Chances Of Getting Into Med School In Usa

[denis05]

Long story short, I do not have much hope in getting into a Canadian Medical school considering how there is only a handful of medical universities in Canada and would like an opinion on my chances of getting into a US medical school. I am finishing up my second year, and I am planning on taking the MACT next summer.

 

Major: Kinesiology BSC

GPA: 3.83

US GPA: 3.76
Course load: 4/5 (full time student, not full course load)
Extra curricular: Own my own construction company since 2012 and have a multiple employees - the business is still running while I am studying, hence the reason for my course load not being full.

 

I am still planning on applying to Canadian schools but am more hopeful of the United States. Any thoughts?

[StriveP]

It's impossible to tell unless you have your MCAT scores. With decent scores you have a shot. Some US schools also care which school you went for undergrad, UofT and Mcgill are looked more highly compared to others schools in that case.

[denis05]

I was under the impression that the USA was oblivious to reputations of universities in Canada...
 

On another note, a classmate's girlfriend called a few schools and apparently said that an average GPA of 3.2 was competitive for Canadian applicants because the education system is "harder" in Canada - do not know how much to believe that.

Also, would my extracurricular be of great help to me in the application process or would not even matter because of the profession difference - I am under the impression that it would help because of time management and leadership qualities involved in running your own business and attending school at the same time

[JohnGrisham]

Keep up your grades, and score a strong MCAT score and you have a fair shot at USMD and USDO schools. I wouldn't rule out Canadian schools since you are only in 2nd year.

Your work experience and running your own company are definitely assets to your application - i had similiar experience in construction managment and helped show maturity and stand out from typical applicants.

BUT the big thing for the US is to get some clincal experience, weather it be shadowing or getting clinical exposure in a hospital. It is very much expected.

You will definitely have to work on getting some other ECs, in mentorship maybe, clinical, leadership, working with underserved populations are all areas you could explore.

 

 

I was under the impression that the USA was oblivious to reputations of universities in Canada...
 

On another note, a classmate's girlfriend called a few schools and apparently said that an average GPA of 3.2 was competitive for Canadian applicants because the education system is "harder" in Canada - do not know how much to believe that.

Also, would my extracurricular be of great help to me in the application process or would not even matter because of the profession difference - I am under the impression that it would help because of time management and leadership qualities involved in running your own business and attending school at the same time

As for school reputation - that is nonsense, most schools don't give 2 craps about what Canadian school you went to. They don't know a lick of difference except for a big name that they may have heard of - but that won't make or break you at all. It's the GPA, MCAT score and experiences you have that determine your success to get an interview. And as always a little luck.

And no, a 3.2 GPA is not competitive, at all. Canadians are expected to exceed the averaged posted on MSAR for USMD schools. Similiar for USDO schools.

Maybe if you had a 2.x, 2.x then 3 years of 4.0 in upper level sciences with a high MCAT, then a 3.2 "could" be competitive, coupled with amazing ECs that interest them. US schools acknowledge rising trends. But your GPA is strong and won't be the problem- it is up to your MCAT and improving your ECS. Luckily you have a few years to improve those sections, so you are in good shape!

[StriveP]

I was under the impression that the USA was oblivious to reputations of universities in Canada...

 

On another note, a classmate's girlfriend called a few schools and apparently said that an average GPA of 3.2 was competitive for Canadian applicants because the education system is "harder" in Canada - do not know how much to believe that.

 

Also, would my extracurricular be of great help to me in the application process or would not even matter because of the profession difference - I am under the impression that it would help because of time management and leadership qualities involved in running your own business and attending school at the same time

Like I said, unless we know your MCAT scores it doesn't matter what your ECs are. That's an honest answer.

And no, some US schools do look at top schools within Canada highly such as Uoft, McGill, and maybe UBC. Anything other than those 3 are treated equally. I know this because I applied to ivy league and mid-tier medical schools in the US. 

[bearded frog]

They also care which school you went for undergrad, UofT and Mcgill are looked upon highly compared to others schools.

 

This isn't true, or if it is only matters for schools like Hopkins or Harvard, or matters extremely little.

 

Edit: I did my undergrad at a Canadian university that didn't have a medical school and was accepted in the states so YMMV.

[StriveP]

This isn't true, or if it is only matters for schools like Hopkins or Harvard, or matters extremely little.

