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Pursuing A Second Degree? What You Need To Know.

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12 minutes ago, Doc2Be said:

Yes! Many people will often do one BSc and then decide to do another one (so a lot of the credits are transferable). Also, I know some universities offer 2nd entry nursing (BscN) where you go in as a 3rd year student as long as you have taken the prerequisites.

Thanks! Are these universities in Quebec?

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1 hour ago, Focused said:

Thanks! Are these universities in Quebec?

I am more familiar with Ontario Universities. Although, Universities tend to have similar rules when it comes to credits. I would recommend you find a program of interest first, and then contact the admissions office of that specific university to see if you could transfer credits. I'm sure it has to exist! :) 

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I completed a 90-credit BSc in Biochemistry in 5 years. I mostly did 12 credits/4 classes per semester. Only my last semester was part time (6 credits/2 classes). I did 18 extra credits because my course sequence got messed up after failing classes, and I wanted to remain full time because I was a varsity athlete (and we get 5 years of eligibility so I was in no rush to leave). Med school was not on my radar so I didn’t care at all about how this would look. 

I had a quarter-life crisis and decided to pursue my secret dream of medicine. I started a second BSc in kinesiology. We are given a maximum of 30 transfer credits if we have completed a first degree. However, since I had 18 extra credits that were technically not part of my first degree, these were applied towards my second degree. I completed one year and 24 new credits of my second degree, and I’ll be completing another 24 credits and graduating this year. I’m pretty sure I can’t apply this year since even if they count my 18 credits (which were mixed in to the last two years of my first degree so “consecutive” is questionable?) it would only be 42 credits. 

My first BSc was not good, I had just over a 3.0. So far in my second degree I have a 3.96.

I have no idea how they will interpret this credit situation or if it’s even worth trying... I feel like I missed the boat and my situation is too abnormal to fix. Any advice would be appreciated. 

 

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On 10/18/2018 at 12:38 AM, Ks_10 said:

I completed a 90-credit BSc in Biochemistry in 5 years. I mostly did 12 credits/4 classes per semester. Only my last semester was part time (6 credits/2 classes). I did 18 extra credits because my course sequence got messed up after failing classes, and I wanted to remain full time because I was a varsity athlete (and we get 5 years of eligibility so I was in no rush to leave). Med school was not on my radar so I didn’t care at all about how this would look. 

I had a quarter-life crisis and decided to pursue my secret dream of medicine. I started a second BSc in kinesiology. We are given a maximum of 30 transfer credits if we have completed a first degree. However, since I had 18 extra credits that were technically not part of my first degree, these were applied towards my second degree. I completed one year and 24 new credits of my second degree, and I’ll be completing another 24 credits and graduating this year. I’m pretty sure I can’t apply this year since even if they count my 18 credits (which were mixed in to the last two years of my first degree so “consecutive” is questionable?) it would only be 42 credits. 

My first BSc was not good, I had just over a 3.0. So far in my second degree I have a 3.96.

I have no idea how they will interpret this credit situation or if it’s even worth trying... I feel like I missed the boat and my situation is too abnormal to fix. Any advice would be appreciated. 

 

Transfer credits

You need to have a minimum of 45 new credits completed in the program that serves as the basis of application.
In your case, you want to complete 45 credits in kinesiology without counting any transfers.
You can't apply this year since right now, you only have 24 credits completed.
Assuming that you will complete 24 more credits this year, you can apply next year.
The credits must be completed before November 1st.
The GPA that will serve as the basis of your admission is the one from your new degree.
Transfer credits do not count as a part of your new GPA.

Precaution

At the moment of your application, you would have been out of CEGEP since a few years.
Note that McGill requires you to re-take certain pre-reqs after 8 years.
Make sure you have those re-taken or get exempted from them.
It could impede on your next application cycle.

Continue working hard and apply next year.

Hope it's clear!

