Ethical Questions

[marauder4life]

Hey everyone,

 

I have been thinking about these two very similar questions, which may come up in interviews, but can't seem to come to a satisfactory answer. I would appreciate it if you guys could tell me what you think would be the most appropriate final action/decision and why.

 

1. This is the very typical cheating scenario - i.e. you see someone/friend cheating on a test, what do you do?

- issue: cheating is morally wrong and is not fair to all the other students who studied. If you tell on this person, you are essentially creating some immediate problems for them and also ruining your relationship with them.

- approach: talk privately to the student first (show concern, be respectful, don't be judgmental) and encourage them to talk to the TA themselves and come clean to the TA.

If the student refuses, make them realize the negative consequences of cheating (notice on transcript, looks bad when you apply to grad/professional school, etc). If they are still not comfortable telling the TA, make them promise they won't cheat again and give them one more chance.

I feel that everyone makes mistake so I would give them a chance and keep an eye on them to make sure this doesn't happen again. And if it does, then I would repeat the same conversation with them, but this time also go talk to the TA myself (if they refuse to talk to the TA like before).

 

(My question is if it is appropriate to give them a second chance? Personally I think it should be ok because people make mistakes. Now if this was some sort of a licensing exam, I don't think there's any room for second chances. Is this ok guys? I don't want to sound like I am hypocritical, dishonest and think cheating is ok because I don't lol. But at the same time, I don't want to be too harsh and tell on a student the first time I catch them cheat on a midterm).

 

 

2. Similar to scenario #1 - You work at a retail store and your coworker comes in drunk.

So to summarize my response, I would basically ensure that I take my coworker in the employees room as I wouldn't want to create a scene in front of the customers (Embarrassing for the employee and also bad reputation for the company). Because I am on duty in this scenario, my priority would be to arrange a ride home for the employee so I can get back to work, while also ensuring the employee's safety. Afterwards though when the employee is sober and I am off work, I would like to talk to him/her and see what happened and remind them about professionalism, etc. 

 

(My question is am I suppose to be reporting this issue to the manager or not? Or should I give this person a second chance, and if they come in to work drunk again, then I go tell my manager?)

 

Thank you everyone in advance for your input! My main concern, as you guys might have already figured out, is whether or not to tell on a person when I am not the person of authority? 

[decentcigars]

Second chance sounds good to me- shows that you're compassionate, understand that people make mistakes, and frankly not a tattle-tail lol. The only thing I would add is perhaps try to engage the person on WHY they feel they had to cheat/come to work drunk. Try and address the underlying causes of these actions to see if they can be prevented/dealth with.

[ims316]

The only thing i wonder in these scenarios is if letst say you show compassion, do the interviewers assume "this guy is probably goinng to bend ethical rules" instead of "he is compassionate". You know? Like if i say i would not be willing to turn them to authorities as a physician I would be too soft

[decentcigars]

The only thing i wonder in these scenarios is if letst say you show compassion, do the interviewers assume "this guy is probably goinng to bend ethical rules" instead of "he is compassionate". You know? Like if i say i would not be willing to turn them to authorities as a physician I would be too soft

 

Where are you bending the rules? You are not in the position of authority in these scenarios-it would be different if you were say the teacher or store manager, where part of your role is in fact enforcing rules/punishment. But since you are not, you should be compassionate and try to understand the causes of these incidences. Its also different if say this is the first time or an ongoing pattern.

[marauder4life]

Second chance sounds good to me- shows that you're compassionate, understand that people make mistakes, and frankly not a tattle-tail lol. The only thing I would add is perhaps try to engage the person on WHY they feel they had to cheat/come to work drunk. Try and address the underlying causes of these actions to see if they can be prevented/dealth with.

