Summer After 1St Year

[Valkyrie]

Hi,

 

What do most med students do after first year during the summer? Most talk about doing clinical research, some decide to go travel. Summer break is about 2 months, so it's not a lot of time. How about just shadowing and getting your clinical skills up to speed?

 

Is relaxing also an option?

[rmorelan]

Hi,

 

What do most med students do after first year during the summer? Most talk about doing clinical research, some decide to go travel. Summer break is about 2 months, so it's not a lot of time. How about just shadowing and getting your clinical skills up to speed?

 

Is relaxing also an option?

 

you pretty much just said all the things people do - what they choice to do depends a lot on their future career goals and how they perceive their chances are for it. You can

1) Relax, travel etc

2) Do research

3) Shadow Doctors, clinical electives etc

4) Study for the USMLE, or some area of medicine you want to better at

5) Other ECs like course work development, volunteer, clubs etc.

 

The only really tricky part is tailoring all of this to what you are applying to. The idea generally is the more competitive the field likely the more hard work you are going to have to put (so more of 2 and 3). Usual carms stuff - they are looking for hard working, smart people that are easy to work with - the summers can help show that.

[Valkyrie]

I'm interested in Family Medicine. I'm wondering how big clinical research factors in CARMs for FM. I was thinking of learning Mandarin in China or something which would be benefit me as a practicing physician.

[Aetherus]

I'm interested in Family Medicine. I'm wondering how big clinical research factors in CARMs for FM. I was thinking of learning Mandarin in China or something which would be benefit me as a practicing physician.

From my understanding, FM is fairly chill if you don't want to get into a big academic center (slightly harder to get toronto, Montreal or Vancouver). I think you are probably safe to go travel

[thsc]

From my understanding, FM is fairly chill if you don't want to get into a big academic center (slightly harder to get toronto, Montreal or Vancouver). I think you are probably safe to go travel

so Jelly

[rmorelan]

From my understanding, FM is fairly chill if you don't want to get into a big academic center (slightly harder to get toronto, Montreal or Vancouver). I think you are probably safe to go travel

Yeah basically - and that is point, you have to tailor things.

 

Basically family medicine is the safest by far to take the summers off, although it doesn't hurt to do some clinical electives to be sure family is indeed what you want

[Valkyrie]

I am interested in FM in a major center. What kind of clinical research do you recommend undertaking? What kind of realistic objectives should be expected in 2 months?

[rmorelan]

I am interested in FM in a major center. What kind of clinical research do you recommend undertaking? What kind of realistic objectives should be expected in 2 months?

 

first stop isn't this forum but actually to the family residents at your school and ask them what they did. I do find it curious how that is often not done Most of the family residents I know at Ottawa, Western and even TO very little research, if they did any at all.

 

second it is probably more the clinical electives that matter for family as I understand it - for networking, getting to know the field, being able to impress on electives etc.

 

the best research is usual an extension of what someone else in the target field is already doing - find a family doc doing research and help them. That way your end letters of reference are that much more powerful.

[APYYT]

Although I would definitely travel if I were to apply for FM, be careful about getting too comfortable. Location of your application will matter! For instance, I hear St. Paul's for FM is one of the most competitive spots in all of carms - so if you are gunning for a top location/program, I would try to bolster my application a bit during the summer. 

 

In the end, I'd still travel though 

[Dermaholoic]

In my opinion there are only two feasable options: 

 

1) do clinical research if you want to specialize

 

2) relax and enjoy your summer if you're cool with family med

 

shadowing seems like such a huge waste when you'll be fully up to speed against someone that shadowed when you're both 2 hours into ms-3.

[lokiki]

Hey, where is "work because you can't afford med school without it" on the list?

 

I hope to work next summer and also do a bit of shadowing, or whatever the hospital/physicians can offer me.

[rmorelan]

Hey, where is "work because you can't afford med school without it" on the list?

 

I hope to work next summer and also do a bit of shadowing, or whatever the hospital/physicians can offer me.

 

actually that came up recently with the some higher ups in education I was dealing with lately - it is a concern.

