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University of Wollongong Student Here - Ask Me Anything!


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Hey folks! I'm a Canadian student studying at the University of Wollongong's Graduate School of Medicine. I'm currently in my second year at the GSM and am heading into my end-of-phase exams in June. I know I used these types of forums a lot when I was figuring out where I wanted to go so I figured I'd return the favour. Ask me anything you've ever wanted to know about studying medicine in Australia and I'll do my best to answer.

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Why did you go there vs a Canadian school? What's your plan for coming back?

 

Hey beared frog,

 

Good questions. It think the first question is the one I get most often. I'm a little bit of a non-traditional student. I already had two degrees under my belt before coming to Oz. My GPA wasn't stellar despite graduating with two honours degrees and I found myself sitting just under the interview bar. So, I figured I could either spend the next couple years wasting time with something else in an effort to increase my GPA or I could get on with my life and head elsewhere. I did a lot of research into the schools in other countries (looking mostly at the UK and Australia) and I found UOW's program the most appealing. Small class sizes, rural focused training, excellent faculty, research oppotunities, great facilities, and the list goes on :) I had always wanted to go abroad for some of my education and there was no time like the present.

 

What's your plan for coming back to Canada is coincidentally the second most common question :) Currently, my plan is to go into Family Medicine, so competition isn't quite as fierce as say General Surgery. On top of that I want to practice rurally so I don't mind taking a return of sevice agreement. Finally, I have some in-roads with a few doctors and a program director in my home province. While nothing is ever assured, I've been given hints that securing a residency won't be too much trouble for me.

 

Now, that being said, that's not the case for everyone. What I want to do is really in demand from a governmental/policy prespective so there are programs in place to aid in coming back over. For instance, check out SaskDocs.ca (if you'd be interested in Saskatchewan, anyhow) or this article has a lot of good information based on province. If you want to do something else, you might not have quite as much support but it's definitely still do-able.

 

Where you go to school is also important to factor in. If you look at the CaRMS statistics, IMGs from Australia match more often than IMGs from any other area. In the 2013 match, IMGs from Australia matched at a rate of 64% whereas those from North America (excl. US grads) only matched at a rate of 20%, Europe 35%, Africa 14%, etc. While no school can guaruntee anything, UOW has a very high match rate for Canadians matching back into Canadian residencies. When I started, I believe it was acutally 100% and it may still be; high 90s in any case. Some of that is likely attributable to the fact that we have a lot of early clinical exposure and lots of opportunites to practice our clincal skills. This reflects well in electives/observerships and leads to good letters of reference from good sources.

 

Anyhow, I hope that helps :) Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

Cheers,

 

- RMR

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No worries. Sorry to hear about your friend. That's unfortunate. I hope they're able to secure something in the next go around. What are they doing in the mean time?

That North America figure would be Mexico, US grads are not counted as IMG and get same status as Canadian graduates on the CaRMS.

 

Ahh, that's right. I knew it sounded odd when I was writing it. I'll strike that out so I don't confuse anyone :P

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If you do your residency in australia, i thought you can't come back?

 

I've read that Ireland is the best choice of the IMGs to come back to Canada, the match stats have been pretty good and they don't take many mediocre applicants like some of the other international schools..

 

Trying for Canada a few times first!

 

2nd degree is going 3.9 for the first year..

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If you do your residency in australia, i thought you can't come back?

 

I've read that Ireland is the best choice of the IMGs to come back to Canada, the match stats have been pretty good and they don't take many mediocre applicants like some of the other international schools..

 

Trying for Canada a few times first!

 

2nd degree is going 3.9 for the first year..

 

I believe you can. The CFPC site says this about it. Good luck with your applications!

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This changes everything!!!!

 

If you have dual citizenship, and do your residency there for Family Med, you could come back here!!

 

 

I guess its not the same for specialties, they are more strict, but for Family Medicine, you could pull that off way easier!

 

I will seriously have to consider UK then.. I have UK citizenship. I will retry for Canada first though. But I think some schools I can get relatively cheap tuition

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Why did no one ever say this before?

 

I was only ever aware if you did ACGME training in the US, you could come back.

 

But if I can go to UK (or other people who have irish or australian citizenship and are higher up on the order list for priority for intern training there) I could do that route too.

 

I always thought that if I did my training in FM there, I would have to stay there as a back up in case I couldn't get into a Canadian/US residency.

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Well, everything i have read, if you dont have citizenship, you are on the very bottom of the list - and it would be quite hard to get a residency. At least for ireland. I don't know about Australia.

 

This breakthrough information came at the wrong time, I have finals I should be acing and not looking up medical programs... but really, thanks! I never came across this link.