Best of luck :)

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If I have taken my science required courses as part of my first degree, but have finished a second degree (the one I am applying with +MCAT) does anyone know how that would work since they are supposed to look at your second degree? Do you have to retake the science courses again with the second degree?

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On 1/14/2019 at 10:55 AM, BluetootheKabir said:

If I have taken my science required courses as part of my first degree, but have finished a second degree (the one I am applying with +MCAT) does anyone know how that would work since they are supposed to look at your second degree? Do you have to retake the science courses again with the second degree?

You prereqs can be taken from any point in your schooling. So no, your prereqs don't have to be retaken with the second degree (assuming they are not over 8 years old!).  Your second degree will be the degree used as the basis of admission from which your degree cumulative GPA will be calculated and evaluated (ie the one for which you input all the grades in the academic workbook). In the same academic workbook, you will also put your prereq courses and they will be used to calculate your PrereqGPA. 

 

source:

https://mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/selection-process/academic-evaluation

(under the "For university-level applicants" tab, then check "Performance in the basic sciences")

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Hi everyone,

I need some advice on whether I should do a second degree. Here is my situation. I am about to complete a degree in honours mechanical engineering at McGill with a 3.7 gpa. I didn't apply to med this term, but from what I have seen, people with less than 3.8 rarely get the interview, and the average gpa is increasing each year. Should I start a second degree to improve my chance?

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2 hours ago, MechNerd said:

Hi everyone,

I need some advice on whether I should do a second degree. Here is my situation. I am about to complete a degree in honours mechanical engineering at McGill with a 3.7 gpa. I didn't apply to med this term, but from what I have seen, people with less than 3.8 rarely get the interview, and the average gpa is increasing each year. Should I start a second degree to improve my chance?

Do not rely entirely on the GPA average you see on McGill stats. There have been many cases of people with way lower GPAs getting in. As far as I've been able to tell a well-rounded and active EC record seems to be more than able to offset a 3.7 GPA in the application. I think, not crossing out a second degree option entirely which can always help!, you should definitely apply next cycle.

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5 hours ago, MechNerd said:

Hi everyone,

I need some advice on whether I should do a second degree. Here is my situation. I am about to complete a degree in honours mechanical engineering at McGill with a 3.7 gpa. I didn't apply to med this term, but from what I have seen, people with less than 3.8 rarely get the interview, and the average gpa is increasing each year. Should I start a second degree to improve my chance?

I don't think it is worth it in your case, for McGill.
For other schools, maybe it is.
Working 2-3 more years to improve your GPA from 3.7 to 3.9?
I think you can spend that time improving many other aspects.
There is also a lot of luck involved.
As you may know, many 4.0 applicant do not even get interviewed.

Best of luck!:)

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3 hours ago, Moonlight2 said:

Do not rely entirely on the GPA average you see on McGill stats. There have been many cases of people with way lower GPAs getting in. As far as I've been able to tell a well-rounded and active EC record seems to be more than able to offset a 3.7 GPA in the application. I think, not crossing out a second degree option entirely which can always help!, you should definitely apply next cycle.

Thank you for the reply! I will definitely apply next year to see my ranking. Seeing the average gpa going higher and higher every year really stresses me out :o.

 

51 minutes ago, HoopDreams said:

I don't think it is worth it in your case, for McGill.
For other schools, maybe it is.
Working 2-3 more years to improve your GPA from 3.7 to 3.9?
I think you can spend that time improving many other aspects.
There is also a lot of luck involved.
As you may know, many 4.0 applicant do not even get interviewed.

Best of luck!:)

Thank you for the advice. I intend to stay in Quebec, so probably just going to apply McGill and french schools. TBH, I really don't wanna do a second degree if I don't have to... engineering was no joke.

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2 hours ago, MechNerd said:

Thank you for the reply! I will definitely apply next year to see my ranking. Seeing the average gpa going higher and higher every year really stresses me out :o.

 

Thank you for the advice. I intend to stay in Quebec, so probably just going to apply McGill and french schools. TBH, I really don't wanna do a second degree if I don't have to... engineering was no joke.