 

Trouble I think is it is rare - I mean with the LOC, bursaries, gov loans, and often family support plus the limited time available and short summers for working few people seem to be working strictly for money (hard to do, and relatively low income vs costs). Seems to make it harder for people to process in for admissions etc.

 

Best to combine - I worked in a research lab for instance in my summer to hit two targets at once

[Tacrolimus]

I'm not a med student, of course, but for CaRMS purposes, does (clinical) research, or even your CV while not being in med school matter? Research, solely, isn't something I see myself doing for the rest of my life, but I had a great experience last year doing multi-disciplinary clinical research in infectious diseases, and I'm leaning towards it this year too.

[ralk]

I'm not a med student, of course, but for CaRMS purposes, does (clinical) research, or even your CV while not being in med school matter? Research, solely, isn't something I see myself doing for the rest of my life, but I had a great experience last year doing multi-disciplinary clinical research in infectious diseases, and I'm leaning towards it this year too.

 

Short answer: No, what you do before med school likely won't have much of a direct impact on your eventual CaRMS applications. That's not to say it'll have no direct impact - if you published something in Nature, I'd imagine most programs would still care about that - but those activities in your CV are a minor consideration on their own.

 

Where pre-med stuff definitely can matter is in getting into high-quality activities once you are in Med School. There's more than a few things I'm doing this year where my past experience has been a factor in letting me do what I do now, and I do expect my current research activities and ECs to matter to CaRMS (not nearly as much as LORs and that sort of stuff, but still enough to make a potential difference).

 

At this point, if your ECs are fine for getting into Med School, do ECs that develop your total career moving forward. I wouldn't do another round of research this year if you have no interest in doing research ever again because it really won't matter too much in any residency applications, but if you'd like research to be a part of your longer-term career, go for it.

[rmorelan]

Short answer: No, what you do before med school likely won't have much of a direct impact on your eventual CaRMS applications. That's not to say it'll have no direct impact - if you published something in Nature, I'd imagine most programs would still care about that - but those activities in your CV are a minor consideration on their own.

 

Where pre-med stuff definitely can matter is in getting into high-quality activities once you are in Med School. There's more than a few things I'm doing this year where my past experience has been a factor in letting me do what I do now, and I do expect my current research activities and ECs to matter to CaRMS (not nearly as much as LORs and that sort of stuff, but still enough to make a potential difference).

 

At this point, if your ECs are fine for getting into Med School, do ECs that develop your total career moving forward. I wouldn't do another round of research this year if you have no interest in doing research ever again because it really won't matter too much in any residency applications, but if you'd like research to be a part of your longer-term career, go for it.

 

well things like prior masters and phds do have an impact I think - it can also extend ECs. I mean it isn't the focus of course but someone that has 20 publications etc because they have prior time to do that in graduate studies is going to have an advantage in some ways.

[Lactic Folly]

Of course, all activities of interest (ECs, research, etc.) matter, even if before med school. It's all part of the whole package. Since 3rd year clerkship is so busy, you basically have two years of med school -- two summers of research, two years of ECs (often med school - related, often similar to other applicants) compared to what you may have been involved in for many years leading up to this point, and what led medical school admissions committees to be interested in you in the first place...

[sy3a]

Hoping to get a medical student's perspective on this, but does having previous research experience/an MSc degree give you an advantage when looking for research opportunities in med school? Also, what are some of the main differences in research during med school vs in undergrad/master's? Would you say it's more clinical based? Thanks!

[rmorelan]

Hoping to get a medical student's perspective on this, but does having previous research experience/an MSc degree give you an advantage when looking for research opportunities in med school? Also, what are some of the main differences in research during med school vs in undergrad/master's? Would you say it's more clinical based? Thanks!

 

1) yes, my prior work let me pretty much immediately join a lab

2) yes again - assuming you want to do that sort of research. It is possibles till to do more bench work vs clinical but any medical doctor is going to be going more towards the clinical aspect of things.