 

thanks, that was very helpful

[AIsForApple]

When approaching these questions I would try and see through to what they're "really" asking. The question about cheating on a test is really asking whether or not you would act as a whistleblower if you caught another physician acting unethically, and the question about a coworker showing up drunk is really a question about dealing with a negligent (??? don't think this is quite the right word) physician. Essentially these questions are trying to gauge whether or not you can act professionally. Usually thinking about the questions like this helps me come up with something intelligent to say.

 

Personally, for the question about cheating, I'm not sure how I would feel about giving a second chance. It is the compassionate thing to do, yes, but in my mind it is not your place to decide whether or not a cheater is punished. I would probably choose to report him if he doesn't come clean himself (maybe do so anonymously), and let a disciplinary committee decide the outcome. If he could give a compelling argument to me as to why he felt it necessary to cheat, then he should be able to make the same plea to the committee. If not, well then he got what he deserved. Obviously I wouldn't state this quite so bluntly, but it's probably the approach I would pick to defend after exploring my options. By giving this answer, I feel like I'm telling the interviewer that I would abide by the guidelines and principles set out by the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Don't quote me on this, but I believe there is a huge push within medicine as a profession to protect and encourage whistleblowers, so I feel like most interviewers would/should agree with this point of view.

[marauder4life]

When approaching these questions I would try and see through to what they're "really" asking. The question about cheating on a test is really asking whether or not you would act as a whistleblower if you caught another physician acting unethically, and the question about a coworker showing up drunk is really a question about dealing with a negligent (??? don't think this is quite the right word) physician. Essentially these questions are trying to gauge whether or not you can act professionally. Usually thinking about the questions like this helps me come up with something intelligent to say.

 

Personally, for the question about cheating, I'm not sure how I would feel about giving a second chance. It is the compassionate thing to do, yes, but in my mind it is not your place to decide whether or not a cheater is punished. I would probably choose to report him if he doesn't come clean himself (maybe do so anonymously), and let a disciplinary committee decide the outcome. If he could give a compelling argument to me as to why he felt it necessary to cheat, then he should be able to make the same plea to the committee. If not, well then he got what he deserved. Obviously I wouldn't state this quite so bluntly, but it's probably the approach I would pick to defend after exploring my options. Essentially by giving this answer, I feel like I'm telling the interviewer that I would abide by the guidelines and principles set out by the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Don't quote me on this, but I believe there is a huge push within medicine as a profession to protect and encourage whistleblowers, so I feel like most interviewers would/should agree with this point of view.

 

You have brought up really good points. 

 

I was thinking about anonymously reporting the person also. But doesn't doing so mean that I didn't make an effort to understand why the person might have done such a thing in the first place? Because if I go talk to this person to understand what's causing this behaviour and the next thing you know they get contacted by the TA, they will know that I was behind all of this.

 

Or are you saying that because I don't have any authority in the scenarios, I am not in a position to go talk to them in the first place to see what's going on. 

[AIsForApple]

You have brought up really good points. 

 

I was thinking about anonymously reporting the person also. But doesn't doing so mean that I didn't make an effort to understand why the person might have done such a thing in the first place? Because if I go talk to this person to understand what's causing this behaviour and the next thing you know they get contacted by the TA, they will know that I was behind all of this.

 

Or are you saying that because I don't have any authority in the scenarios, I am not in a position to go talk to them in the first place to see what's going on. 

 

You can still display compassion/empathy in your discussion of the alternative choices you have. Remember that the interview is less about the answer you give and more about how you arrive at the answer. It is a dilemma. By definition, there is no single satisfactory answer to it. At the very least I would discuss the alternatives and their consequences, and then pick a point and defend it. I've outlined the choice I would make and why, and if you feel differently, well then by all means go with your own opinion on the matter.

[marauder4life]

You can still display compassion/empathy in your discussion of the alternative choices you have. Remember that the interview is less about the answer you give and more about how you arrive at the answer. It is a dilemma. By definition, there is no single satisfactory answer to it. At the very least I would discuss the alternatives and their consequences, and then pick a point and defend it. I've outlined the choice I would make and why, and if you feel differently, well then by all means go with your own opinion on the matter.

