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Annual Specialty Competitiveness Stats


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are there good applicants who get rejected from interviews? should i be freaking out? is anyone else in this boat? how many interviews is "normal". is it normal to not get interviews at some schools? do people not get interviews but still match to the specialty at other sites? I've been hysterically crying all day and don't see how i will get through the next 2 weeks. i feel like my entire life is ruined and i will end up working at mcdonalds next year. objectively i realize im overblowing the situation but i just can't calm myself down and I'm kinda losing it and I'm scaring myself. please PM me or reply.

 

I was in lactic's 'solid' category and I went through the same thing as you minus the crying. 

 

Chances are you'll be alright!

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Not super competitive in the grand scheme of things, just not a guaranteed position. FM's usually a safe bet, but there's enough people interested in those locations to take that safety away. Anyone wanting to match to Toronto or Vancouver, even in FM, should have back-up locations they're pursuing (and ideally at least one not GTA or GTA-adjacent).

 

Smart advice! I didn't get invites for UofT and McGill family med, but to be fair, despite involvement and research and good clerkship and all the fluff, my grades were under the average of my class.

 

People said I was crazy to apply to 29 programs, but with 6 programs out already... I'm glad I listened to my fears.

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Smart advice! I didn't get invites for UofT and McGill family med, but to be fair, despite involvement and research and good clerkship and all the fluff, my grades were under the average of my class.

 

People said I was crazy to apply to 29 programs, but with 6 programs out already... I'm glad I listened to my fears.

 

Ahh, the dreaded grades - I don't envy you guys in Quebec schools that don't have the pass/fail system.

 

Applying broadly seems to be pretty necessary even in traditionally less-competitive specialties like FM. I'm leaning towards FM for next year and my short list is about 15 programs, none in what I would consider to be competitive locations, but I'm still questioning how much more to open up that list to additional sites. 

 

Best of luck with the match this year!

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Smart advice! I didn't get invites for UofT and McGill family med, but to be fair, despite involvement and research and good clerkship and all the fluff, my grades were under the average of my class.

 

People said I was crazy to apply to 29 programs, but with 6 programs out already... I'm glad I listened to my fears.

 

When you say "research", did you publish?

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Ahh, the dreaded grades - I don't envy you guys in Quebec schools that don't have the pass/fail system.

 

Applying broadly seems to be pretty necessary even in traditionally less-competitive specialties like FM. I'm leaning towards FM for next year and my short list is about 15 programs, none in what I would consider to be competitive locations, but I'm still questioning how much more to open up that list to additional sites. 

 

Best of luck with the match this year!

Thanks for your good thoughts ralk! Well given the circumstances it's never bad to apply broadly, especially if most of the programs you applied to belong to a small geographic area (ie Quebec + Ontario only). I think that most people get what they want when applying to family med, but applying OOP from Quebec is another ball game.

 

In medschool we have grades over here because most students didn't get undergrad education, so it's hard for programs to asses their academic proficiency. I know some English programs ask for undergrad transcript, right?

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Was it basic science or clinical research? Do you feel that you are disadvantaged applying from a French school?

 

It was a clinical research. You would always feel disadvantage applying from another system. For example, the fact that we can get admitted straight from cegep, without any undergraduate schooling, puts us at disadvantage when applying because we lack the extra CV padding that we could've done in undergrad. Yes, when I got into medschool at 19, I was ecstatic, but now that I compare myself to friends from English Canada that are applying to the same programs as me and who've had years of experience ahead, it's difficult not to feel inferior.

 

Also, the famous grading system... We get a GPA in medschool for exams and clerkship evaluations on 4.3. And it's also curved... It does help us when we're above average, but 50% of us won't be, and your rank in the class is stated in your MSPR. We also get less elective time before CaRMS, and if we do, it's when we didn't complete all our core, making it impossible to book more challenging specialty rotations.

 

And don't forget the language barrier... Unless you studied in English before, your academic English won't be as good and you won't be as at ease when using it in stressful situations.

 

That's what I can think of on top of my head right now. There's a couple of hoops to jump through just to be able to apply to English schools, but it's not impossible to do so. 

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Hey OP,

 

  I happen to go to one of the French medical school. I am very happy to enter med school at the age of 19 after cegep, less debt and I save 2 years.

  I am aware that my CV is less impressive than clerks who have completed an undergrad before, but I don't think that it's the major criteria. I think that programs look at what you have done as ECs during medical school, it shows how one could deal with the academic load in medicine while doing something they love. I don't think that program directors really care much if you were the class president during undergrad. 

