What Are My Chances/Advice

[healthcarehopeful]

Hello! I'm considering applying abroad to medical school to Ireland, Australia, and the Caribbean. I have a 3.5-3.6 GPA and a miserable 26Q. Do I have a chance? And if I do, what schools should I apply to?

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!

[goodyearkl]

Hello! I'm considering applying abroad to medical school to Ireland, Australia, and the Caribbean. I have a 3.5-3.6 GPA and a miserable 26Q. Do I have a chance? And if I do, what schools should I apply to?

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

Oh, OP. Please don't. Re-write your MCAT and do a graduate degree. It will be ok. Don't put yourself in ridiculous amounts of debut to go to a sketchy beach school or a school in Ireland, which gives you a fancy 400k piece of paper at the end, but no real hope of practicing medicine.

 

What is your home province? If you up your stats you might have a decent chance at applying there.

[healthcarehopeful]

I'm from Ontario. I've applied to a Masters of OT and I'm considering rewriting...I just feel like I can only bump up my stats so much..

[advair250]

Oh, OP. Please don't. Re-write your MCAT and do a graduate degree. It will be ok. Don't put yourself in ridiculous amounts of debut to go to a sketchy beach school or a school in Ireland, which gives you a fancy 400k piece of paper at the end, but no real hope of practicing medicine.

 

What is your home province? If you up your stats you might have a decent chance at applying there.

 

I agree OP should just re-write the MCAT or go to OT school.

 

But Ireland isn't a terrible option compared to islands(which is bad for coming back to Canada). Irish schools are generally high quality, and their match statistics back to Canada have been very strong.

[goodyearkl]

I agree OP should just re-write the MCAT or go to OT school.

 

But Ireland isn't a terrible option compared to islands(which is bad for coming back to Canada). Irish schools are generally high quality, and their match statistics back to Canada have been very strong.

 

Did research on this because a friend got in. Match rates are less than 50%, usually family med, and stiff return of service contracts attached. It's a HUGE risk and you would be putting yourself in a lot of debut. I do agree though, Irish schools are good, just not for Canadians because we can't do residency over there...or here for that matter.

[goodyearkl]

I'm from Ontario. I've applied to a Masters of OT and I'm considering rewriting...I just feel like I can only bump up my stats so much..

 

I think you can do it! :D Just force yourself to study hard and apply to MUN they are pretty indifferent about the MCAT. Avg accepted score is only around 28 but ranges from 22-34 on a typical year. They like ECs and life experience a lot.

[advair250]

Did research on this because a friend got in. Match rates are less than 50%, usually family med, and stiff return of service contracts attached. It's a HUGE risk and you would be putting yourself in a lot of debut. I do agree though, Irish schools are good, just not for Canadians because we can't do residency over there...or here for that matter.

 

Your research is different than mine, the statistics I have are approx 76% match rate for RCSI in 2013 (first and second round of Carms). There is also the US Match.

 

AGAIN, Canada is where you should try to get into first, but Ireland of the abroad options, for returning specifically to Canada for residency hasn't been too bad.

 

-----------------

 

RCSI Match Statistics 2013

• 20 Canadians matched in first round of CaRMs

– 16 Final Meds, 4 Prior year grad

– 35 applied

• 15 Final Med Canadians entered second round of CaRMs

– 6 matched

• 1 Neuro- Pediatrics, Ottawa University

• 1 Neuro- Pediatrics, UBC

• 1 Pediatrics, NOSM

• 1 Internal Medicine, University of Saskachewan

• 1 Psych, UBC

• 1 Psych, Ottawa

• 7 Canadians matched in US (3 did not apply to Canada)

• TOTAL= 29 Canadians matched to North America

 

Out of the 2013 grads

• 29/38= 76.3%, 9 unmatched Canadians

• % match to Canada in 1st round (16/35)=45.7%

• % match to Canada overall (22/35)= 62.9%

• Internal Medicine

– 2 x Western University

– McMaster University

– University of Toronto

– University of Manitoba

– University of Saskachewan (2nd round)

• Family Medicine

– University of Toronto

– McMaster University

– University of Manitoba

– 2 x Memorial

2 x University of Saskachewan

• Pediatrics

– Ottawa University

– NOSM

• Pediatric Neurology

– University of Toronto

– Ottawa University

– UBC

• Psych

– UBC

– Ottawa University

• Plastic Surgery

– Ottawa University

• General Surgery

– Ottawa University

 

Previous Grads who Matched to CaRMS

• Family Medicine

– Dalhousie University

• Orthopedic Surgery

– Western University

• Emergency Medicine

– University of Toronto

– Ottawa University

– NOTE: not included in RCSI matched applicant total due to previous year graduation

 

