Think Twice About Medicine

[Mdtobe2015]

I am a graduating MD 2015 from a Canadian university. I went unmatched this year in CaRMS to family medicine. Now my family races financial ruin as we won't be able to make the minimum monthly payments on my 180k debt.

 

We know that IMGs have a difficult time getting residency positions in Canada. What's less talked about is the 5% of CMGs who don't match either and fall through the cracks.

 

Think about if you'd like to gamble away four years of your life and your financial wellbeing for a 5% risk of ruin. I would have gone into dentistry or pharmacy had I known how the mandated residency requirement makes the Canadian MD degree alone worthless.

[family_med]

I went unmatched this year in CaRMS to family medicine. 

 

Has no idea this actually happens  

[StayHappy]

Wow.... very sorry to hear that. I didn't know that happens with FM. I would take this year to relax and enjoy life/visit family and consider finding a part time job (depressing I know).

[JessieMed]

Wait, this is really too sad. Can you reapply next year ?

[Arttomed]

like even family med in a VERY RURAL area is still hard to get in or is it just you guys applied to top rank ones? 

[JohnGrisham]

95% success rate is still good. I'm sorry for your tough luck but hopefully second round works out or next year? And that you applied to every single program out there..

[JohnGrisham]

Also you have more to your LOC dont you? I'm sure you can make it work. Breathe and seek help with your tough situation. Wish you luck!

[JohnGrisham]

I am a graduating MD 2015 from a Canadian university. I went unmatched this year in CaRMS to family medicine. Now my family races financial ruin as we won't be able to make the minimum monthly payments on my 180k debt.

 

We know that IMGs have a difficult time getting residency positions in Canada. What's less talked about is the 5% of CMGs who don't match either and fall through the cracks.

 

Think about if you'd like to gamble away four years of your life and your financial wellbeing for a 5% risk of ruin. I would have gone into dentistry or pharmacy had I known how the mandated residency requirement makes the Canadian MD degree alone worthless.

I understand your stressed and rightfully so- but no you would not have gone into dent or pharmacy. The job prospects and all that are not the same and you know it. So again, take a breathe and seek guidance from your school.

[ralk]

To the OP - I can't imagine what you're going through right now, it is every student's nightmare to go unmatched, especially when going for what has historically been considered a non-competitive specialty. The last two years have been rough for the CaRMS match, as spots have not kept pace with the expanded number of graduating Canadian Medical Students, and Family Medicine didn't escape that change in overall competitiveness.

 

Please don't give up - you're not the only one this has happened to and many unmatched applicants in the first round do eventually find a residency. There's still the second iteration with many Fam Med spots available. Talk to your school and lobby hard for their help in finding a position - most schools work hard help their students land a residency and unlike other specialties, Family Medicine programs often have some wiggle room when it comes to taking on an additional resident or two. It sucks, this is the time you want to just stop, but it's also the time you have to push harder than you ever have to get what you want.

 

Talk to your bank if you haven't, explain your situation and outline the extreme lengths you're going to in order to secure a residency. They're not idiots - they know the best way for them to get their money is for you to get a residency. As long as you can show that everything's being done to make that happen, I'd hope they'd be willing to work out an arrangement on the off chance you don't find something this year. Talk to your school if, for whatever reason, this doesn't happen. Other banks may be an option as well, to transfer your LOC.

 

 

To those considering medicine reading this thread - going unmatched in the first iteration of the CaRMS match is, even these days, uncommon. Nearly 97% of Canadian Medical Graduates applying in their graduating year matched in the first iteration. More than a few of those remaining 3% match into a position in the second round, find a position after the match, or find a position in the following year. There are tried-and-true strategies to prevent going unmatched - applying broadly, backing up appropriately into less competitive specialties, ranking all programs that you would consider an acceptable match. Sometimes, even with a good match strategy and no obvious weaknesses on an application, people do go unmatched. When applying to Medical School, you should be aware that this is a possibility, however remote it may be. But don't let it scare you away from the field. There are good reasons to choose a career outside of medicine, but as of this moment, difficulty finding a residency is not a major one - the vast majority of individuals successfully match.

[older]

I am a graduating MD 2015 from a Canadian university. I went unmatched this year in CaRMS to family medicine. Now my family races financial ruin as we won't be able to make the minimum monthly payments on my 180k debt.

 

We know that IMGs have a difficult time getting residency positions in Canada. What's less talked about is the 5% of CMGs who don't match either and fall through the cracks.