 

Yep, I was just trying to understand your perspective. 

[ims316]

I wonder if how well you know the person should make a difference in how you respond. Should, say knowing the person as a friend, influence my response or should I respond the same way to everyone?

[marauder4life]

I wonder if how well you know the person should make a difference in how you respond. Should, say knowing the person as a friend, influence my response or should I respond the same way to everyone?

 

I feel like it shouldn't change your response because you want to act objectively. Of course, knowing a person well may make your decision harder but I think best bet is to act the same way. 

[AIsForApple]

Yep, I was just trying to understand your perspective. 

Yeah sorry, I was going to elaborate, but I had to rush that response because I had to run. In my mind, I would talk to him first to encourage him to come clean on my own. Say it will only be worse if he's found out later, ask him why he cheated in the first place, was there something going on in his personal life that prevented him from studying and compelled him to cheat to make the grade, etc. etc. Ultimately though if he is adamant not to confess, I would report him anonymously, and yeah, he will probably figure out it was me, but that is a consequence I would have to live with. I don't think there is really a way to play both sides and come out unscathed on this one.

 

Regarding the friend vs stranger thing, I would only say the friendship matters because it is telling of the persons character. Hopefully you make good judgement calls when choosing your friends, so in my mind it is more likely that the the person would've cheated out of desperation or ignorance (maybe it's a plagiarism case or something). Other than that I would still choose the same course of action ultimately

[decentcigars]

honestly, this just my opinion, but I would think reporting anonymously would be the worst way to do it. If you are going to report him, you should take responsibility for your accusation and act as an accountable witness. Anonymous tip just sounds like a snitch.

[marauder4life]

honestly, this just my opinion, but I would think reporting anonymously would be the worst way to do it. If you are going to report him, you should take responsibility for your accusation and act as an accountable witness. Anonymous tip just sounds like a snitch.

 

Sorry, when I said I was also considering reporting the person anonymously...what I meant to say was to ask the TA to not disclose my name to the student. This is just a way to protect yourself as much possible if you go this route. 

 

I know, I didn't word it properly at all before :$. 

[makingfetchhappen]

When approaching these questions I would try and see through to what they're "really" asking. The question about cheating on a test is really asking whether or not you would act as a whistleblower if you caught another physician acting unethically, and the question about a coworker showing up drunk is really a question about dealing with a negligent (??? don't think this is quite the right word) physician. Essentially these questions are trying to gauge whether or not you can act professionally. Usually thinking about the questions like this helps me come up with something intelligent to say.

 

Personally, for the question about cheating, I'm not sure how I would feel about giving a second chance. It is the compassionate thing to do, yes, but in my mind it is not your place to decide whether or not a cheater is punished. I would probably choose to report him if he doesn't come clean himself (maybe do so anonymously), and let a disciplinary committee decide the outcome. If he could give a compelling argument to me as to why he felt it necessary to cheat, then he should be able to make the same plea to the committee. If not, well then he got what he deserved. Obviously I wouldn't state this quite so bluntly, but it's probably the approach I would pick to defend after exploring my options. By giving this answer, I feel like I'm telling the interviewer that I would abide by the guidelines and principles set out by the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Don't quote me on this, but I believe there is a huge push within medicine as a profession to protect and encourage whistleblowers, so I feel like most interviewers would/should agree with this point of view.

Totally agree that this is why they are asking. But, this is why I hate this question.

 

The analogy is not apt at all!

 

If you were a doctor, and you saw another doctor acting unethically, you are pretty much duty bound to report them. Also, you can call the college and ask them anonymously what is the best thing to do. 

 

Yes the stakes are higher (a student failing vs. another doctor facing discipline), but it's almost easier when you are in that position of responsibility. It's like "sorry, my hands are tied, I have to do this".