RCSI Canadians Match to ERAS 2013

• Orthopedic Surgery

– Temple University

• General Surgery

– Southern Illinois University

• Emergency Medicine

– Orlando

• Pediatrics

– University of Hawaii

– Tufts University

• Internal Medicine

– Albert Einstein/Montefiore

– University of Conneticut

 

Irish Match Statistics 2013

• Total Applied = 112 Canadians

– 104 applied to CaRMS

– 8 did not apply to CaRMS, only to ERAs

• Total Matched in Canada

– First Round – 43 matches

– 2nd Round – 19 matches

– Overall Total – 62 (/104) in Canada

• Total Matched in the US

– 23 matches

• Overall Total

84 matches (/112)  75.0% match rate to NA

 

By School

• RCSI

– 76.3% match rate

• Trinity

– 92.3% match rate

• UCD

– 62.5% match rate

• UCC

– 73.3% match rate

• NUIG

– 100% match rate

• University of Limerick

– 75.0% match rate

 

Overall Irish List

• Family Medicine – 20 matches

• Internal Medicine – 18 matches

• Paediatrics – 10 matches

• Paediatric Neurology – 3 matches

• Neurology – 1 match

• Genetics – 1 match

• Psychology – 6 matches

• Pathology – 1 match

• Ob/Gyn – 2 matches

• Emergency Medicine – 3 matches

• Surgery

– General – 2 matches (1 Prelim)

– Orthopedic – 4 matches (3 Canada, 1 US)

– Plastics – 1 match

– Anaesthesia – 1 match (US)

[Edict]

Hello! I'm considering applying abroad to medical school to Ireland, Australia, and the Caribbean. I have a 3.5-3.6 GPA and a miserable 26Q. Do I have a chance? And if I do, what schools should I apply to?

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

With a 26Q you won't get Ireland, probably won't get Australia but you will get Caribbean.

 

However, you really should rewrite the MCAT. Depending on where you are from MUN is not really an option since they have IP preferences. If you are from Ontario or BC you can pretty much count yourself out with a 3.5-6 GPA and less than a 30 MCAT unless your verbal is high and Mac takes you although with acceptance rates of 5% its not likely.

 

Generally a 28+ is good enough for Australia and a 30+ for Ireland with your GPA.

 

Way too many Canadians are going abroad the number increases every year and the problem is you are seeing match stats from 5-6 years ago when the #s abroad weren't so many and the competition wasn't too bad.

 

As you see 112 Canadians participated in the match in Ireland in 2013. UL itself in its GEM program accepts 45 Canadians a year now. Add all the other med schools in Ireland, add the 5 year and 6 year programs, add the students in the UK, in the Caribbean, in Australia, in Israel, Poland, Italy, India and you start to get the picture. The number of Canadians in Ireland each year is around 300... Match rate will go down no matter how you spin it and even if gov decides to increase spots it will never be enough.

 

I seriously think Atlantic Bridge and Australia should do Canadians a favour and cap those spots.

[healthcarehopeful]

Thanks for the advice! I'm definitely going to rewrite the MCAT after all the new changes to it are in place. I've only written it one time and I feel like I wasn't fully prepared when I wrote it. I think I should be able to pull it up to at least a 30.

 

Side note: what determines a match on CaRMs? GPA? Experience? Interview?

[Edict]

Thanks for the advice! I'm definitely going to rewrite the MCAT after all the new changes to it are in place. I've only written it one time and I feel like I wasn't fully prepared when I wrote it. I think I should be able to pull it up to at least a 30.

 

Side note: what determines a match on CaRMs? GPA? Experience? Interview?

 

CaRMS is a fickle beast and because Canada is a small country there is more "random variation" than in the US. There really isn't much you can do to improve your chances of match until 3rd year though. Pre-clinical grades and observerships mean nothing for CaRMS.

 

For IMGs its mostly clinical experiences (Canada or US), references from those rotations, your scores on the MCCEE and NAC OSCE and possibly clinical rotation grades. Research can help as well but its not 1st priority and only do it if you are actually interested in it, if not it will show up on the interview and it won't help u.

[leviathan]

CaRMS is a fickle beast and because Canada is a small country there is more "random variation" than in the US. There really isn't much you can do to improve your chances of match until 3rd year though. Pre-clinical grades and observerships mean nothing for CaRMS.

 

For IMGs its mostly clinical experiences (Canada or US), references from those rotations, your scores on the MCCEE and NAC OSCE and possibly clinical rotation grades. Research can help as well but its not 1st priority and only do it if you are actually interested in it, if not it will show up on the interview and it won't help u.

 

I think all of the above are important for getting an interview, but at that point I think the interview becomes the most important part. A lot of it just comes down to whether they think you're a good fit in their program.

