Jump to content
Premed 101 Forums

Studying Overseas - Caribbean Vs. Ireland?


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

 

After three unsuccessful applications with Canadian schools, I am seriously studying internationally to pursue medicine. I understand that the chances of coming back home for residency are greatly reduced (95% vs ~20% --> and even that much more difficult in a specialty more competitive than family medicine). However, I honestly feel it is pointless to keep applying locally, especially with applications being so competitive (and there being a degree of "luck" in the process).

 

I have applied to the US, Caribbean, and Ireland so far this year (in addition to UBC where I am IP). I am not holding my breath for the US (have yet to year anything positive, so I doubt I will hear anything this late in the game).

 

I have received offers from SGU in Grenada and Ross so far in Dominica. I am waiting on hearing back from the Atlantic Bridge about Ireland. What my question to you all here is, how do you choose between Ireland and the Caribbean? It seems SGU is basically the best of the Caribbean schools - and perhaps RCSI is one of the best in Ireland. What are the pros/cons of each? Is it better to go to SGU because the clerkship years are conducted in the US/Canada? (whereas in Ireland all 4 years are in Dublin/Limerick/Cork).

 

I would really appreciate any thoughts or input that any of you may have!

 

Thanks!

 

StarStrike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

After three unsuccessful applications with Canadian schools, I am seriously studying internationally to pursue medicine. I understand that the chances of coming back home for residency are greatly reduced (95% vs ~20% --> and even that much more difficult in a specialty more competitive than family medicine). However, I honestly feel it is pointless to keep applying locally, especially with applications being so competitive (and there being a degree of "luck" in the process).

 

I have applied to the US, Caribbean, and Ireland so far this year (in addition to UBC where I am IP). I am not holding my breath for the US (have yet to year anything positive, so I doubt I will hear anything this late in the game).

 

I have received offers from SGU in Grenada and Ross so far in Dominica. I am waiting on hearing back from the Atlantic Bridge about Ireland. What my question to you all here is, how do you choose between Ireland and the Caribbean? It seems SGU is basically the best of the Caribbean schools - and perhaps RCSI is one of the best in Ireland. What are the pros/cons of each? Is it better to go to SGU because the clerkship years are conducted in the US/Canada? (whereas in Ireland all 4 years are in Dublin/Limerick/Cork).

 

I would really appreciate any thoughts or input that any of you may have!

 

Thanks!

 

StarStrike

Long story short from what I understand (good friend is currently doing his FM residency in Canada, he is a Carib. Grad)

 

He told me that outside of family med he wouldn't expect to get any other residency in Canada, just the harsh reality of his situation. He didn't go to a top tier Caribbean school though. I recall him telling me for him the decision came down to the following

 

-if practicing in Canada eventually doesn't happen (reality for many) would I rather live a large portion of my life in the USA or Europe? He chose USA. I believe that going to Ireland etc. is more geared towards eventually practicing there.

 

I may be incorrect and have limited knowledge, but if you are ok with family medicine, are willing to study 24/7 and kill your USMLE, I would probably just go to the Caribbean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi StayHappy,

 

Thanks for your response. I see your point...I got the same feeling as well with the Caribbean, but I don't think I have enough information to really make a judgment about Ireland. I don't know what I really want from medicine - it is too early for me to tell. Right now I am thinking of specializing in something, but I can do that within family medicine too.

 

I'm used to studying like crazy haha...Definitely am going to have to put that up a couple of notches for med! The USMLE and the Canadian licensing exams though really do scare the heck out of me...

 

StarStrike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think your chances are good no matter where you go, Ireland has a great match rate as well something in the high 70s for the US and Canada. SGU definitely has stronger ties to the US while Ireland mainly sends people to NE residencies in the US. 

 

I think you should wait for Ireland's response, but if you decide SGU you won't be making a mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think your chances are good no matter where you go, Ireland has a great match rate as well something in the high 70s for the US and Canada. SGU definitely has stronger ties to the US while Ireland mainly sends people to NE residencies in the US. 

 

I think you should wait for Ireland's response, but if you decide SGU you won't be making a mistake.

 

Thanks for the advice...I'm definitely waiting on hearing from Ireland...though I won't know how/where to choose if I get accepted to both! Does anybody know how having clerkship in Ireland vs. the US affects your ability to land a North American residency?

