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Chances Of Residency And Work


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Hi,

 

I have some very general questions:

 

1) If I do my MD at international school, and my residency in Canada/USA, does it mean I can work in Canada/USA after ? Or my MD HAS to be done in Canada/USA ?

 

2) if I go to an international school, what are my chances of going back to Canada (or USA) after ?

 

3) Which school (from which countries) are better for going back to Canada?

 

Thanks! And sorry if my questions are naive.

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1) MD doesn't HAVE to be done in Canada/USA in order to practice in Canada/USA, but if you want to practice in a country, it is always easier to do your MD and residency in that country. There also are visa issues. You need a green card to practice in USA, more easily accessible if you own a H1B visa and not the J1 visa. H1B visa is harder to get though.

2) Your chances of going back to Canada/USA are low. And USA is easier to come back than Canada (extremely low for Canada)

3) None

 

Your questions are not naive.

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Go international only if you have tried everything else. It's getting harder and harder every year to come back for residency. It's a HUGE risk.

If international means USA, it's okay. Other than that, I don't think it's a good idea.

 

*think about the 300k in debt you'll get from the 4 years, and the high risk of not even being matched*

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Thanks for your reply.

 

1) so if I do my MD abroad, to practice in Canada after I need to do my residency in USA or Canada, right? If i do the residency in USA it works also for canada?

 

2) ok so it's easier to come back to USA. So which schools are better to come back to USA for residency?

 

3) weither I can come back or not after doing an MD abroad, it depends on what? My marks during my md?

 

Thanks.

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the main issue is residency - because without residency the MD itself is a 300K sheet of paper. You cannot practise without completing residency.

 

If you go abroad then the question is can you do residency there or another partnered country or come back here and do residency in Canada. Also HUGE difference if you go to the US vs anywhere else. 

 

Both routes have some big, big problems to over come:

 

1) the host country often simply does not let you do residency there. Ireland or Australia are examples to just name a few of the big players

2) the country doesn't have any residency programs - think of the Caribbean schools. You can leave to go to the US in this case but then you are still going to have to put in a lot of work 

3) return to Canada means competing in CARMS as a IMG (which is what you are). You don't get access to the first round for the most part and the vast majority of the spots, including all the competitive things, will fill up. Then you compete with all the other IMGs in the second round - very competitive as you can imagine.

 

It can and has been done of course! It is just there is always a very hard part of the process for everyone - for CMGs it is getting into medical school. For IMGs it is getting into residency somewhere in a field they actually want. No shortcuts.

 

I mentioned the US route is special - that is because as a US MD grad you get to compete in the first round of CARMS just like all the CMGs. That is a huge deal :)

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Thank you for your answers.

 

1) If I do my reaidency in USA, can I practice to Canada after?

 

2) What is PR and PD? My chances of matching a residency in Canada depend on what?

 

3) For the Big 4: Ross SGU Saba AUC, do you need the MCAT?

1 ) If you do residency in USA you can practice in Canada afterwards, you might have to do a 1 year supervised practice but literally its no big deal. You'll find it difficult to get hired at a uni hospital though if you come from the Caribbean and if you didn't go to a decent university residency program especially if there is a job shortage in Canada like right now. 

2 ) PR is permanent residency and PD is program director, the person in charge of admissions for a residency program. 

3 ) You need MCAT 

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Hi,

 

I have some very general questions:

 

1) If I do my MD at international school, and my residency in Canada/USA, does it mean I can work in Canada/USA after ? Or my MD HAS to be done in Canada/USA ?

 

2) if I go to an international school, what are my chances of going back to Canada (or USA) after ?

 

3) Which school (from which countries) are better for going back to Canada?

 

Thanks! And sorry if my questions are naive.

1 ) Yes you can work in Canada. Residency is what really matters for licensing. If you do residency in Canada or the USA you should be fine working in either countries although if you decide to switch it may involve some extra tests or supervised practice. 

 

2 ) Pretty low USA isn't too bad maybe something like 60-70%, generally the quality of Canadians who go to the Caribbean is higher than those from the US so your better stats should counter the fact you don't have citizenship. Your chances in Canada will be pretty low, right now for "europe same year grads" its 43% in 2014 and for Caribbean lower around 25%? However keep in mind these numbers will drop since there weren't nearly as many canadians studying abroad or CSAs back in 2008-2010 as there are now. I'd put your chances maybe somewhere around 15-25% chance if you were to leave in 2015. 