 You don't have to do engineering for your 2nd degree. I know from people who've done engineering that it is really hard to get a decent GPA, harder than some of the sciences.  You might be able to find something you like outside engineering and start while applying and doing ECs at the same time. I believe you should be able to just leave a second degree if you get accepted anywhere.

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2 hours ago, Moonlight2 said:

 You don't have to do engineering for your 2nd degree. I know from people who've done engineering that it is really hard to get a decent GPA, harder than some of the sciences.  You might be able to find something you like outside engineering and start while applying and doing ECs at the same time. I believe you should be able to just leave a second degree if you get accepted anywhere.

Oh for sure. I am not gonna do another engineering degree. I was saying that going through engineering wasn't an easy process, so I really don't wanna start from beginning and do another degree if I don't have to. But looking at the stats, I have the feeling that the average gpa of McGill applicant for IP is approaching 3.9, and at the end of day, a second degree might really be required.

I agree that start a second degree then drop it whenever I got accepted somewhere is a good option. Right now, I am debating between doing another Bachelor or going into a fully funded Master with thesis in engineering.

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22 hours ago, zackattack881 said:

Do you need to finish your second bachelor to be accepted by McGill? Or is reaching 60 credits enough?

basis of admission degree (the degree with the higher GPA) must be completed prior to july 31 deadline. 

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17 hours ago, dreamteam22 said:

basis of admission degree (the degree with the higher GPA) must be completed prior to july 31 deadline. 

once i called the admission office and the person on the phone confirmed to me that if the second degree is not conferred as of July 31 (i.e. you completed 60 crédits but still need some credits to get degree), they will consider your new 60 credits but also a 30 credits from your previous degree. 

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28 minutes ago, gatbacan said:

once i called the admission office and the person on the phone confirmed to me that if the second degree is not conferred as of July 31 (i.e. you completed 60 crédits but still need some credits to get degree), they will consider your new 60 credits but also a 30 credits from your previous degree. 

Maybe call again to verify

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I'm completing my Bsc in pharmacology at mcgill in a couple of months, but I'm considering doing a BSc in psyc which only has 54 credits (also at McGill).....  how do i go about finding a programs that 60+ credits??? or is 54 credits ok and i just have to complete at least 45 credits by november??

 

ty

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Hello to any future applicants reading this :)

Last year, I found myself being in a particular situation and not finding direct answers to my questions. Even if I emailed the admissions office, their answers were quite generic and left me confused. I thought I'd share my situation....To whomever may be reading this in the future, if you are in the same situation as I was, hopefully you get the answers you wanted (because I know this can be quite anxiety inducing). 

I graduated from my BSc in 2018. That same year, I got waitlisted at McGill for their MD CM program, and so I opted to immediately start a 2nd degree (BScN 2nd entry - 75 credits).

While reapplying this year (2019 cycle): 

1- my admission degree was my BSc because I would only have 45 credits by July 31st 2019 and would not be graduating from my BScN. In order for your 2nd degree to be used, you NEED TO GRADUATE THAT PROGRAM and for THAT GPA TO BE HIGHER THAN YOUR PREVIOUS DEGREE. You also need a minimum of 45 CONSECUTIVE GRADED (not pass or fail) credits by the application deadline. Your prerequisites from the previous degree can still be used for up to 8 years and must be GRADED. 

2- on my MAW, I had indicated that my 2nd degree completion (BScN) would be in 2020. A feedback note stating that I would not be graduating with that degree appeared AND THAT'S OKAY. DO NOT PANIC!!! In the sheet where you need to indicate your grades, include ALL YOUR GRADES, EVEN THE ONES OF YOUR NEW DEGREE. On the very last excel sheet, you will see which degree will be used. In my case it was my BSc, and that's exactly what I wanted. 

3- Does this impact you negatively? NO! I was admitted to McGill this year with my BSc. I will not be completing my BScN. 