 

It seems Ireland has an advantage with quality of life and possibly even education and stigma...however the fact that the Caribbean schools have you spending your last two years of the program in the US is very enticing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice...I'm definitely waiting on hearing from Ireland...though I won't know how/where to choose if I get accepted to both! Does anybody know how having clerkship in Ireland vs. the US affects your ability to land a North American residency?

 

It seems Ireland has an advantage with quality of life and possibly even education and stigma...however the fact that the Caribbean schools have you spending your last two years of the program in the US is very enticing.

 

Its true, its a difficult thing to decide I think both sides have their advantages. I think your chance of landing North American residency is probably pretty similar when you factor it all in together. SGU proclaims a really high match rate but that is only after they pretty much eliminate those who don't have good enough grades.

 

One thing i've noticed is that a select few US programs mainly the top tier ones though (which are pretty much out of reach) are required USCE of 6 months or more or some want 3 months and this will be easy for a Caribbean grad to fulfill but more difficult for an Irish grad to fulfill especially if they want more than 6 months. However when you look at their residents there is nary a IMG or DO in sight haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah that's a good point... Though it would seem to make sense to go the Caribbean route since you have some North American experience under your belt through the program (whereas Ireland wont have as many opportunities).

 

I'm considering SGUs global scholar program, where the first year is spent in Newcastle in the UK instead of Grenada. Anybody have any thoughts or experience with this program?

 

StarStrike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your ultimate goal should focus on getting into a U.S. residency, which would mean SGU is the better choice. While Ireland has been decent in getting back to Canada, it's not something you want to rely on. Also, not sure how the curriculum differences will hinder you in Ireland vs SGU. Carrib schools generally teach to the boards, since the USMLE is the most important factor for residency. I wonder how much extra work you would be giving yourself by doing that ontop of the Irish curicculum.

 

Have you already tried applying to US schools? That should be a consideration too. But it you just want to start and can't wait, then SGU/Saba/Ross is probably safer bet then Ireland. None of them will be easy though. More American experience the better, at least at SGU all your 3/4 will be US based. Also take into account, if you want to do us or canadian electives from an Irish school, the extra travel costs and room/board for the sporadic electives.

 

Edit:

 

You said you applied to us schools. Did you apply early? And to what schools. Your stats would be helpful In providing advice too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your ultimate goal should focus on getting into a U.S. residency, which would mean SGU is the better choice. While Ireland has been decent in getting back to Canada, it's not something you want to rely on. Also, not sure how the curriculum differences will hinder you in Ireland vs SGU. Carrib schools generally teach to the boards, since the USMLE is the most important factor for residency. I wonder how much extra work you would be giving yourself by doing that ontop of the Irish curicculum.

 

Have you already tried applying to US schools? That should be a consideration too. But it you just want to start and can't wait, then SGU/Saba/Ross is probably safer bet then Ireland. None of them will be easy though. More American experience the better, at least at SGU all your 3/4 will be US based. Also take into account, if you want to do us or canadian electives from an Irish school, the extra travel costs and room/board for the sporadic electives.

 

Edit:

 

You said you applied to us schools. Did you apply early? And to what schools. Your stats would be helpful In providing advice too.

 

I did already try applying to medical schools in the US - I submitted my primaries around mid July and the entire application (including reference letters) was completed at the end of August/1st week September (kind of frustrating since it took a while to get the references in and to finish my secondaries). I have no problem with waiting - my concern is that I will not be able to get into somewhere in Canada or the US.

 

My AMCAS GPA I think was around 3.35-3.40 (not very high at all)...The MCAT didn't go quite well for me either (<30) so I don't have that going for me either. I have 3 rejections so far out of 10 schools in the US - I am not expecting much from the other schools I applied to. As an international applicant with a lower GPA and MCAT I think it is almost safe to say it is not happening this cycle. 

 

That is why I am seriously considering the international route. If I can rewrite the MCAT (I guess with the new one now) and do really well, I could consider reapplying to the US. Similarly, that may open up options elsewhere in Canada outside of UBC (Queens, possibly UofT). Though getting in the 90th percentile and above will be very difficult especially with full time work, continuing education (I am a practicing pharmacist), and extracurricular commitments.

 

Thanks,

 

StarStrike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah that's a good point... Though it would seem to make sense to go the Caribbean route since you have some North American experience under your belt through the program (whereas Ireland wont have as many opportunities).