 

Edit: I did my undergrad at a Canadian university that didn't have a medical school and was accepted in the states so YMMV.

 

I called admissions office for every school I applied to in the US, most of them said they do look at it more favourably. Then again, the ones I applied to 4/6 were Ivy league schools. And what's your point with the statement you edit? That has nothing to do with anything.

[denis05]

Keep up your grades, and score a strong MCAT score and you have a fair shot at USMD and USDO schools. I wouldn't rule out Canadian schools since you are only in 2nd year.

 

Your work experience and running your own company are definitely assets to your application - i had similiar experience in construction managment and helped show maturity and stand out from typical applicants.

 

BUT the big thing for the US is to get some clincal experience, weather it be shadowing or getting clinical exposure in a hospital. It is very much expected.

 

You will definitely have to work on getting some other ECs, in mentorship maybe, clinical, leadership, working with underserved populations are all areas you could explore.

 

 

As for school reputation - that is nonsense, most schools don't give 2 craps about what Canadian school you went to. They don't know a lick of difference except for a big name that they may have heard of - but that won't make or break you at all. It's the GPA, MCAT score and experiences you have that determine your success to get an interview. And as always a little luck.

 

And no, a 3.2 GPA is not competitive, at all. Canadians are expected to exceed the averaged posted on MSAR for USMD schools. Similiar for USDO schools.

 

Maybe if you had a 2.x, 2.x then 3 years of 4.0 in upper level sciences with a high MCAT, then a 3.2 "could" be competitive, coupled with amazing ECs that interest them. US schools acknowledge rising trends. But your GPA is strong and won't be the problem- it is up to your MCAT and improving your ECS. Luckily you have a few years to improve those sections, so you are in good shape!

 Thanks for the advice! I think ill opt for a few hours a week at the local hospital, I would go above and beyond that but it would just wreck my schedule with work. My initial concern was the ECs, everybody that I have spoken to is/has been doing research or shadowing for multiple years now, whereas I no clinical exposure and thought that these individuals would have a huge advantage over me.

 

 

[JohnGrisham]

I called admissions office for every school I applied to in the US, most of them said they do look at it more favourably. Then again, the ones I applied to 4/6 were Ivy league schools. And what's your point with the statement you edit? That has nothing to do with anything.

beardedfrog's point resonates well, since it likely only matters(very little) at ivy league schools - there is a confounding effect. If you are going to be a competitive applicant at those schools, you will have top notch ECs and research regardless, so if you have that it won't matter if you went to UBC/UofT or Brock. From my discussions with some US Adcoms, they stated that it only comes into consideration very minute decision making, such that they may not take your 4.0  for as much credit  or give benefit of the doubt if it is from some relatively unknown school, if say you don't have a top notch MCAT score to couple it with. Even that is very rare and an after thought.

 

But if you have a high MCAT, coupled with your solid GPA from an "unknown" school - then they couldn't care less. 

 

Canadian school prestige is not a very big factor at all, compared to US schools that are a known entity for US adcoms.

 

 

[JohnGrisham]

I called admissions office for every school I applied to in the US, most of them said they do look at it more favourably. Then again, the ones I applied to 4/6 were Ivy league schools. And what's your point with the statement you edit? That has nothing to do with anything.

I believe beardedfrogs point, was that he was accepted to a US school coming from an "unknown" canadian school. To show it isn't a deciding factor of achievability of US admissions.

[武田信玄]

I think Canadian schools' prestige matters more if you want to apply for US residency, not too much when you apply for US med schools.

[Wartortle]

Well strive did mention that he/she was talking, majority wise, about the top tier schools. How much of this matters = we honestly will never know. In mid-tier schools and lower it might be important in things like a tie-breaker between applicants with very similar stats. But remember US use the LizzyM scoring method so a 3.2 doesn't rule you out it only will gives more detours on your journey.

[denis05]

^ LizzyM scoring just brought me to a whole new world, thanks!

[武田信玄]

Don't think too much about LizzyM. Some admin committee member openly said on SDN a while ago that LizzyM is only one part of the pre-interview screening equation.

[medgoals33]

It's impossible to tell unless you have your MCAT scores. With decent scores you have a shot. Some US schools also care which school you went for undergrad, UofT and Mcgill are looked more highly compared to others schools in that case.