 

Think about if you'd like to gamble away four years of your life and your financial wellbeing for a 5% risk of ruin. I would have gone into dentistry or pharmacy had I known how the mandated residency requirement makes the Canadian MD degree alone worthless.

 

 

Not only in Canada... In every country, medical degree alone does not allow you to practice as a doctor, everyone has to have further training through residency or whatever it is called elsewhere.  It is a real shame, though, if  training spots do not match the number of grads.

 

I understand you have another shot in the 2nd iteration so maybe your bitterness is a bit premature. There are still residency spots left and you'll likely get one - not your first choice, but your chances of being unemployed are still much less than those of general population, including professionals with post-grad degrees.

[Wartortle]

OP will hopefully get a spot in 2nd iteration but what does this mean for future grads?

[JohnGrisham]

OP will hopefully get a spot in 2nd iteration but what does this mean for future grads?

The 95-99% match rates(inclusive of Round 2) aren't going to significantly drop if that's what your thinking.  The provinces would start shifting some IMG spots over to CMG classification before that ever happens.  And remember, some of the data might be artificially lower -as some people who otherwise could pick up a spot in a different speciality in round 2, may decide to sit out and beef up their application to apply to their desired programs the following year. There are many other variables and constraints of individual applicants that may hinder the %'s reported.

 

The current ratio if i'm correct is still floating around 1.1 residency spots for 1 CMG, so there are ~10% buffer of seats. The fluctuations occur when there are shifts in preferences and more people want a specific training route than their is capacity etc. 

 

 

Posts like this really serve to only cause unnecessary fear and confusion among those who are less informed.

 

[bruhh]

Can someone enlighten me on the outlook of repeat applicants? Is it just like med school admission where repeat applicants are not at a disadvantage at all, or is applying multiple times to residency frowned upon?

 

Wow, so sorry for thread jacking. I completely forgot to comment on the OP's position. I really hope you get in the 2nd iteration or next year. You have your MD, you're so close. If you made it his far, I'm sure you'll make it a bit further. No giving up!

[Wartortle]

The 95-99% match rates(inclusive of Round 2) aren't going to significantly drop if that's what your thinking.  The provinces would start shifting some IMG spots over to CMG classification before that ever happens.  And remember, some of the data might be artificially lower -as some people who otherwise could pick up a spot in a different speciality in round 2, may decide to sit out and beef up their application to apply to their desired programs the following year. There are many other variables and constraints of individual applicants that may hinder the %'s reported.

 

The current ratio if i'm correct is still floating around 1.1 residency spots for 1 CMG, so there are ~10% buffer of seats. The fluctuations occur when there are shifts in preferences and more people want a specific training route than their is capacity etc. 

 

 

Posts like this really serve to only cause unnecessary fear and confusion among those who are less informed.

 

 

I didn't mean to cause any fear (unless you were talking about OP), was honestly just curious, thanks for the info.

[rmorelan]

Has no idea this actually happens

 

Rare, and often there is some restrictions on the applicant (like they cannot move etc or at least only to a few places) it sucks though

[rmorelan]

The 95-99% match rates(inclusive of Round 2) aren't going to significantly drop if that's what your thinking.  The provinces would start shifting some IMG spots over to CMG classification before that ever happens.  And remember, some of the data might be artificially lower -as some people who otherwise could pick up a spot in a different speciality in round 2, may decide to sit out and beef up their application to apply to their desired programs the following year. There are many other variables and constraints of individual applicants that may hinder the %'s reported.

The current ratio if i'm correct is still floating around 1.1 residency spots for 1 CMG, so there are ~10% buffer of seats. The fluctuations occur when there are shifts in preferences and more people want a specific training route than their is capacity etc. 

Posts like this really serve to only cause unnecessary fear and confusion among those who are less informed.

 

I am a graduating MD 2015 from a Canadian university. I went unmatched this year in CaRMS to family medicine. Now my family races financial ruin as we won't be able to make the minimum monthly payments on my 180k debt.

We know that IMGs have a difficult time getting residency positions in Canada. What's less talked about is the 5% of CMGs who don't match either and fall through the cracks.

Think about if you'd like to gamble away four years of your life and your financial wellbeing for a 5% risk of ruin. I would have gone into dentistry or pharmacy had I known how the mandated residency requirement makes the Canadian MD degree alone worthless.

