Think I will get in? Really want to be a dentist and I think I've proved myself aside

[Mattybear89]

McMaster University grad. I'll cut to the facts..

 

5yr undergrad Major- Biology Minor- Astrobiology

yearly avgs (2.5, 2.7, 3.2, 3.6, 3.8)

 

2yr Masters Medical Sciences (Thesis - only 1 class per year)

yearly avgs (4.0, 4.0)

 

DAT (canadian) Bio (19) Chem (21) Reading Comp (24) AA (21) Pat (18)

 

3000 hrs (a lot!) shadowing including work in Kenya and Tanzania

2 scientific publications (including a textbook chapter) working on a 3rd

 

JUST worried about my Undergrad GPA cumulative it's only like 3.2 (the first few years hit me HARD! )

 

please be honest! I know my slow start hurts a lot but I have tons

of experience and made up for that in my later years and masters... I just

hope that's enough to cover the blackspot on my application.. ughh

[Ostracized]

You might have a decent chance at schools that drop one or two lowest years. I got into UofT with an overall 3.5 GPA and a masters, but that was 6 years ago.

[mrewmrew]

I would apply to schools that use extracurriculars and what not in their admission decisions. McGill comes to mind. Avoid the super GPA heavy schools like uoft uwo and sask. The three schools I just listed do not consider extracurriculars, references etc. at all, and extracurriculars seems to be your strong point.

[z12345]

I would apply to schools that use extracurriculars and what not in their admission decisions. McGill comes to mind. Avoid the super GPA heavy schools like uoft uwo and sask. The three schools I just listed do not consider extracurriculars, references etc. at all, and extracurriculars seems to be your strong point.

 

Unless the OP is a Quebec resident, McGill is pretty much off the table as things stand, and would even be difficult if he/she were a Qc resident. For McGill, academic achievement is determined from the academic record in undergraduate studies. For the previous years class, the lowest OOP GPA interviewed was 3.63 (avg. admitted 3.87), and IP 3.3 (avg. admitted 3.71).

[DDSDMD]

McMaster University grad. I'll cut to the facts..

 

5yr undergrad Major- Biology Minor- Astrobiology

yearly avgs (2.5, 2.7, 3.2, 3.6, 3.8)

 

2yr Masters Medical Sciences (Thesis - only 1 class per year)

yearly avgs (4.0, 4.0)

 

DAT (canadian) Bio (19) Chem (21) Reading Comp (24) AA (21) Pat (18)

 

3000 hrs (a lot!) shadowing including work in Kenya and Tanzania

2 scientific publications (including a textbook chapter) working on a 3rd

 

JUST worried about my Undergrad GPA cumulative it's only like 3.2 (the first few years hit me HARD! )

 

please be honest! I know my slow start hurts a lot but I have tons

of experience and made up for that in my later years and masters... I just

hope that's enough to cover the blackspot on my application.. ughh

 

I am sorry to burst your bubble but your chances of acceptance to U of T, UWO, McGill, and Dalhousie dental schools are virtually zero. You might have a shot at UBC depending on how competitive your marks are in terms of numerical average (ie. percentage) but even then it will be an uphill battle with no guarantees.

 

If you are, however, adamant on keeping dentistry as your career pursuit then the best advice I can give you at this point is to enrol yourself into a 2nd undergraduate program where you will be able to shine and get the highest marks possible, likely in the 3.9+ / 90+ range. If you can achieve the aforementioned stats, it is equivalent to getting admission tickets to the interviews, where again, you will need to shine.

 

Good luck.

[Mattybear89]

it really is annoying since everything is fine minus the first 2yrs...

such a blow to an otherwise good application I think.

 

I DO however have "special circumstances" or at least the option

to add a reason behind those marks on some apps.. hopefully that will get

seen and they will focus on the later strong half of my academic career..?

 

I'm thinking Western will be my strongest as they do top 2 years (I'm mid 80s) and they only look at the RC on the DAT which i'm 98% in my year.. so with all my other stuff I hope that's good for them.

 

gotta keep positive i guess. apparently there's always a career as a

scientist for me... or so my boss says that.

[eventualDDS]

I think you have a decent shot at getting into American schools. They tend to look more at the whole picture (not just GPA and DAT).

[determinat0r]

I'd say write the American DAT as well and aim for high averages. With your background, a solid DAT score, and early submission, you'd be guaranteed a few interviews. In the meantime, taking an extra year at a university to boost your GPA isn't a bad idea as well.

[book gorilla]

I agree that the American schools are your best option rather than spending the time and money doing a whole other undergraduate degree. Canadian marks hold up well in ADSAS system, there are many non-state schools where you will be given equal consideration to any American applicant, and all of your extra curriculars and Masters will help you shine and frankly stand a really good chance. Get the ADSAS book of all American dental schools and do a bit of homework as to which ones will accept the Canadian DAT - you don't even need to rewrite American DAT then.

[Mattybear89]

Basically got rejected hard from West Virginia and U Conn

but NYU seemed to like me so yeah that's where I'll be next september

maybe !!!