 

I always knew I could do residency in the UK no problem due to my citizenship, but never thought I could come back to Canada, hence my hesitation.

 

It's interesting it is only Ireland, Australia and UK, is it because of commonwealth? I guess the rest of EU for sure can't come back after doing an EU residency, so they have to purely rely on getting into a US residency.

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The problem with going to these schools in Ireland/UK/Australia is that while the match rate might be OK for Canada (60%), I don't know how easy it is for the remaining 40% to match in the country where they trained or in the US, so a lot of the remaining 40% may go unmatched and thus their medical degree is useless.

 

What is the overall match rate for your school?

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The problem with going to these schools in Ireland/UK/Australia is that while the match rate might be OK for Canada (60%), I don't know how easy it is for the remaining 40% to match in the country where they trained or in the US, so a lot of the remaining 40% may go unmatched and thus their medical degree is useless.

 

What is the overall match rate for your school?

 

Yea, that's a good point Leviathan. I apologise but I can't really comment on the match rate to other countries. I don't have any experience with the systems outside of Canada. Perhaps someone else could comment on that point?

 

With regard to matching in Australia as an international, you are at a disadvantage. You match behind those graduates who are citizens or permanent residents. Also, there is an "internship crisis" affecting Australia. There are simply not enough internship positions to accommodate the number of students matriculating from all of the medical schools. It's difficult to say how this will change in the future. By the time I graduate in 2016, it may be better or it may be worse. You can find more information about the internship crisis here. So, in short you can't rely on getting an internship in Australia but it is possible.

 

In the case of Canada, one must temper that with the fact that those statistics, for instance those of Oceania/Pacific Islands, include some countries with much lower match rates (anecdotally at least). So, one could assume that the match rate for Australia is actually higher than it would seem.

 

With regard to the match in Canada in the future I can only relay anecdotal evidence and conjecture. With that in mind, I would suggest that there are a few things one can do to maximise their chances for matching back in their home country. These are what I feel are useful for Canada but I would imagine that they would be useful elsewhere as well. First, you should try to maximise your experience with your home healthcare system. So, if you're home for the holidays, try and get an observership or, for those in later years, an elective rotation. This not only shows a commitment to coming home but also allows you to network with local doctors and, hopefully, program directors; sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know. Second, try and do any/all of this experience where you want to match to (i.e. get the home court advantage). Third, if you have the opportunity, do some research and get it published. While this isn't a strict requirement, it looks really good on your CV when you're applying to residency positions. Fourth, get as much clinical experience as possible. When you're doing your electives/observerships, the more you can impress your preceptors, the better your letters of reference will be. I'm certain there are other things you can do but those are just a few off the top of my head. If anyone else has any suggestions for increasing your likelihood to match back to your home country, please replay and share!

 

Even if you don't match your first year out of medical school, you do have the opportunity to match in subsequent years. However, these students match at a lower rate than those fresh out of medical school. In the worst-case scenario, where you didn't ever match, you could still utilise your degree to enter into a research or teaching position where you aren't actually practicing. While this would be far from the ideal situation, there is that option if need be.

 

As for the match rates for my school, I can only indicate what I have seen in my person experience. In my school's case, when I began in 2013, all of the Canadian students who applied back home had matched back to Canada. I'm not certain regarding last year's cohort but LyndalPN (on this forum) would be able to answer that question more accurately. She's one of our international representatives, a professor at the GSM, and a lovely lady :) She would be more than willing to answer any questions you have.

 

That ended up being a little long-winded but I hope that helps! If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!

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As for the UK. There is a big misconception about training. ANY citizen who graduates from a UK medical school can do their Residency training and stay in the UK no problem.

 

You don't have to be UK or EU citizen. There is a pathway clearly outlined by the NHS website.

 

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-who-you-are/international-healthcare-professionals/immigration-application-process-the-points-based-system/education-and-training-routes-%28tier-1-to-5%29/

 

During medical school you are on a Tier 4 Student Visa. When you graduate you get a renewal of your Tier 4 Student Visa for the Foundation Program which is similar to an internship that lasts 2 years. After that you apply for Specialty Training, you are moved onto a Tier 2 General Visa.

 

Also, I know that the 2010 report said Europe had a 35% match rate, but from the statistics in Ireland the match rate has been closer to 70%. Obviously Europe will include those going to Poland, Italy and other Eastern European countries as well as immigrants from Europe and they won't have as much success as CSAs from Ireland and the UK will. I'm keenly waiting for the 2014 survey to come out later this year or next year.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Hey folks! I'm a Canadian student studying at the University of Wollongong's Graduate School of Medicine. I'm currently in my second year at the GSM and am heading into my end-of-phase exams in June. I know I used these types of forums a lot when I was figuring out where I wanted to go so I figured I'd return the favour. Ask me anything you've ever wanted to know about studying medicine in Australia and I'll do my best to answer.