Again really sucks I would say thought he odds over all for dentistry and pharm are worse than 5% - nothing is guaranteed. I hope the second round works out - often does with family med.

 

No field of medicine anywhere doesn't require residency to practise clinically.

 

Even residency isn't guaranteed in some fields - not everyone gets through or finds an end job in their field.

 

Still the odds are excellent - you just have to be prepared to move anywhere, anywhere at all to max thing out.

[family_med]

Rare, and often there is some restrictions on the applicant (like they cannot move etc or at least only to a few places) it sucks though

 

I've been directing my efforts towards family med since birth. If that's taken from me, I'm going to lose it watch out CARMS!

[Birdy]

I have thought twice about medicine. The years and effort it takes to get into medicine do tend to cause one to reevaluate their choices from time to time. All things considered, medicine remains one of the safest bets, career-wise, with a few specific exceptions within the field.

 

Yes, there's a ~3% chance of having an MD and $150k+ in debt (ish) and going unmatched in my first attempt and having to attempt to match in the 2nd iteration or wait an additional year. However, there is a much higher risk of ending up with $40k in debt and no job, with few prospects, with a BSc.

 

Being unexpectedly caught in a tough spot like that is never easy and I'm sorry you've found yourself in one. I hope you match on your next attempt.

[rmorelan]

I've been directing my efforts towards family med since birth. If that's taken from me, I'm going to lose it watch out CARMS!

 

again often there is a reason for why (say about 50%) of the people go unwatched. Not always of course - good, even great, people still don't match against what seems like logic but often there is a reason in the forum of restricted choices or geography.

 

Fortunately about 1/2 of the people that don't match in round one do so in round two. Worst case it does spin around to the next year.

[Mdtobe2015]

again often there is a reason for why (say about 50%) of the people go unwatched. Not always of course - good, even great, people still don't match against what seems like logic but often there is a reason in the forum of restricted choices or geography.

 

Fortunately about 1/2 of the people that don't match in round one do so in round two. Worst case it does spin around to the next year.

Right, but how many people NEVER get matched?

[rmorelan]

Right, but how many people NEVER get matched?

 

That is very, very rare. First you have roughly 3-5% unmatched in the first round, and roundly 50-60% of those match in the following round. Those that bounce around to the following year have about 60-70% chance of matching (I have no source for this, it is just what several people have told me). and of course that leaves the following round as well.

 

Plus there are actually outs for people that don't ever match (often by choice). MDs can work in a variety of other areas never completing residency

 

 

So it is rare but does happen. Usually your home schools really tries to help you clear that barrier, if for you other reason than they want to have good statistics

[rmorelan]

side note - there are places that will give you a 250K LOC and the interest on your current one is less than 6K for the entire following year. Not great of course money wise but still they is a bit of room there no?

[JohnGrisham]

side note - there are places that will give you a 250K LOC and the interest on your current one is less than 6K for the entire following year. Not great of course money wise but still they is a bit of room there no?

There definitely is plenty of room as a CMG.  250K, and living basic means is not difficult. Yes, some people have other circumstances(families, prior debts and such) but none that are not manageable in the gap year between going unmatched and getting matched the following year(assuming you don't match in the 2nd iteration.

 

A R1 is making what 50k? That 50K income of going unmatched isn't going to break you- especially since you could simply get a educational job (or just any CSR job) and make that cash flow up no problem.

 

It sucks definitely, but the financial aspects are definitely not unsurmountable and will lead one to "financial ruin".

 

 

[rmorelan]

There definitely is plenty of room as a CMG.  250K, and living basic means is not difficult. Yes, some people have other circumstances(families, prior debts and such) but none that are not manageable in the gap year between going unmatched and getting matched the following year(assuming you don't match in the 2nd iteration.

 

A R1 is making what 50k? That 50K income of going unmatched isn't going to break you- especially since you could simply get a educational job (or just any CSR job) and make that cash flow up no problem.

 

It sucks definitely, but the financial aspects are definitely not unsurmountable and will lead one to "financial ruin".

 

 

 

she/he states she/he is currently at 180K. That is 70K left to work with. Plus what ever income could be earned (although that is a challenge as you often has to remain at school, pay more tuition and keep building electives to up your chances).

[JohnGrisham]

she/he states she/he is currently at 180K. That is 70K left to work with. Plus what ever income could be earned (although that is a challenge as you often has to remain at school, pay more tuition and keep building electives to up your chances).

Precisely my point, there is plenty of breathing room in the LOC alone.