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Admission Statistics 2014


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Yeah that's my interpretation as well

 

We also have 35/100 people with graduate degree's and I am pretty sure that Queen's lowers the cutoff for people with graduate degree's. Either way, the cGPA doesn't mean much because someone who failed their first two years of uni would have a horrible cGPA but could potentially have a 4.0 2 year GPA.

 

I am guessing the GPA is probably closer to 3.85 but this is completely unfounded.

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I find it interesting that the applicant number has shot up so high compared to 2013. We haven't had an increase this big since the 2006/2007 cycles which I assume were flooded by the 2003 double cohort. I wonder why this happened and whether this rate of increase will hold for the 2015 cycle as well?

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Another aspect about UofT I think is EXTREMELY important to mention is the fact that because their averages are published online, those with lower GPAs don't even bother applying. I know of many people who have 3.8+ GPAs who said they didn't apply because they didn't believe they had any chance based on the admissions average AND because they felt it would be a waste of time to write 7 mini essays. This leaves applicants with higher GPAs who are willing to put in the time for the essays because they believe they have a real chance based off last year's admitted average.

 

This definitely decreases the number of applicants and can be compared to how Queen's receives significantly more applications while keeping their entering class' cumulative GPA between 3.7-3.8 (harder stat to find not posted on the admissions website) because those with lower GPAs still apply. Admission stats are great but I think it seriously drives up the competition in regards to numerical components (also look at Western who publishes MCAT cutoffs. People with lower MCATs just don't even bother applying, driving the cutoffs higher each year)

 

 

that's true .. but it's also interesting that the # of applicants increase year to year 

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"most" of the 69 were undergrads? but on the site it says that only 13 accepted were 3rd year students .. 

 

Undergraduates include students who get in after 4th year & 5th year too.

 

McMaster gives out Bachelor of Health Sciences (BHSc) if you complete only 3 years of Health Sciences, and Hons BHSc/BSc if you complete 4 years of Health Sciences or Arts & Sciences respectively.

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I have nothing against McMaster health sci - and in fact the ppl I met at the interviews last year from that program were all really personable and friendly - but regardless of how the marks are given out over there I wouldn't trade my education at U of T for anything. Maintaining a decent grade is like a battle over here and it's made me develop some thick skin haha :P

 

Maybe one thing to consider is the possibility that students who get into the Mac health sci program were really smart to begin with, and that's why the marks are high for the whole group in general

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I have nothing against McMaster health sci - and in fact the ppl I met at the interviews last year from that program were all really personable and friendly - but regardless of how the marks are given out over there I wouldn't trade my education at U of T for anything. Maintaining a decent grade is like a battle over here and it's made me develop some thick skin haha :P

 

Maybe one thing to consider is the possibility that students who get into the Mac health sci program were really smart to begin with, and that's why the marks are high for the whole group in general

That's the positive attitude to have!

 

Do not get bothered about how other schools are grading their students. It is not something within your control anyway. Best to work hard and do well in the things that ARE within your control.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The University of Toronto Stats does show the problems with grade inflation in general - and in fact the HUGE problem than one little program (health sciences at MAC) is having in all of Ontario in General.

 

At UofT, MAC health sciences ALONE has 40-45 people.  MAC as a whole has 69 students at UofT medical school - Canada's largest and most prestigious university, while all three campuses of UofT have a total of only 55 students.  When you have a program that gives virtually everyone 4.0s - and an admissions system (Toronto), that does not take the MCAT into account much - you get this.

 

MAC health science students are also the largest individual program represented at MAC meds and Ottawa meds.  They are less prolific at Queen's and Western - where using the MCAT evens the playing field.

 

A clampdown on corrupt practices at MAC Health Sciences, in my opinion, is required.

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The University of Toronto Stats does show the problems with grade inflation in general - and in fact the HUGE problem than one little program (health sciences at MAC) is having in all of Ontario in General.

 

At UofT, MAC health sciences ALONE has 40-45 people.  MAC as a whole has 69 students at UofT medical school - Canada's largest and most prestigious university, while all three campuses of UofT have a total of only 55 students.  When you have a program that gives virtually everyone 4.0s - and an admissions system (Toronto), that does not take the MCAT into account much - you get this.

 

MAC health science students are also the largest individual program represented at MAC meds and Ottawa meds.  They are less prolific at Queen's and Western - where using the MCAT evens the playing field.

 

A clampdown on corrupt practices at MAC Health Sciences, in my opinion, is required.

Look. While I agree with you to some extent, I don't think it's fair to describe the program as you have done.

 

First, I can understand your feelings. It is true that the high school average required for UWO Medical Sciences is nearly the same as Mac Health Sci and that there is a much lower percentage of students in the program at UWO achieving very high grades compared to that in the program at Mac. It's tough to say what this difference really comes down to, but grade inflation has often been suggested, as you have suggested as well. While more tightly regulating grades might be a good solution, we don't know what the exact stem of the difference really is (to keep it short, there are many other factors that play a role, including teaching, support services, etc)…so this suggested solution could be a resolution for a problem that is not even there.

 

At the end of the day, these programs are education providers as well as businesses. Mac Health Sci has no shortage of applicants, nor higher up systems that actively discredit applicants from that program (as that would be unethical). Sure, you could argue that grade inflation within the program is unethical in itself and a "clampdown on corrupt practices" would be ideal, but it very unlikely to happen from both a business perspective (why make your own program less-appealing when you are trying to attract some of the best & brightest) and a logistical perspective (what are really the root causes for this disparity). 