Hi I was wondering what your opinion on my application would be. I am planning on applying to USMD schools this summer right when they open with the following stats:

 

3.85 cGPA, 3.85 sGPA, 505 MCAT (127 PS/125 CARS/128 BS/ 125 Pysch&Soc)

 

I also think my cGPA would be higher because right now I've included all lab courses (my undergrad school had separate lab courses for the lectures). Do you think I would be able to get in with those stats? I also have acceptances to Irish medical schools as a back up option, but I want to exhaust the USMD option first before I consider going abroad. Thanks for the help in advance, I really appreciate it!

[soporific]

I can back up the fact that UofT and McGill will give a slight bump in the admissions process (especially for Top 10 US medical schools).

 

Source: I interviewed at these places too.

[JohnGrisham]

Hi I was wondering what your opinion on my application would be. I am planning on applying to USMD schools this summer right when they open with the following stats:

 

3.85 cGPA, 3.85 sGPA, 505 MCAT (127 PS/125 CARS/128 BS/ 125 Pysch&Soc)

 

I also think my cGPA would be higher because right now I've included all lab courses (my undergrad school had separate lab courses for the lectures). Do you think I would be able to get in with those stats? I also have acceptances to Irish medical schools as a back up option, but I want to exhaust the USMD option first before I consider going abroad. Thanks for the help in advance, I really appreciate it!

Mcats a bit low but worth a shot. Do you plan on retaking?

 

I would apply to USDO programs. Your GPA should offset your low MCAT for them. Definitely a much better/safer option than doing to Ireland.

[medgoals33]

Mcats a bit low but worth a shot. Do you plan on retaking?

 

I would apply to USDO programs. Your GPA should offset your low MCAT for them. Definitely a much better/safer option than doing to Ireland.i 

 

Hi, yes I do plan on re-taking the MCAT this summer in July, but want to apply to USMD schools right when they open in June to give myself the best chance (but will notify them of the re-write). Are USDO schools better? I've heard it's not as easy to get back to Canada and you face issues landing jobs with a DO degree. A friend of mine in Ireland has shown me match statistics from her university (Limerick) and they seem very promising!

[JohnGrisham]

Do some research and you'll find your answers. USMD>USDO>>>>> than all the other IMG programs (barring special considerations like major scholarhsips, or citizenships).

 

Match lists can be misleading. Many of my IMG friends just matched this past friday in the US...but the problems you dont see are how few interviews IMGs get, the fact they have to be better than their US counterparts for much less options...and then most of the programs they do get matched to are the middle of nowhere, IMG mills that most american grads wouldn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Sure they matched, and at the end of the day they'll be licensed and it won't matter too much...but fellowship options limited, amongst other sacraficies of going to undesirable locations/programs, and many others.

 

Being a US grad for the US match on average is always better. Once you leave Canada, unless its USMD, the Canadian match is tough all around and your best shot is the American match then returning later..

 

I also have a 4th year friend at limerick and there is more to the match list then you see. But I dont want to air laundry.

[_ _]

Hi, yes I do plan on re-taking the MCAT this summer in July, but want to apply to USMD schools right when they open in June to give myself the best chance (but will notify them of the re-write). Are USDO schools better? I've heard it's not as easy to get back to Canada and you face issues landing jobs with a DO degree. A friend of mine in Ireland has shown me match statistics from her university (Limerick) and they seem very promising!

You would be considered with International Graduates (IMGs) in most provinces in Canada if you went to a DO school. This would make it very, very, unlikely that you'd match in Canada. Same with Iimerick. 

 

Either way, you'd likely have to apply for US residencies and hope that works and you get a visa. It's a lot of money to gamble, personally I wouldn't be comfortable with it, but some people are and that's a personal choice. You just need to be aware of what you're getting yourself into. 

 

And take the matching rates on Irish/carib school's websites with a grain of salt. They are usually carefully manipulated.....the matching rates of IMGs into canada is not very high and I see it getting worse, not better

[indefatigable]

Do some research and you'll find your answers. USMD>USDO>>>>> than all the other IMG programs (barring special considerations like major scholarhsips, or citizenships).

  Some places in the US seem to put MD (including caribbean) above DO.  Except for the high costs and distance from US, not sure if places like Australia or UK are considered inferior to DO.  

 

 

And take the matching rates on Irish/carib school's websites with a grain of salt. They are usually carefully manipulated.....the matching rates of IMGs into canada is not very high and I see it getting worse, not better

The success stories I've seen in the Caribbean tend to be profiles of lower gpa s (hence no Canadian school) but relatively strong MCATs.  MLE success is correlated to the MCAT. 