[mavrik13]

Thanks for the advice! I'm definitely going to rewrite the MCAT after all the new changes to it are in place. I've only written it one time and I feel like I wasn't fully prepared when I wrote it. I think I should be able to pull it up to at least a 30.

 

Side note: what determines a match on CaRMs? GPA? Experience? Interview?

 

The issue is not necessarily matching in CaRMS - it is getting interviews! The most important factor, once you're in the room, is the interview itself. Also - the spots that do exist for CSA's often come attached with a heavy return of service contract to work (somewhere that no one else wants to work) doing something that no one else wants to do.

 

Keep in mind that there are thousands of CSA's (Canadians studying abroad) in addition to foreign MD's looking to re-enter the match in addition to current residents trying to switch programs!

 

Combine this with the recent increases to the number of Canadian medical school spots (I think it is something like a 50% increase over the past 10 years), your best bet is to try and get into a medical school here. From what you've said, it doesn't even sound like you have given a good solid attempt at getting into a Canadian medical school.

 

Oh - and even matching to the states will become more and more difficult, as for the first time in recent memory, there are more US medical graduates than US residency spots... making that route much more difficult.

 

I know people who have moved provinces to get IP status, they have taken 5th, 6th or occasionally a second undergrad degree to bump up their GPA, they have rewritten the MCAT numerous times... these seem like far more logical options to me than doing a MD degree in Ireland/Australia/Caribbean and expecting to be able to come back.

 

Give Canadian medical school a more solid attempt by doing another year or two of undergrad (choose courses smartly - ones that you can get 90's in), rewriting the MCAT, and applying again (especially to schools that heavily weigh more recent GPA). Doing OT will have little/no impact on your medical school application, other than drag down your marks. Do it if you can see yourself being happy working as an OT - not as a gateway into medical school.

[Edict]

The issue is not necessarily matching in CaRMS - it is getting interviews! The most important factor, once you're in the room, is the interview itself. Also - the spots that do exist for CSA's often come attached with a heavy return of service contract to work (somewhere that no one else wants to work) doing something that no one else wants to do.

 

Keep in mind that there are thousands of CSA's (Canadians studying abroad) in addition to foreign MD's looking to re-enter the match in addition to current residents trying to switch programs!

 

Combine this with the recent increases to the number of Canadian medical school spots (I think it is something like a 50% increase over the past 10 years), your best bet is to try and get into a medical school here. From what you've said, it doesn't even sound like you have given a good solid attempt at getting into a Canadian medical school.

 

Oh - and even matching to the states will become more and more difficult, as for the first time in recent memory, there are more US medical graduates than US residency spots... making that route much more difficult.

 

I know people who have moved provinces to get IP status, they have taken 5th, 6th or occasionally a second undergrad degree to bump up their GPA, they have rewritten the MCAT numerous times... these seem like far more logical options to me than doing a MD degree in Ireland/Australia/Caribbean and expecting to be able to come back.

 

Give Canadian medical school a more solid attempt by doing another year or two of undergrad (choose courses smartly - ones that you can get 90's in), rewriting the MCAT, and applying again (especially to schools that heavily weigh more recent GPA). Doing OT will have little/no impact on your medical school application, other than drag down your marks. Do it if you can see yourself being happy working as an OT - not as a gateway into medical school.

 

Don't want to be mean but i'm hearing some well intentioned but oft repeated misconceptions being repeated over and over again.

 

The US is not going to have grads=residency spots anytime soon. This fact came from a study published by JAMA I believe. It said grads will = residency spots by 2015. However, it didn't anticipate an increase in residency spots in the study. Actually they have increased, and that is the biggest difference. Residency spots are up 2000 from 2012-2013 and another 500 from 2013-14.

 

The article was just published in order to get the government to increase spots which it did and as a result all is fine.

 

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2014-NRMP-Main-Residency-Match-Advance-Data-Tables-FINAL.pdf

 

Look at the match stats in 2014. Awfully close to the predicted doomsday of 2015 according to JAMA but its not looking that bad at all.

You can see that the number of US seniors applying actually went down this year, and the number of US DO Seniors went up only about 100. The number of spots went up by 500.

 

The match rate for non-US citizen IMG grads went up 2.5% to 49.5%.

[advair250]

"Oh - and even matching to the states will become more and more difficult, as for the first time in recent memory, there are more US medical graduates than US residency spots... making that route much more difficult."

 

 

This is completely wrong.

[leviathan]

Saba's match rate was 93% last year. This year it's not published yet but everyone I know in the match was successful. Apparently a record number of CaRMS matches too.

 

Not sure what to make of that doomsday scenario published in JAMA, or whether it still might become true or not in the future. Things are not looking as bad as they predicted though.

[advair250]

I also have a source at SABA who matched this year and said it was a good match year.

 

SABA has generally been pretty good, a lot of strong Canadians.