 

**Still no word from the Canadian Schools so there's pressure

to find out before the offer from NYU goes out.

 

Thanks everyone !

[Molar]

Ouch. By the time you graduate you'll be half a million dollars in debt. Any thoughts on how you are going to pay it off? Any thoughts on how you are even going to secure funding? Do you come from a rich family?

[Mattybear89]

slightly older student (24) have had a successful time as a scientist at the hospital and my dad is fronting the tuition (temporary loan)

 

the cost is no important to me - the education is

 

thanks for the concern !

[pinky25]

And frankly in the scheme of things while an extra 100,000 is seemingly unbearable thought right now looking at it from a "poor student" perspective, that money will be more than returned if the objective of a dental profession is achieved by going to the U.S rather than thwarted by ridiculously high bars now set by most Canadian schools. In talking to US admissions officers, they are aghast at what our cutoffs etc are here.Well worth the $ investment if needed to achieve the objective!!

[Molar]

I take issue with the idea that the ends justify the means with respect to tuition cost. This is perhaps the biggest financial decision you will ever make and the repercussions of this choice will be felt life-long. Mattibear is fortunate enough to have someone front him the money in a loan (I assume interest free, open ended). What if you don't have family that can just drop half a million? You graduate with that much in debt. I'll crunch the numbers for you.

 

Let's say you are able to find a job in a mid-sized city. Let's say optimistically you are able to gross $120K (realistic for 5 years from now considering the increasing dentist over saturation).

 

From the $120K you first subtract $10K for work related expenses. Things like licensing, insurances, continuing education, memberships and equipment.

 

On the remaining $110K you pay taxes and are left with about $78K. Then you have to pay your loan. Assuming an average interest rate of 4.5% that'll be $40K per year leaving you with $38K.

 

Then you need to pay about $4000 per year for life and disability insurance. This is very important considering the debt you're carrying and the fact that your cosigner will be on the hook if you get sick or die.

 

So after working a full year and paying only your taxes, loans and work expenses you are left in the mid-thirty-thousand dollar range. You'll never be able to change careers or take time off or slow down because the debt payments won't stop. You can't declare bankruptcy because your cosigners (parents) will be on the hook.

 

This puts you at a below average income - as a dentist! Owning a home will be very difficult. If you do own a car it is more likely to be a Corolla than a Jaguar. Retirement will be a pipe-dream (dentists don't get pensions).

 

It's a terrible situation in my opinion and I think it is something that should be thought over very thoroughly before you sign on the dotted line.

[mrewmrew]

I take issue with the idea that the ends justify the means with respect to tuition cost. This is perhaps the biggest financial decision you will ever make and the repercussions of this choice will be felt life-long. Mattibear is fortunate enough to have someone front him the money in a loan (I assume interest free, open ended). What if you don't have family that can just drop half a million? You graduate with that much in debt. I'll crunch the numbers for you.

 

Let's say you are able to find a job in a mid-sized city. Let's say optimistically you are able to gross $120K (realistic for 5 years from now considering the increasing dentist over saturation).

 

From the $120K you first subtract $10K for work related expenses. Things like licensing, insurances, continuing education, memberships and equipment.

 

On the remaining $110K you pay taxes and are left with about $78K. Then you have to pay your loan. Assuming an average interest rate of 4.5% that'll be $40K per year leaving you with $38K.

 

Then you need to pay about $4000 per year for life and disability insurance. This is very important considering the debt you're carrying and the fact that your cosigner will be on the hook if you get sick or die.

 

So after working a full year and paying only your taxes, loans and work expenses you are left in the mid-thirty-thousand dollar range. You'll never be able to change careers or take time off or slow down because the debt payments won't stop. You can't declare bankruptcy because your cosigners (parents) will be on the hook.

 

This puts you at a below average income - as a dentist! Owning a home will be very difficult. If you do own a car it is more likely to be a Corolla than a Jaguar. Retirement will be a pipe-dream (dentists don't get pensions).

 

It's a terrible situation in my opinion and I think it is something that should be thought over very thoroughly before you sign on the dotted line.

 

Agree with everything except how you somehow cut a 120k income down to 30k LOL (you literally just equivocated a dentist's income to that of a waiter). I think the flow of information stopped being clear when you said you have to pay 40k a year in loans. I don't think people normally pay that much, but if you did, you'd be done paying in 3 years (assuming you went to a Canadian school). Overall good points to consider though.

[Molar]

Agree with everything except how you somehow cut a 120k income down to 30k LOL (you literally just equivocated a dentist's income to that of a waiter). I think the flow of information stopped being clear when you said you have to pay 40k a year in loans. I don't think people normally pay that much, but if you did, you'd be done paying in 3 years (assuming you went to a Canadian school). Overall good points to consider though.

 

I was talking about going to NYU or a similar expensive school. NYU lists yearly expenses as $110,000 per year. Taking into account interest and tuition increases, it is very realistic to be $450,000 in debt when you graduate.

 

Just plugging that number into a loan calculator, and assuming an average variable rate of 5.5% over 20 years (US students pay 6.8%+ fixed!) I came up with $37,200. That the amount you'll pay per year for 20 years! It's not something you'll pay off in a few years.