 

I'm considering SGUs global scholar program, where the first year is spent in Newcastle in the UK instead of Grenada. Anybody have any thoughts or experience with this program?

 

StarStrike

 

I'm not too sure about the facilities in Grenada, if you feel like the facilities are really poor, then maybe the program is useful, but there aren't any real advantages to the program itself, it might even be better to stick to the traditional SGU program just to give program directors less to worry about. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did already try applying to medical schools in the US - I submitted my primaries around mid July and the entire application (including reference letters) was completed at the end of August/1st week September (kind of frustrating since it took a while to get the references in and to finish my secondaries). I have no problem with waiting - my concern is that I will not be able to get into somewhere in Canada or the US.

 

My AMCAS GPA I think was around 3.35-3.40 (not very high at all)...The MCAT didn't go quite well for me either (<30) so I don't have that going for me either. I have 3 rejections so far out of 10 schools in the US - I am not expecting much from the other schools I applied to. As an international applicant with a lower GPA and MCAT I think it is almost safe to say it is not happening this cycle. 

 

That is why I am seriously considering the international route. If I can rewrite the MCAT (I guess with the new one now) and do really well, I could consider reapplying to the US. Similarly, that may open up options elsewhere in Canada outside of UBC (Queens, possibly UofT). Though getting in the 90th percentile and above will be very difficult especially with full time work, continuing education (I am a practicing pharmacist), and extracurricular commitments.

 

Thanks,

 

StarStrike

how many years out are you from pharm school? Maybe look into further training( I think there's a 1 year pharm residency) to become a hospitalist before heading abroad? But if medicine is still the only option for you, If you can nail the mcat, you'd be better off for the U.S. It all depends on personal circumstance. You could make a 3-5 year plan of improving your profile while continuing to being a well paid pharmacist and see where you land on the ubc/u.s. Admissions scale and reevaluate. You can spread out the academic increases over more time and not limit yourself to a shorter time frame.

 

Another thing to consider is if you can go part-time for work for a month or two and nail the mcat out. That is more than enough time to get a mid 30s score, or whatever the new mcat scale is. Time management is key and high yield topics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I think if you can't improve your profile enough for acceptance to the US within 2 years you should just go abroad. Its not as bad as people make it out to be assuming you work incredibly hard, are willing to not get into a competitive speciality. A 3-5 year plan is way too long, for someone who already can be considered a non-trad, doing a career change especially into a field with such a long training time like medicine, time is a valuable commodity.

 

A lot of people write and re-write the MCAT and score the same or lower, if you did your absolute best on the MCAT once and you can't succeed, its questionable whether or not you should try again unless you know you can devote more time to study than you did previously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how many years out are you from pharm school? Maybe look into further training( I think there's a 1 year pharm residency) to become a hospitalist before heading abroad? But if medicine is still the only option for you, If you can nail the mcat, you'd be better off for the U.S. It all depends on personal circumstance. You could make a 3-5 year plan of improving your profile while continuing to being a well paid pharmacist and see where you land on the ubc/u.s. Admissions scale and reevaluate. You can spread out the academic increases over more time and not limit yourself to a shorter time frame.

 

Another thing to consider is if you can go part-time for work for a month or two and nail the mcat out. That is more than enough time to get a mid 30s score, or whatever the new mcat scale is. Time management is key and high yield topics

 

I am a recent graduate - not more than a year or two back. I have definitely thought about additional training - it is not something I am looking to do. Being a hospitalist would be great, but my interest goes beyond drug monitoring, making drug recommendations, etc. There is an option for me to upgrade my bachelors to a PharmD - though I don't believe they have made this clear yet.

 

I am not sure if I would want to go back for more school to upgrade my GPA - I would have to go for a masters or take on another undergraduate degree. It doesn't make a lot of sense at this point as I've already done an extra postgraduate year and have ~245 credits under my belt - it will take many credits with very high marks to even get a 0.5%-1% increase in overall GPA. Over my last 45 credits I managed to increase my overall GPA by ~2.5% (based on ~90% average). 

 

Studying for the MCAT is something I have thought about - but I am not sure if it is worth it. I have taken the old MCAT 3 times - the last time I did it while working part time over the summer. I am not sure what it is - I did worse on the last exam than I did before (my highest mark was 9-9-10).

