aaronjw Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Words of wisdom. Of course it is still a lot of money but in terms of being an MD it is quite low. 1/5th of what a lot of specialities make. So a lot of physicians are taking home $650K? How does med school let in so many with psychiatric disorders? Delusions high here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 If you want to earn less than your medical colleagues and only slightly more/ less than your college friends who finished school years before you, go ahead - you'll still live comfortably. If you wanted to live comfortably you didn't have to do all these years of medical training. But for the purposes of this thread, OP is quantifying income as a deciding factor for choosing a specialty, and there's nothing wrong with that. How many of your college friends are making 130K TAKE-HOME? Because I know NONE of mine are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 So a lot of physicians are taking home $650K? How does med school let in so many with psychiatric disorders? Delusions high here. Yes, there are definitely specialists like neuro/thoracic/cardiac surgeons making in that range. I know that some diagnostic radiologists are making upwards of 500k+. Regardless, there most certainly is a large playing ground for salary caps in medicine (which is all I was getting at). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savac Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yes, there are definitely specialists like neuro/thoracic/cardiac surgeons making in that range. I know that some diagnostic radiologists are making upwards of 500k+. Regardless, there most certainly is a large playing ground for salary caps in medicine (which is all I was getting at). Gross billings, or net income? I think that's what Aaron is getting at. I'm sure some of them are making that much (net) income, but I don't believe it's the standard in any specialty in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 So a lot of physicians are taking home $650K? How does med school let in so many with psychiatric disorders? Delusions high here. yeah....that would be extremely high to say the least And again that 130 is post tax so the conversion makes even less sense. Having a after tax home after tax pay that is over twice the median household pre tax income in Canada is extremely good. Often not talked about of course on this board most doctors do have spouses that potentially earn income as well. The overall household income for doctor families is quite high as a result. We can slice it up anyway you want but doctors are in the 1% of income earns as a rule in Canada. You have to work very, very hard to get there but when you do it is quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dongzhuo Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think the average numbers are highly misleading in family medicine. The field is so diverse that averages make no sense. Also I think it self selects for people who are less ambitious and less money oriented, as a generalization. No one or nothing is stopping you from doing 100% walk in (<5 min per patient), doing cosmetics( laser and botox and fillers), charging money for forms. If money is what you want and desire, you can definitely find it in family medicine. If you're taking homw 130k, its because you are ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dongzhuo Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Also I find it unreasonable that a physician takes home only slightly more than other professions. Most of the people I know in medicine have been cream de la cream for decades since early years. Top of high school, awards up the wazoo, hours spent doing homework, research and volunteering. We deserve much more than the mediocre dude back in high school who asked you questions back in chemistry class who may be making 100k plus in banking or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renoir Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Lol at being underpaid. Sounds like someone who has no clue what being underpaid ACTUALLY is. Most of you wouldn't be able to make what a physician does, even a lowly underpaid one, if your goal wasn't to be one. No, the thing is that $130K is not much take home where I'm from (Alberta). Someone Who Isn't Me takes home that much per year with 2 years of tech school and a couple of years of apprenticeship training or ticket upgrading. Granted, not everyone has those opportunities, but there are much more reasonable ways to make a high income. If that's what people are after, they should get a 3rd class steam ticket (Power Engineering). Of course you are correct that $130K is nothing to sneeze at. It's great money, but industry inflation has made it a more normative income amongst Canadians. Far from delusion, I think this point needs to be recognized (as many have done on this thread) and driven home: MD is not a panacea for lifestyle and income. You need to do it for more than just those motivating factors. That's the case for me. I now have years of lost opportunity cost and school debt which may total more than half a million so far. Is it worth it? Yes. I would go crazy having to be stuck in an industry I hate. I think more reasonable people than myself would be able to put a cost on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between gross and net income, and people who don't understand the difference between individual and family income... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, there are definitely specialists like neuro/thoracic/cardiac surgeons making in that range. I know that some diagnostic radiologists are making upwards of 500k+. Regardless, there most certainly is a large playing ground for salary caps in medicine (which is all I was getting at). So what are those diagnostic radiologists gross billings like? Nearly a million? I'm not quite sure you understand what take home pay is. We're talking about after expenses and after paying income taxes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 No, the thing is that $130K is not much take home where I'm from (Alberta). Someone Who Isn't Me takes home that much per year with 2 years of tech school and a couple of years of apprenticeship training or ticket upgrading. Granted, not everyone has those opportunities, but there are much more reasonable ways to make a high income. If that's what people are after, they should get a 3rd class steam ticket (Power Engineering). Of course you are correct that $130K is nothing to sneeze at. It's great money, but industry inflation has made it a more normative income amongst Canadians. Far from delusion, I think this point needs to be recognized (as many have done on this thread) and driven home: MD is not