 

3 ) Caribbean probably gives you the best chance although there is still a ceiling as in many of the top university programs in the US won't consider Caribbean grads period (its purely a pedigree thing, if a top uni program has Caribbeans on its roster (which many publish) it reduces its ability to attract American grads as many equate Caribbean MDs = Not competitive program) . All the Canadian programs in Canada will consider Caribbean grads. I recommend Australia, its only requires slightly higher grades than the big 4 and you can often get a pretty decent name brand school. It may help you when you apply for residency as well. There is also a chance of doing an internship in Australia although you'll need PR before you can get residency in Australia. Ireland is also a decent option, it requires higher grades than Australia but still has pretty decent matching success

 

Don't go abroad if you plan on being picky for your residency. If you turn out best in your class and you really can show that on electives/rotations you might be able to nail something competitive, but chances are you won't be. The vast majority of spots for IMGs in Canada at least are for family medicine and in the US most are for internal medicine. 

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1 ) Yes you can work in Canada. Residency is what really matters for licensing. If you do residency in Canada or the USA you should be fine working in either countries although if you decide to switch it may involve some extra tests or supervised practice. 

 

2 ) Pretty low USA isn't too bad maybe something like 60-70%, generally the quality of Canadians who go to the Caribbean is higher than those from the US so your better stats should counter the fact you don't have citizenship. Your chances in Canada will be pretty low, right now for "europe same year grads" its 43% in 2014 and for Caribbean lower around 25%? However keep in mind these numbers will drop since there weren't nearly as many canadians studying abroad or CSAs back in 2008-2010 as there are now. I'd put your chances maybe somewhere around 15-25% chance if you were to leave in 2015. 

 

3 ) Caribbean probably gives you the best chance although there is still a ceiling as in many of the top university programs won't consider Caribbean grads period. I recommend Australia, its only requires slightly higher grades than the big 4 and you can often get a pretty decent name brand school. It may help you when you apply for residency as well. There is also a chance of doing an internship in Australia although you'll need PR before you can get residency in Australia. Ireland is also a decent option, it requires higher grades than Australia but still has pretty decent matching success

 

Don't go abroad if you plan on being picky for your residency. If you turn out best in your class and you really can show that on electives/rotations you might be able to nail something competitive, but chances are you won't be. The vast majority of spots for IMGs in Canada at least are for family medicine and in the US most are for internal medicine. 

OK!

 

1) So when you say60-70% to come back to USA, you mean "to have a residency in USA" ? Therefore, it's not that low, no ?

 

2) And what does it depend on ?  Your grades during the MD?

 

3) What school can I apply that does not require the MCAT. I don't have the MCAT. 

 

Thank you so much

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the main issue is residency - because without residency the MD itself is a 300K sheet of paper. You cannot practise without completing residency.

 

You need to think of going abroad as the same thing as going to a casino and putting 300k on black at the roulette table. That's essentially what you are doing.

 

If you have the money to do it, go for it. But if you don't, be aware of the huge gamble you are taking. It could literally saddle you with a crushing debt that could affect you for the rest of your life.

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OK!

 

1) So when you say60-70% to come back to USA, you mean "to have a residency in USA" ? Therefore, it's not that low, no ?

 

2) And what does it depend on ?  Your grades during the MD?

 

3) What school can I apply that does not require the MCAT. I don't have the MCAT. 

 

Thank you so much

 

1) Its not low but then you have to consider that not getting a spot means you will have a useless degree and it looks bad. Everyone knows that a person with an MD from the Caribbean and nothing else is a person who could not get residency. 

 

2) It depends on your elective rotations in the US/Canada, your USMLE scores, in Canada your MCCEE and NAC OSCE scores, and your reference letters from those elective rotations

 

3) Irish 5 year programs will take you but you'll need a decent GPA if you aren't offering a test. Seriously, just write the MCAT its not even tough, if you can't write it don't be a doctor simple as that. 

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You need to think of going abroad as the same thing as going to a casino and putting 300k on black at the roulette table. That's essentially what you are doing.

 

If you have the money to do it, go for it. But if you don't, be aware of the huge gamble you are taking. It could literally saddle you with a crushing debt that could affect you for the rest of your life.

 

Its only like that if you are their mother or some observer watching in. You still have plenty of control. You can control your study habits, your work ethic and how well you perform. Its not tough if you are actually hard working.  

 

Coming back to Canada directly is more of a gamble. You can work your butt off and still just not beat the odds. 

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