 

I can assure you that regardless of your undergrad program, you can succeed if you follow your passion: I have friends from both Western and Mac who are in 1T8. In particular, I know someone who went to Mac Health Sci, is currently 1T8, and had a much lower GPA than my friend from Western, who is also 1T8…so Mac Health Sci isn't as easy as it is sometimes put out to be either. Canadian professional schools don't care about what Canadian school you thought was better for you to pursue your undergrad in. They care about how you will perform, a quality they assess from more than simply your GPA.

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The University of Toronto Stats does show the problems with grade inflation in general - and in fact the HUGE problem than one little program (health sciences at MAC) is having in all of Ontario in General.

 

At UofT, MAC health sciences ALONE has 40-45 people.  MAC as a whole has 69 students at UofT medical school - Canada's largest and most prestigious university, while all three campuses of UofT have a total of only 55 students.  When you have a program that gives virtually everyone 4.0s - and an admissions system (Toronto), that does not take the MCAT into account much - you get this.

 

MAC health science students are also the largest individual program represented at MAC meds and Ottawa meds.  They are less prolific at Queen's and Western - where using the MCAT evens the playing field.

 

A clampdown on corrupt practices at MAC Health Sciences, in my opinion, is required.

 

Not much interest in health sci for Western, actually. 

 

What evens the playing field @ Queens is really the ABS. Their MCAT cutoff really isn't all that high. 

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I should've accepted my offer to Mac health sci, fml.

 

If you did, you never would have had a D+ in a course.  There are several classes where the students get to MARK each other - and people get to give themselves marks.  Several of their courses have 4.0 averages - with very little work required.  This isn't exactly secret information - but health sci students are definitely a little embarrassed by it (and defend themselves - as it does devalue their 4.0).  If the program was small (ie 50 per year), it probably wouldn't matter.  But it's not - it's a huge program.  And while many of their students are bright - I have met plenty (with 3.9-4.0 GPA ranges) that would have a hard time beating a door bell in an honest intellectual conversation.  The program is a blight on the academic integrity of the whole undergraduate system in Ontario.

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when i see 3.98 to 4.0 gpa's on premed 101, i automatically think oh they must be in mac health sci. Premed101 moderators should ask students to place an * next to their gpa if they are in mac health sci. Example:

 

Invite
Time Stamp: 31/01/2015
Location: IP
Stream: English stream
wGPA: 4.0******
Current year: Finished UG
ECs: average

 

it will allow us to distinguish between credible gpa's and none credible gpa's.

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If you did, you never would have had a D+ in a course.  There are several classes where the students get to MARK each other - and people get to give themselves marks.  Several of their courses have 4.0 averages - with very little work required.  This isn't exactly secret information - but health sci students are definitely a little embarrassed by it (and defend themselves - as it does devalue their 4.0).  If the program was small (ie 50 per year), it probably wouldn't matter.  But it's not - it's a huge program.  And while many of their students are bright - I have met plenty (with 3.9-4.0 GPA ranges) that would have a hard time beating a door bell in an honest intellectual conversation.  The program is a blight on the academic integrity of the whole undergraduate system in Ontario.

 

And you somehow would be able to best a door bell?

 

Someone who has been as consistently thick and offensive as yourself, on so many different occasions, either has an impressive tenacity as a troll or a profound lack of social skills that would render you impossible to have an intellectual conversation with. 

 

I think many on this forum would agree that if you somehow made it to medicine it would be discredit the entire credibility of the admissions system in Ontario. 

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when i see 3.98 to 4.0 gpa's on premed 101, i automatically think oh they must be in mac health sci. Very sorry that your mind would make such a basic generalization. Premed101 moderators should ask students to place an * next to their gpa if they are in mac health sci. Example:

 

Invite

Time Stamp: 31/01/2015

Location: IP

Stream: English stream

wGPA: 4.0******

Current year: Finished UG

ECs: average

 

it will allow us to distinguish between credible gpa's and none credible gpa's.

 

Ah, so if I do ever make it to medicine, I'll be sure to conceal my program of origin.

 

Clearly if you will foster a culture of intolerance so strong so as to discredit my entire undergraduate experience, I am better off lying. 

 

I wonder if you will be able to tell the difference? 

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Ah, so if I do ever make it to medicine, I'll be sure to conceal my program of origin.

 

Clearly if you will foster a culture of intolerance so strong so as to discredit my entire undergraduate experience, I am better off lying. 

 

I wonder if you will be able to tell the difference? 

I understand how you feel, no one wants to feel discredited. but the reality is, and i am being provocative and speculative :) , that a 3.98 to 4.0 at mac health sci is equal to ummmm ~ 3.7 to 3.75 at more credible schools like UofT and UBC. 

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Pfff, a 4.0 mac health sci GPA requires less effort than a 3.5 GPA at any U of T undergrad (biochem, LMP, IMM, etc). And lots of engineers get into medschool, especially U of T, with GPAs around 3.5, wGPA just over 3.6 I suppose to meet the cutoff. 

 

I understand how you feel, no one wants to feel discredited. but the reality is, and i am being provocative and speculative :) , that a 3.98 to 4.0 at mac health sci is equal to ummmm ~ 3.7 to 3.75 at more credible schools like UofT and UBC. 

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when i see 3.98 to 4.0 gpa's on premed 101, i automatically think oh they must be in mac health sci. Premed101 moderators should ask students to place an * next to their gpa if they are in mac health sci. Example:

 

Invite

Time Stamp: 31/01/2015

Location: IP

Stream: English stream

wGPA: 4.0******

Current year: Finished UG

ECs: average

 

it will allow us to distinguish between credible gpa's and none credible gpa's.

 

That would be pointless though. The only reason that anyone cares about the GPA on these forums is for number crunching (if they feel compelled to do so)

 

Edit: For reference, I did not go to Mac Health Sci :)

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