  I agree that having A, B, C, D, Es make us more stressful, but it drives us to study more, and we are studying for our future patients. There is a reason why UdM always ranks 1st for LMCC exam! I don't think that Francophone schools disadvantage cegep medical students for residency at all :)

  Best of luck for CaRMS application! Sorry to stay off topic for this thread :P

It was a clinical research. You would always feel disadvantage applying from another system. For example, the fact that we can get admitted straight from cegep, without any undergraduate schooling, puts us at disadvantage when applying because we lack the extra CV padding that we could've done in undergrad. Yes, when I got into medschool at 19, I was ecstatic, but now that I compare myself to friends from English Canada that are applying to the same programs as me and who've had years of experience ahead, it's difficult not to feel inferior.

 

Also, the famous grading system... We get a GPA in medschool for exams and clerkship evaluations on 4.3. And it's also curved... It does help us when we're above average, but 50% of us won't be, and your rank in the class is stated in your MSPR. We also get less elective time before CaRMS, and if we do, it's when we didn't complete all our core, making it impossible to book more challenging specialty rotations.

And don't forget the language barrier... Unless you studied in English before, your academic English won't be as good and you won't be as at ease when using it in stressful situations.

That's what I can think of on top of my head right now. There's a couple of hoops to jump through just to be able to apply to English schools, but it's not impossible to do so. 

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Thanks for your good thoughts ralk! Well given the circumstances it's never bad to apply broadly, especially if most of the programs you applied to belong to a small geographic area (ie Quebec + Ontario only). I think that most people get what they want when applying to family med, but applying OOP from Quebec is another ball game.

 

In medschool we have grades over here because most students didn't get undergrad education, so it's hard for programs to asses their academic proficiency. I know some English programs ask for undergrad transcript, right?

 

Yeah, that's the challenge - how broad to be. I know with the programs I'm looking at (mostly southern Ontario but outside the GTA), matching in Ontario is very likely, but I'm trying to keep at least a few options open outside the province. I guess we'll see how well that works next year :P

 

A few programs ask for undergrad transcripts, mostly in Derm and Rads from what I remember, but the rest don't. As more than a few physicians have remarked to me, doing well on a test is a far cry from doing well in practice - our academic proficiency probably doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

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Hey OP,

 

   I did my cegep studies in English. I found the beginning of medical school to be difficult, especially the 1st semester with all the basic science courses. After the first semester, I quickly adapted to the French language. Most of my textbook references are in English, UptoDate, etc. Even though the exams are in French, I learnt most of my medicine in English. 

   You will be doing better after one semester. If you are interested in doing your residency in English Canada, arrange electives in your desired location.

    I have no problem booking electives as an OOP Quebec French student, just make sure that you apply early through the AFMC portal. 

    Good luck to you and to everyone in the match this year! :)

I think that there is a pretty clear division between Quebec and english Canada with McGill being in the middle.  Gpa plays a major role in matching and specialties in Quebec, so cegep students would not be disadvantaged.  The extra year that UdeM students have of real premed (very relevant courses to medicine), I think would probably help them a lot for a test like the lmcc.  

 

I go to a French med school, have a good cv with extensive research experience but language is really making it difficult.  I had relatively weak base in French (did not make the UdeM TFI cutoff last year) and am finding learning (and even expanding on stuff I knew in english), reasoning in french to be difficult.  So my gpa is really getting beaten down.  Ironically, the reasons I feel I probably didn't get more interest from a number of anglo med schools when I applied last year was my gpa from 15+ years ago (but for different reasons - didn't like my program, not motivated, ...).  Even two graduate degrees and an almost completed second degree with strong gpa couldn't erase the stain of some of my original grades.  

 

 

In my case, I feel I work harder than a number of my classmates for fewer results.  But I think it is highly related to my linguistic issues.  Although matching is a few years down the road, I think I will apply broadly, but feel I would be the most competent in a system where my bilingualism would be a real asset.  I do feel though, had I been accepted into the English system, I may have had more opportunities.

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I think that there is a pretty clear division between Quebec and english Canada with McGill being in the middle.  Gpa plays a major role in matching and specialties in Quebec, so cegep students would not be disadvantaged.  The extra year that UdeM students have of real premed (very relevant courses to medicine), I think would probably help them a lot for a test like the lmcc.  

 

I go to a French med school, have a good cv with extensive research experience but language is really making it difficult.  I had relatively weak base in French (did not make the UdeM TFI cutoff last year) and am finding learning (and even expanding on stuff I knew in english), reasoning in french to be difficult.  So my gpa is really getting beaten down.  Ironically, the reasons I feel I probably didn't get more interest from a number of anglo med schools when I applied last year was my gpa from 15+ years ago (but for different reasons - didn't like my program, not motivated, ...).  Even two graduate degrees and an almost completed second degree with strong gpa couldn't erase the stain of some of my original grades.  

 

 

In my case, I feel I work harder than a number of my classmates for fewer results.  But I think it is highly related to my linguistic issues.  Although matching is a few years down the road, I think I will apply broadly, but feel I would be the most competent in a system where my bilingualism would be a real asset.  I do feel though, had I been accepted into the English system, I may have had more opportunities.