a panacea for lifestyle and income. You need to do it for more than just those motivating factors. That's the case for me. I now have years of lost opportunity cost and school debt which may total more than half a million so far. Is it worth it? Yes. I would go crazy having to be stuck in an industry I hate. I think more reasonable people than myself would be able to put a cost on that. Those tech friends are making that AFTER taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renoir Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between gross and net income, and people who don't understand the difference between individual and family income... Yep, true enough. But to be fair, many are still focused on the 'singles' lifestyle and probably can't think themselves into that headspace since it's so far away. As for take-home - it's amazing how much of the general public think every doc out there is making a killing all the while ignoring overhead, tax, and looking at hours worked. It's no wonder people resent spending tax dollars on the healthcare industry with an understanding like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renoir Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Those tech friends are making that AFTER taxes? Yep. Power engineers can do that with pretty minimal overtime from a 40 hour week. Techs are not quite as high for take home unless they live somewhere like Cold Lake or Fort Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th time the charm Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Will have average/ gross billings much less than more procedural based practices. Time based care like that in psychiatry will make even less despite the same or more number of post grad training years. Most full time psychiatrists (community practice based) gross income doesn't even close to what a family doctor's gross income is, about a third less, with less years of training. It's no wonder not a lot of med students select psychiatry as a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yep. Power engineers can do that with pretty minimal overtime from a 40 hour week. Techs are not quite as high for take home unless they live somewhere like Cold Lake or Fort Mac. Love how you cherry pick an outlier to support your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Love how you cherry pick an outlier to support your position. there is a reason they get paid so much - no one really wants to be there. As soon as that changes then the income will fall. Of course market ****s can also wipe out huge chunks of those industries - and has before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Will have average/ gross billings much less than more procedural based practices. Time based care like that in psychiatry will make even less despite the same or more number of post grad training years. Most full time psychiatrists (community practice based) gross income doesn't even close to what a family doctor's gross income is, about a third less, with less years of training. It's no wonder not a lot of med students select psychiatry as a career. Rads billing fees for clinics often include technical fees - they have to buy and maintain their machines and pay stuff to run them. There is of course a lot of overhead associated with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 So what are those diagnostic radiologists gross billings like? Nearly a million? I'm not quite sure you understand what take home pay is. We're talking about after expenses and after paying income taxes.... Oh is that what you're talking about? ............... let me add some more periods ya ignorant prick? ............... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between gross and net income, and people who don't understand the difference between individual and family income... That............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yep. Power engineers can do that with pretty minimal overtime from a 40 hour week. Techs are not quite as high for take home unless they live somewhere like Cold Lake or Fort Mac. Alright. Yeah, I can see engineers making that. And yes, techs probably won't get that in places where it's practical to live/have a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Oh is that what you're talking about? ............... let me add some more periods ya ignorant prick? ............... ? Well, what are their gross billings? Could you please answer that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renoir Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Love how you cherry pick an outlier to support your position. Well, medicine is an outlier itself if your want to discuss salaries for everyone in Canada. Having looked at incomes at least in my province, my examples are not outliers. Outlier would be a statistically significant aberration from a set mean and sigma level. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. I think it's well established that there are far better ways of making money with less investment than pursuing the path we are currently pursuing. Am I missing something in your argument here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renoir Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Alright. Yeah, I can see engineers making that. And yes, techs probably won't get that in places where it's practical to live/have a family. Oh yeah, engineers for sure :) But power engineering is a bit of a misnomer. It's a two-year tech certificate with some basic certification exams and on-the-job training... Pretty easy and appealing route if you like physics! Basically, they operate industrial plants and stuff like that, so it can be a cushy job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well, what are their gross billings? Could you please answer that? Oh all of a sudden you mannered up? You a good boy now, polite n ****. Your interpersonal skills and attitude suck, buddy. Hope it is just an online persona because if it is not..you should not be pursuing any medical subspecialty that involves patient contact. A rad can make anywhere above 600 gross before expenses like malpractice insurance, conference leave, PACS.. 500ish pre-tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Oh all of a sudden you mannered up? You a good boy now, polite n ****. Your interpersonal skills and attitude suck, buddy. Hope it is just an online persona because if it is not..you should not be pursuing any medical subspecialty that involves patient contact. A rad can make anywhere above 600 gross before expenses like malpractice insurance, conference leave, PACS.. 500ish pre-tax. So well below that 5x $130K take home figure then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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