If you have questions, you can always PM me

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Since the requirements have changed. I thought I will ask questions anew

Quote

Applicants may be considered on the basis of a second, subsequent undergraduate degree (minimum 60 credits). However, 45 consecutive graded credits (in a second/alternate bachelor's degree program) must be completed by the November 1 application deadline. The remaining 15 (or more) credits must be completed by July 31 of the year of entry to medical school, and these must be at a level comparable to that which appears in the academic records submitted at the time of application. A marked decline in academic performance in the final term(s) may lead to withdrawal of an offer of admission. Please note that the second degree must be conferred before the start of medical studies.

Questions:

 45 consecutive graded credits 

Consecutive is the word throwing me off completely. Does that mean a block of 45 consecutive graded credits which cannot be interrupted with a summer course / independent course (or a parallel course at another university or cegep ?)

must be at a level comparable

What does this level and comparable mean ? Meaning if you are taking 300 level courses then literally it means you can only take 300 level courses and not (higher) level courses as an example.

Lastly, if someone has hashed these out with the admissions office . please indicate so in your answers as this will help future people in seeing what the admissions office says versus opinion.

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On 7/11/2019 at 9:26 PM, analyst said:

Since the requirements have changed. I thought I will ask questions anew

Questions:


 45 consecutive graded credits 

Consecutive is the word throwing me off completely. Does that mean a block of 45 consecutive graded credits which cannot be interrupted with a summer course / independent course (or a parallel course at another university or cegep ?)


must be at a level comparable

What does this level and comparable mean ? Meaning if you are taking 300 level courses then literally it means you can only take 300 level courses and not (higher) level courses as an example.

Lastly, if someone has hashed these out with the admissions office . please indicate so in your answers as this will help future people in seeing what the admissions office says versus opinion.

By consecutive, they mean one after the other.. Sure, summer breaks are fine.. but they don't want you taking a semester off or anything like that. 

Now for comparable... let's say your first degree was in Biochem, and now your second degree is in Arts...They expect you to take courses that are more "difficult" and would compare to the difficulty of courses in your BSc. How would they know? Often, on your transcript, there's a class average... If the class average is a 9.0/10 scale vs 6/10, and you got a 10/10 in both courses, you can clearly tell which course was easier! Also, you cannot be in 4th year, and take 100 level courses...that makes no sense for them! If you're in 3rd year and take one 200 level course, im sure that'll pass...but I would try to stick to the same level or above :)

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On 3/28/2019 at 10:56 AM, Doc2Be said:

Hello to any future applicants reading this :)

Last year, I found myself being in a particular situation and not finding direct answers to my questions. Even if I emailed the admissions office, their answers were quite generic and left me confused. I thought I'd share my situation....To whomever may be reading this in the future, if you are in the same situation as I was, hopefully you get the answers you wanted (because I know this can be quite anxiety inducing). 

I graduated from my BSc in 2018. That same year, I got waitlisted at McGill for their MD CM program, and so I opted to immediately start a 2nd degree (BScN 2nd entry - 75 credits).

While reapplying this year (2019 cycle): 

1- my admission degree was my BSc because I would only have 45 credits by July 31st 2019 and would not be graduating from my BScN. In order for your 2nd degree to be used, you NEED TO GRADUATE THAT PROGRAM and for THAT GPA TO BE HIGHER THAN YOUR PREVIOUS DEGREE. You also need a minimum of 45 CONSECUTIVE GRADED (not pass or fail) credits by the application deadline. Your prerequisites from the previous degree can still be used for up to 8 years and must be GRADED. 

2- on my MAW, I had indicated that my 2nd degree completion (BScN) would be in 2020. A feedback note stating that I would not be graduating with that degree appeared AND THAT'S OKAY. DO NOT PANIC!!! In the sheet where you need to indicate your grades, include ALL YOUR GRADES, EVEN THE ONES OF YOUR NEW DEGREE. On the very last excel sheet, you will see which degree will be used. In my case it was my BSc, and that's exactly what I wanted. 