 

Doing well (whatever school you are in) will impress people and having a profile that is not suitable for Ontario for example could actually work abroad, but it is expensive.  Also, it is true that coming back to Canada is difficult, but except for places that are not generally considered geographically desirable a lot of Canadian residency positions are competitive even for CMGs.  

[JohnGrisham]

Careibean is not the US. And for the small handful that may take carrib MD and not DO there is literally hundreds more that filter out non-american MD/DOs. Lol that's funny.

[JohnGrisham]

Australia is no comparison to USDO. You dont have back up residencies as easily. UK is definitely a great option.

 

Again if the goal is matching US, a US school is best. How can anyone still argue this these days? Sure there are positive anecdotes but also many poor ones too.

 

These discussions are never about quality of schools but ability to.match well. Australian and Irish schools are great and have been around longer than Canadian schools for example. But politically they are unfavourable due to cost, lack of back up residency options for foreigners etc etc.

 

UK is a much better option than Ireland and Australia, because they have gauranteed residency for their grads. And they have strict regulations on how many internationals they can take, unlike the latter which simply prey on internationals for increased tuition fees. So chances are if you got into a UK program you probably could have gotten into a Canadian or american program with a few tweaks(unless straight outta HS)

[indefatigable]

Careibean is not the US. And for the small handful that may take carrib MD and not DO there is literally hundreds more that filter out non-american MD/DOs. Lol that's funny.

 

Ok - must have been atypical.

 

Australia is no comparison to USDO. You dont have back up residencies as easily. UK is definitely a great option.

 

Again if the goal is matching US, a US school is best. How can anyone still argue this these days? Sure there are positive anecdotes but also many poor ones too.

 

These discussions are never about quality of schools but ability to.match well. Australian and Irish schools are great and have been around longer than Canadian schools for example. But politically they are unfavourable due to cost, lack of back up residency options for foreigners etc etc.

 

UK is a much better option than Ireland and Australia, because they have gauranteed residency for their grads. And they have strict regulations on how many internationals they can take, unlike the latter which simply prey on internationals for increased tuition fees. So chances are if you got into a UK program you probably could have gotten into a Canadian or american program with a few tweaks(unless straight outta HS)

Good point - quality vs ability to match - I think I was referring to DO vs australia in Canada.

[JohnGrisham]

Ok - must have been atypical.

 

Good point - quality vs ability to match - I think I was referring to DO vs australia in Canada.

Yeah. For example, schools like Ross and SGU have had pretty decent match rates for their Canadian IMGs in the US. But the devil lies in the details..since most of the FM/IM spots that their students match to...are at programs that take primarily IMGs in states/locations that americans wouldn't rank very highly. Or in programs that are known to work their residents to the bone.. or have less in the way of quality of training etc. Sure some match to decent places, but on average the quality of the matches are much lower from a multi-factorial perspective compared to their american MD/DO counterparts.

 

But of course, if you have zero issue with doing FM/IM in rural america, or the likes - then its sort of a moot point right. As long as you get the training and become licensed, it generally won't matter. But if you want to do things like academia, or go on to do a strong fellowship, etc etc...well then it does start to matter, and matter a lot. Not to mention constantly having to move around to random places etc etc.

 

This is all specifically for the US Match.

 

For the Canadian match, it doesnt really matter ; IMG = IMG = IMG.  For BC USDOs are still considered CMGs, and last year a few USDOs matched to UBC as CMGs. To be honest, i'm not actually convinced that USDO having CMG status is actually beneficial or not. I actually think they one would do much better in the IMG stream as a USDO...because there are 40+ spots secured for primary care(FM) at UBC for IMGs.    The reason I say this is, because at UBC, the demand for FM in the CMG stream is HUGE. Many very strong UBC med graduates for example didn't end up matching to UBC for FM  and had to go to Alberta or Ontario for FM.  So when you're a non-UBC student(I.e. a USDO or USMD) trying to go for the BC CMG FM spots - it's actually super competitive. 

 

I believe there was a USMD poster on these forums that went unmatched last year but matched this year in the CMG category to one of the really competitive UBC FM CMG spots(I'm guessing St. Pauls).  So its obviously not impossible, but the competition is there.