 

By the way, what will that much loan payment cost you towards your retirement? Using an investment calculator, assuming average investment growth of 6.5% - you could have had $1,567,000 to retire on after only 20 years.

 

And that's the true cost of NYU.

[Mattybear89]

All very solid points!

 

You just have to aim high and hopefully be in that bracket of dentists that

clears more then 120. I know a ton of dentists in my hometown that average

double that (mind you the practice is very successful)

 

Saying that I agree, NYU CAN be a gamble to someone who is not financially well of, given my situation (which I am eternally grateful for)

I see this as my chance to grab my dream job, so I'm going for it.

 

This is also an arguing point which suggests that person may want to be a

dentist for more than just the money. I think more dentists should be able to clear this within a 10year span. That being said, 10yrs as a "poor" dentist cannot be fun, I would imagine.

[mrewmrew]

All very solid points!

 

You just have to aim high and hopefully be in that bracket of dentists that

clears more then 120. I know a ton of dentists in my hometown that average

double that (mind you the practice is very successful)

 

Saying that I agree, NYU CAN be a gamble to someone who is not financially well of, given my situation (which I am eternally grateful for)

I see this as my chance to grab my dream job, so I'm going for it.

 

This is also an arguing point which suggests that person may want to be a

dentist for more than just the money. I think more dentists should be able to clear this within a 10year span. That being said, 10yrs as a "poor" dentist cannot be fun, I would imagine.

 

Yea an admission representative from Case Western dental came to my school for a presentation and said their graduates take around 8 years to pay off their education debts (undergrad in the states cost a lot more than canada). But yea 8-10 years is pretty long haha.

[Anfield]

All very solid points!

 

You just have to aim high and hopefully be in that bracket of dentists that

clears more then 120. I know a ton of dentists in my hometown that average

double that (mind you the practice is very successful)

 

Saying that I agree, NYU CAN be a gamble to someone who is not financially well of, given my situation (which I am eternally grateful for)

I see this as my chance to grab my dream job, so I'm going for it.

 

This is also an arguing point which suggests that person may want to be a

dentist for more than just the money. I think more dentists should be able to clear this within a 10year span. That being said, 10yrs as a "poor" dentist cannot be fun, I would imagine.

 

CAN be a gamble for those who are not financially well? It's not a matter of if, it is absolutely a gamble!

 

I wish my parents had 500k to blow on my education, or anywhere near that.

[donnadee]

All very solid points!

 

You just have to aim high and hopefully be in that bracket of dentists that

clears more then 120. I know a ton of dentists in my hometown that average

double that (mind you the practice is very successful)

 

Saying that I agree, NYU CAN be a gamble to someone who is not financially well of, given my situation (which I am eternally grateful for)

I see this as my chance to grab my dream job, so I'm going for it.

 

This is also an arguing point which suggests that person may want to be a

dentist for more than just the money. I think more dentists should be able to clear this within a 10year span. That being said, 10yrs as a "poor" dentist cannot be fun, I would imagine.

 

i hate to come in and burst anyone's dreams here but this reply maybe too overly optimistic. anyone going in with a 400-500K loan including rent and what not should know that an average dentist doesnt make double that of 120K...moreover, for someone interested in eventually running their own practice..they should realize that practice prices have been going up by quite a lot due to high demand in the market by corporate dental chains and the average individual dentist is being outbid by the competition...overvalued practices in combination with real incomes going down for dentists is not a very optimistic outlook for the profession..some will obviously always make more than average but to start off in the profession with such a high debt does not put dentists in a good financial situation..before making such a big decision, i would talk to a bank or someone who knows the dental marketplace to see how long itd take you to payoff your student loan+practice loan..if it'd take 20-30 yrs, you should realistically ask yourself about wanting the career vs a family,house and life

[AlexMH]

CAN be a gamble for those who are not financially well? It's not a matter of if, it is absolutely a gamble!

 

I wish my parents had 500k to blow on my education, or anywhere near that.

 

It is a huge gamble. With the oversaturation of the dental market in nearly every developed nation, it will just get more and more difficult to bring home the big $, even as a top earner. Just 5 years ago, my mother was grossing an unbelievable number... and now, with chain practices popping up everywhere and more people people in the business, the competition (even for someone seasoned) is cut throat.

 

I don't know what it's like if you were to stay in the US, probably similar. Moving to the prairies or a smaller town would also be an option, I guess, but only viable if you're planning to stay there long term (because let's face it, you will in your late 20s/early 30s, and it's going to take you 10+ years, even at a high salary, to pay things off... you're going to have to start a family and probably stay put.) Do you want to start a family in a place like that? Or even live in a place like that? A lot of people - including me - wouldn't.

 

There are a lot of factors to think about. Making money in dentistry is business before anything. Starting out thinking that all it takes is "aiming high and doubling the average" is very risky. A lot of businesses fail. If you don't have what it takes to run a business or you aren't backed by someone who has what it takes, it is likely you'll be hitting 120k if you're lucky. There is a good chance, depending on where you plan on living, that you won't even hit that.