 

Of course, you can try to work out certain problems privately without reporting the person. The example above about coming to work drunk. If another doctor came to work drunk or high, you would need to figure out what was going on. Maybe he found out that day that his wife was cheating on him, and this was a one-off thing. But, maybe he has a problem and his patients' interests are at risk. You would need to do some investigating, and if you thought it was the former, you could talk to your friend and keep an eye on him without reporting him. I would still make an anonymous call to the college to make sure that this approach was acceptable of course. If they disagreed, I would follow through on reporting my peer. It would not be pretty, but you do what you have to do. Your obligations to your patients and the public are paramount and that is the end of the story.

 

With the other examples above, the same considerations are not at play. I really dislike cheaters, but would I report them? I don't know. Sure they are compromising the fairness of the system, and I would want to stop them. I might try to take other steps to stop them than reporting them. It's much more of a grey area and I feel like schools asking this question are almost asking students to lie.

 

Would you really tell on your cheating friend, really? Probably not. Would you really report the negligent doctor working with you? I hope so.

[marauder4life]

Thanks guys for your input! I didn't realize what they were trying to get at with this question probably because, like the above poster mentioned, the cheating example is not the best analogy for a doctor acting unethically.

[makingfetchhappen]

Sorry that my response is not actually useful, just my thoughts on the subject. 

I think it is a fairly common question that you need to be prepared for. I don't think my response is a good one. That is, basically tell them that it's a stupid question, lol. It's a question that is fairly common I think. So maybe search this forum more and also the American forums and Google to get some more insight. Post back if you find anything good!

I think that adcoms are trying to gauge something that I believe myself: that morality is what you do when no one is looking. However, to me, that doesn't mean that I immediately run to the authorities whenever something is off, it means that I think about it carefully and what is at stake.

A really difficult situation that doctors will face is what to do once you have made a mistake. Perhaps the mistake is innocent and understandable. It still may be something that you need to bring to another's attention. You may need to tell the doctors you work with, your insurer, or your governing body. You may think that it will come to nothing, but there may be unforeseen consequences that are addressed by knowing. 

This is really not fun and really not pretty. How do they screen for future docs who have a sense of duty and morality in these cases? I don't know. But, I don't think the "cheating scenario" questions shine any light upon it. Just my opinion.... As someone who has no interviews this cycle, lol. 

[Organomegaly]

Sorry that my response is not actually useful, just my thoughts on the subject. 

 

I think it is a fairly common question that you need to be prepared for. I don't think my response is a good one. That is, basically tell them that it's a stupid question, lol. It's a question that is fairly common I think. So maybe search this forum more and also the American forums and Google to get some more insight. Post back if you find anything good!

 

I think that adcoms are trying to gauge something that I believe myself: that morality is what you do when no one is looking. However, to me, that doesn't mean that I immediately run to the authorities whenever something is off, it means that I think about it carefully and what is at stake.

 

A really difficult situation that doctors will face is what to do once you have made a mistake. Perhaps the mistake is innocent and understandable. It still may be something that you need to bring to another's attention. You may need to tell the doctors you work with, your insurer, or your governing body. You may think that it will come to nothing, but there may be unforeseen consequences that are addressed by knowing. 

 

This is really not fun and really not pretty. How do they screen for future docs who have a sense of duty and morality in these cases? I don't know. But, I don't think the "cheating scenario" questions shine any light upon it. Just my opinion.... As someone who has no interviews this cycle, lol. 

 

If I was asked, I would answer truthfully. I think they know that the majority of us would not report a friend if we found they were cheating, at least not right away. There are other venues for remediation beside reporting. I would explore these venues and use reporting as one of the options given a variety of other conditions are met (i.e. the friend persists in his behaviour, is harming others through the behaviour, doesn't seem responsive to request for change). 

[makingfetchhappen]

I agree with your approach. I have no idea if this is what adcoms are looking for though.

 

But yes, in real life, that one test that was cheated on could be resigned to the past, and I would be more worried about the person continuing their behavior.