 

Honestly, I think if you can't improve your profile enough for acceptance to the US within 2 years you should just go abroad. Its not as bad as people make it out to be assuming you work incredibly hard, are willing to not get into a competitive speciality. A 3-5 year plan is way too long, for someone who already can be considered a non-trad, doing a career change especially into a field with such a long training time like medicine, time is a valuable commodity.

 

A lot of people write and re-write the MCAT and score the same or lower, if you did your absolute best on the MCAT once and you can't succeed, its questionable whether or not you should try again unless you know you can devote more time to study than you did previously.

 

I am an extremely hard worker - but I guess the prospect of going abroad really scares me. On on hand, I am up for the challenge, but it makes me uncomfortable that there is a pretty high chance that I may fail/not end up where I want to be.

 

Some of my friends have recommended doing a special masters program (1 year) in the US...though I'm not too sure how that works. Apparently there are some programs that pretty much guarantee you acceptance to medical school? (sounds too good to be true to me - I would think they may offer seats to the top X students...??)

 

Fair but maybe its my uninformed thought, but if you peak at a low 20s MCAT, then how are you going to fair on usmle?

Definitely a fair point. I have thought about this as well - I am not sure how exactly the USMLE is...but if I have had a hard time nailing the MCAT, how hard will the USMLE be? The people I have talked to have tried to allay my fears by telling me that they are very different exams with different ways of testing information, but again I have had that at the back of my head. Maybe it is just a weakness in my test taking ability, I don't know. It is (in large part at least) not because I don't know my stuff (I work very hard...I normally don't get blindsided but I find when I'm choosing between two answers I tend to choose the wrong one...haha maybe short/long answer is more my game...).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a recent graduate - not more than a year or two back. I have definitely thought about additional training - it is not something I am looking to do. Being a hospitalist would be great, but my interest goes beyond drug monitoring, making drug recommendations, etc. There is an option for me to upgrade my bachelors to a PharmD - though I don't believe they have made this clear yet.

 

I am not sure if I would want to go back for more school to upgrade my GPA - I would have to go for a masters or take on another undergraduate degree. It doesn't make a lot of sense at this point as I've already done an extra postgraduate year and have ~245 credits under my belt - it will take many credits with very high marks to even get a 0.5%-1% increase in overall GPA. Over my last 45 credits I managed to increase my overall GPA by ~2.5% (based on ~90% average). 

 

Studying for the MCAT is something I have thought about - but I am not sure if it is worth it. I have taken the old MCAT 3 times - the last time I did it while working part time over the summer. I am not sure what it is - I did worse on the last exam than I did before (my highest mark was 9-9-10).

 

 

I am an extremely hard worker - but I guess the prospect of going abroad really scares me. On on hand, I am up for the challenge, but it makes me uncomfortable that there is a pretty high chance that I may fail/not end up where I want to be.

 

Some of my friends have recommended doing a special masters program (1 year) in the US...though I'm not too sure how that works. Apparently there are some programs that pretty much guarantee you acceptance to medical school? (sounds too good to be true to me - I would think they may offer seats to the top X students...??)

 

Definitely a fair point. I have thought about this as well - I am not sure how exactly the USMLE is...but if I have had a hard time nailing the MCAT, how hard will the USMLE be? The people I have talked to have tried to allay my fears by telling me that they are very different exams with different ways of testing information, but again I have had that at the back of my head. Maybe it is just a weakness in my test taking ability, I don't know. It is (in large part at least) not because I don't know my stuff (I work very hard...I normally don't get blindsided but I find when I'm choosing between two answers I tend to choose the wrong one...haha maybe short/long answer is more my game...).

 

I just read a study recently that said there is a 0.6 correlation between your BS score in MCAT (which was the best predictor of your USMLE score) and your USMLE step 1 score.

 

The USMLE tests your knowledge, its a test you can study for. The more you know the better you do. People who go to the Caribbean even pull off a 250+ on the step 1 sometimes. If your MCAT is below 25 then I would be more concerned, but it also depends on how much time you are willing to devote. In medical school at least you won't be working full time and I assume you will drop all other commitments to study. If you did that, you should be able to score decently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I still encourage you to try and improve yourself for a US based school, but if your going to go abroad stick with SGU and the likes over europe. The carribean model is focused on the USMLE, where as in europe you'll have to do alot of it on your own(which you will anyways) but it helps that alot of the carrib schools teach to the boards in preparation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...