 

 

Hi RMR, I have a couple questions I'm hoping you could guide me on. :)

 

Just a bit of background....

To date, I've sent several applications to various Australian and Irish medical schools. I've been offered admission to the University College Dublin (UCD), and have 3 other interviews lined up. As for the other schools, my application is still under review, or the review process hasn't begun yet. (But I imagine/assume/hope I'll receive a few more interview offers as the summer progresses.)

 

If I receive multiple offers of admission, which obviously hasn't happened in Canada ;) , I'm trying to come up with a plan on how to choose the school that will be best for me and my future: I think you mentioned that you chose the University of Wollongong because of their rural medicine focus. Were there any other reasons? (Did you apply to other schools in Australia or Ireland?)

 

Upon accepting your offer of admission to Wollongong, did you have to place (a large sum of) money in an escrow account? For me to study overseas, financing will come from a combination of personal savings, government loan, and professional line of credit. I've read rumors on this forum that upwards of $300k needs to be placed in an escrow account before starting school - which doesn't exactly make sense to me. I can understand a semester or two worth of tuition, but not $300k.

 

Thank you very much for your time RMR!

Cheers.

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Hey karate_kid,

 

I think you mentioned that you chose the University of Wollongong because of their rural medicine focus. Were there any other reasons? (Did you apply to other schools in Australia or Ireland?)

 

The rural focus was the main reason but there were some others that came into play. It certainly doesn't hurt that it's one of the less expensive schools to go to. Also, I had heard favourable reviews from other Canadians regarding the school. Lastly, at the time of my application, all Canadian students applying to come home, recieved residency positions (and not only in Family Medicine). It was these reasons coupled with the my experience with the staff during my interview that swayed me.

 

No, I only applied to the University of Wollongong's program. I didn't really have any interest in going half-way around the world unless I was in the program I really wanted to be in.

 

Upon accepting your offer of admission to Wollongong, did you have to place (a large sum of) money in an escrow account?

 

I've heard that you have to do this at some schools but, no, UOW does not require you to place any money in escrow after accepting your offer. The way it works here is that part of accepting your offer is paying for your first semester's tuition up front. So for the 2015 cohort, that will mean paying $26500 AUD when you accept your offer. After that, you just pay your semester fees when they come due (March and August).

 

I hope that answers your questions adequately :)

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So $212,000 is the tuition for the full program, plus flights back/forth to Australia, living expenses there, exam fees, application fees etc is probably more like $300-350,000. Is there any way one can attend this school if their parents aren't wealthy? The max line of credit you can get from the bank is $200,000.

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So $212,000 is the tuition for the full program, plus flights back/forth to Australia, living expenses there, exam fees, application fees etc is probably more like $300-350,000. Is there any way one can attend this school if their parents aren't wealthy? The max line of credit you can get from the bank is $200,000.

 

Hi leviathan,

 

It's true, it is a very expensive endeavour. However, you don't necessarily require wealthy benefactors. Everyone's situation is unique so it's difficult to say exactly what will work for everyone but in my case, I have $250,000 in a line of credit (BMO), I get about $25,000 to $30,000 per year via government loans, I had some savings/proceeds from selling (mostly) all of our stuff, and my partner works part-time.

 

I have also heard of some people getting two lines of credit however this would likely require you to have two different co-signors or one well-off co-signor.

 

It's expensive but definitely do-able. You just have to make sure that you have the money in place before you start. Or at least be reasonably sure you know where it's coming from.

 

Oh, and one other thing about loans. Caveat: I don't work for a bank and I don't know this for certain so takes this with a grain of salt. I have heard that while the professional lines of credit state they only fund up to a certain maximum (e.g. $250K, $200K etc.) they may increase those limits based upon need. So, let's say you get 3 years into your degree and your LoC dries up. You can request the bank to extend that loan by another $50,000 or whatever (the amount would depend on their risk assessment). Again, I'm not certain about this but it would make sense on a logical level. If the bank invests $250K into your future profession, a particularily lucrative profession at that, it would be in their best interest to continue to foster that relationship presuming you've made all previous payments on time and whatnot and didn't just end up blowing through the initial amount in the first year or two.

 

Anyhow, I hope that answered your questions. Good luck with your application process!

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Interesting perspective, thanks. I'm not an applicant, I'm a resident in Canada who went the international route. The Australian, UK and Irish schools seemed a bit out of reach for me at that time I was applying to med school though, due to financial constraints.

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