3- Does this impact you negatively? NO! I was admitted to McGill this year with my BSc. I will not be completing my BScN. 

If you have questions, you can always PM me

 

Hey thanks for the great info. I was wondering how this process would differ for those who would like to only use their second degree (GPA) in the application process? 

 

For instance, regarding second degrees McGill says "Applicants may be considered on the basis of a second, subsequent undergraduate degree (minimum 60 credits). However, 45 consecutive graded credits (in a second/alternate bachelor's degree program) must be completed by the November 1 application deadline. The remaining 15 (or more) credits must be completed by July 31 of the year of entry to medical school, and these must be at a level comparable to that which appears in the academic records submitted at the time of application. A marked decline in academic performance in the final term(s) may lead to withdrawal of an offer of admission. Please note that the second degree must be conferred before the start of medical studies." 

 

So does this mean If I complete 60 credits in my second degree they will only use the GPA recorded from that degree? I've completed my first degree in Bach of nursing and plan to take biomedical science as my second degree to complete in 2 years. I think that would meet the criteria of having comparable degrees. 

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Yes. According to how they word it, as long as 45 credits of your second bachelor's degree are completed by November 1, that should be the only cGPA they use. If you've completed 60 credits of your second bachelor's degree, they'll use the cGPA for all 60 credits. In neither case should any of the classes from your first degree factor into your cGPA.

But as for the comparable degree language, I think it refers mostly to your grades. They say "...45 consecutive graded credits (in a second/alternate bachelor's degree program) must be completed by the November 1 application deadline.The remaining 15 (or more) credits must be completed by July 31 of the year of entry to medical school, and these must be at a level comparable to that which appears in the academic records submitted at the time of application."

The "level comparable" refers to the previous 45 credits required to apply based on a second degree. So for example if in November 2020 you want to apply based on a second bachelor's degree, you'd have to have 45 credits of it already completed by November 1. If you do, they'll base your cGPA on only those 45 credits. BUT, you also need to finish the second bachelor's degree before you can actually enrol (i.e. you can't start a second degree, get admitted to med, and then not finish the second degree), so the remaining 15 credits for the second degree would have to be completed in either the Fall or Winter semester. The comparable level language means that if your first 45 credits were at a 4.0 GPA, and they admit you based on that, then they expect you to complete the remaining 15 credits at a level comparable, i.e. if you get a bunch of Bs and Cs in 100 level classes, they'll be like WTF no. In the next sentence on their website they say, "A marked decline in academic performance in the final term(s) may lead to withdrawal of an offer of admission." Which I think supports the interpretation that this policy refers to your actual grades, and not some arbitrary comparison on the relative difficulty of your two bachelor's degrees.

The whole point is that the first bachelor's degree isn't supposed to matter anymore, and McGill isn't like the French schools with some formal published ranking of how they perceive the relative difficulty of all the different undergrad programs. 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but this is how I understand it!

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Hey guys,

I know this tread is old but I wanted to ask about my situation. I got my first degree from an international school (non Canada/us) I'm now pursuing a second degree. My first degree was in Physics. Do I need to take the two physics courses again? I'll take the other prereqs but I wasn't sure about Physics. Does anyone know what they think of classes from international universities?

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15 minutes ago, Panda M.D. said:

Hey guys,

I know this tread is old but I wanted to ask about my situation. I got my first degree from an international school (non Canada/us) I'm now pursuing a second degree. My first degree was in Physics. Do I need to take the two physics courses again? I'll take the other prereqs but I wasn't sure about Physics. Does anyone know what they think of classes from international universities?

My hunch is that you're probably fine as long as you can point to two introductory physics courses that are roughly equivalent to the courses at McGill. If I were you I would email admissions to ask specifically if it's okay that they were completed at a non-North American school.

You've already read through this page, right? They seem to be pretty reasonable about it I think.

 

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