[sy3a]

1) yes, my prior work let me pretty much immediately join a lab

2) yes again - assuming you want to do that sort of research. It is possibles till to do more bench work vs clinical but any medical doctor is going to be going more towards the clinical aspect of things.

Thanks rmorelan. How relevant was your prior work to the research your lab did @ Western? Or is it just that having any previous graduate research experience is what helps to secure supervisors, and not necessarily the field of research?

 

I'm just interested to see how having an MSc would play out in med school and whether there are any supervisor preferences for students with MSc degrees over those without one.

[ralk]

well things like prior masters and phds do have an impact I think - it can also extend ECs. I mean it isn't the focus of course but someone that has 20 publications etc because they have prior time to do that in graduate studies is going to have an advantage in some ways.

 

I agree, graduate studies are treated a bit differently, and as I said, on the extremes pre-med research can have an impact. But as Lactic Folly says, ECs matter for getting into Med School, so most of us have fairly good pre-med ECs. The marginal change on CaRMS applications from a single extra EC, unless it's a jaw-dropping one, is likely inconsequential. In Angiotensin II's specific situation, the difference between one summer doing research and two summers isn't likely to make an appreciable difference in their chances at residency programs, simply because it sounds like they've already got a good research base. There are still good reasons to do that second summer, and it certainly won't hurt for the purposes of CaRMS applications, but if the only goal is to improve CaRMS chances, it's not likely an efficient use of time and energy.

 

I'll put in this way - I'm looking at some reasonably competitive specialties, and based on my conversations with program directors, I have zero concerns about not doing more as a pre-med, including not doing any graduate work. The other aspects of the CaRMS application for most programs are simply more important to my chances.

[thsc]

I agree, graduate studies are treated a bit differently, and as I said, on the extremes pre-med research can have an impact. But as Lactic Folly says, ECs matter for getting into Med School, so most of us have fairly good pre-med ECs. The marginal change on CaRMS applications from a single extra EC, unless it's a jaw-dropping one, is likely inconsequential. In Angiotensin II's specific situation, the difference between one summer doing research and two summers isn't likely to make an appreciable difference in their chances at residency programs, simply because it sounds like they've already got a good research base. There are still good reasons to do that second summer, and it certainly won't hurt for the purposes of CaRMS applications, but if the only goal is to improve CaRMS chances, it's not likely an efficient use of time and energy.

 

I'll put in this way - I'm looking at some reasonably competitive specialties, and based on my conversations with program directors, I have zero concerns about not doing more as a pre-med, including not doing any graduate work. The other aspects of the CaRMS application for most programs are simply more important to my chances.

Do you mind elaborating on what some of these other aspects are, aside from clerkship evaluations and recommendation letters? 

[ralk]

Do you mind elaborating on what some of these other aspects are, aside from clerkship evaluations and recommendation letters? 

 

Those would be the big ones. As some other threads here have detailed, residency programs currently don't have a whole lot to go off of, so those two factors (plus interviews) tend to dominate. Research done in medical school, as well as ECs in medical school would be the other, smaller factors, that go along with pre-med research/ECs.

[thsc]

Those would be the big ones. As some other threads here have detailed, residency programs currently don't have a whole lot to go off of, so those two factors (plus interviews) tend to dominate. Research done in medical school, as well as ECs in medical school would be the other, smaller factors, that go along with pre-med research/ECs.

In that case, what would you consider more efficient use of time and energy to improve chances for CaRMS during the summers of 1st and 2nd year? 

[ralk]

In that case, what would you consider more efficient use of time and energy to improve chances for CaRMS during the summers of 1st and 2nd year? 

 

I think rmorelan covered it pretty well at the start of this thread: research and/or clinical electives, maybe something like a community outreach project. Which out of those is the best option will change person-to-person. Research is usually a safe bet, since it's explicitly considered by many competitive programs, but even then there's absolutely no requirement that it be done during your pre-clerkship summers - just look at Mac, which has no summers off yet still places many people in competitive specialties.

[MD2015]

After 1st year, I relaxed during the summer and had fun. I highly recommend this.