to be coming from multiple sources (well beyond the two people here etc). There is no "risk" to any particular med student in asking of course. 

 

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