 

As a senior from the same medschool I can confirm, GPA does play a big role in matching so cegep students aren't disadvantaged when it comes to ECs (less time for research, volunteering, publications, etc etc). But at the same time, it limits the possibilities of application to the home province -- unlike undergrad, cegep doesn't offer a typical science university environment where you could pursue research for example.

 

OP, the good thing is that clerkship grades usually help you if you're below average: the average grade in clerkship is B+, which is around the class average GPA.

 

Also,  there are some studying tips I'll be PM'ing you about...

 

I do agree that the English system would have given you broader opportunities, given your background in research -- at UdeS we have less summer research opportunities, both local and abroad, unless you're going for a MSc. Same goes for international electives, network of hospitals to do clerkship... And the weird clerkship stream won't definitely help you match in the English system -- you just need to plan accordingly next year when you choose your electives.

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Hey OP,

 

   I did my cegep studies in English. I found the beginning of medical school to be difficult, especially the 1st semester with all the basic science courses. After the first semester, I quickly adapted to the French language. Most of my textbook references are in English, UptoDate, etc. Even though the exams are in French, I learnt most of my medicine in English. 

   You will be doing better after one semester. If you are interested in doing your residency in English Canada, arrange electives in your desired location.

    I have no problem booking electives as an OOP Quebec French student, just make sure that you apply early through the AFMC portal. 

    Good luck to you and to everyone in the match this year! :)

 

You're absolutely right! Although for Aspiringphddoc, booking some electives will be bothersome since he or she will not have gone through core rotations at all (all our 3 electives pre-carms are scheduled in the first 3 months of clerkship). And if he's English to start with, excelling in English electives won't be a problem at all! :)

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Hey!  thanks for the motivating words.  I have a feeling your base was significantly stronger in French than mine (UdeM has strict french requirements for med school), however it is true that my french is improving.  I am not matching this year - however, it will be a question of how lower preclinical grades are seen.  In French Quebec, I think it will be a clear disadvantage, but maybe less so in English Canada.  Otoh, matching is more competitive in English Canada (effectively more candidates applying).  So wait and see...

 

For some programs, preclinical grades are taken in account, especially in French schools. For example, for UdeS' internal med, they're taken into  consideration, as well as mentor subjective evaluations from Unité multi. 

 

For English schools,  I can't say, I'm going through the match myself this year... But I'm pretty sure having grades under class average doesn't really favor you.

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Hey OP,

 

   I am sorry about your CaRMs invites....if it helps, I know people who got matched to surgical specialties with lower than class GPA (generaly surgery, ortho etc), they did have good clerkship evaluations. Probably something is wrong with your LORs? I don't think that having a lower GPA than class average means that one is out of the game, even for French schools. 

   Best of luck for the match :)

For some programs, preclinical grades are taken in account, especially in French schools. For example, for UdeS' internal med, they're taken into  consideration, as well as mentor subjective evaluations from Unité multi. 

 

For English schools,  I can't say, I'm going through the match myself this year... But I'm pretty sure having grades under class average doesn't really favor you.

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Hey OP,

 

   I am sorry about your CaRMs invites....if it helps, I know people who got matched to surgical specialties with lower than class GPA (generaly surgery, ortho etc), they did have good clerkship evaluations. Probably something is wrong with your LORs? I don't think that having a lower GPA than class average means that one is out of the game, even for French schools. 

   Best of luck for the match :)

 

You're right LittleDaisy, thanks for kind words! No having a lower GPA doesn't put you out of the ball game for sure, but for some competitive spots, I understand that a little triage is needed :P For French schools, programs directors tend to be nicer to straight-from-cegep students, since they understand what our background (read: inexistent) is. At least, given my situation, I'm not shocked to get rejections from English programs -- but for Ontario friends who have major leadership roles publications good grades and clerkship etc etc to be rejected for family med, that's another story... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

img cmg or mix?

Is the trend really that high for IMGs applying to path? I always assumed it was true, but not necessarily so obvious of a proportion.

 

Also, 20 people doesn't seem like a lot, if its the same 20 people applying to all the programs?    

 

Interesting notion though! Time to check the CaRMS data(although I still think they can use some work in terms of publicizing their data)

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Is the trend really that high for IMGs applying to path? I always assumed it was true, but not necessarily so obvious of a proportion.

 

Also, 20 people doesn't seem like a lot, if its the same 20 people applying to all the programs?    

 

Interesting notion though! Time to check the CaRMS data(although I still think they can use some work in terms of publicizing their data)

 

I would agree - I mean rads right now is the lowest it has been in a very long time in terms of the number of applicants. There could easily be spots left over. Still when you look at each school there is often a 10:1 ratio of applicants to spots still give or take. It is just that there are so many schools to apply to. Plus yeah most serious candidates will apply to most of the schools.

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