Not Typical "canadian Applying For Medical School Abroad" Situation..

[fastyvr]

Hey guys,

First time posting. First and foremost- thank you in advance for this resource, it has helped me answer a lot of questions! But I need some advice for a specific situation, that I cannot find answers too!

 

I graduated Canadian high school in 2012, with good grades but no science courses. Over the last 8 months I have been going to an adult education center, taking all my prerequisite science courses and receiving high grades as well. I know the prospect of taking a year off (or in my case a few years) doesnt look good to medical schools, so I have been volunteering lots within the municipal health authorities; 'community clinics' and 'needle exchange'. And on top of that I have been working almost fulltime at a crappy job (which makes me want to do this even more).

 

I am going to apply to medical school hopefully in the UK, Ireland, and Australia (Pretty much everywhere that will do an undergraduate medical degree, and speaks english). I am aware of the entry tests and will be taking them as they come up.

 

I am aware of the International Medical Graduate problem when faced with trying to come back to Canada, so I am more than willing to spend the rest of my life (or the rest of my schooling) in one of these countries.

 

A friend I went to highschool with is doing the St. Andrews Canadian program. He told me a 90-95% overall average, fair UKCAT grades (he said he didn't even do too well on the UKCAT), and relevant volunteer experience. I think I can pull off those standards, but I'm not sure if he was just a fluke and that its actually way harder!

 

I need to know the real statistics here:

 

Q: What are the real odds:

->what are the optimal grades for a Canadian (BC) student?

->optimal hours and commitment to volunteer?

 

Q: Does taking my highschool science courses as an adult look bad to the admissions team?

 

Q: Which schools have the most spots for international students?

 

And any suggestions to specific schools would be great!

[Head Squeeze]

You might wanna do some research on how likely are you to get a spot in residency in the country you are going to as an international studnet.

[JohnGrisham]

Do more research. Do not apply abroad as a high school student. Most places do NOT have the prospect of "staying there" for residency. Without a residency a medical degree is useless clinically. Unless you have EU citizenship, your odds of staying there are slim as well. However, if you can get into a UK school it seems chances of staying in UK for residency training are fairly high. Coming back to Canada may never happen or take many years after residency and working depending on the speciality.

 

Spend a day doing more research and then post back here and I am more than happy to help answer some questions.

 

You should focus though on going to university here in Canada and getting a bachelors degree in a field of interest and then applying to Canadian and US medical schools.

[Meridian]

Picking an example -- Trinity -- you can see their undergrad admission minimums for Canadian High School students.   I suspect if you have 90's in high-school you would be OK. Its not really much different than Canada undergrad entry to a competitive program.  Note they mention SATs - you should ask them if achieving a high SAT score would be a wise approach to apply.   I don't think your time after graduating will hurt you at all.

 

    http://www.tcd.ie/study/non-eu/undergraduate/country-specific/canada/index.php

 

The St Andrews A990 program is interesting.   It has a Canadian flavour that suggests they help you with MCCEE and CarMS .  It has an email advice link right on the bottom of the page --- why don't you contact them directly with your stats.  Ask them about their match statistics as well.

 

    http://medicine.st-andrews.ac.uk/pro/alberta/

 

 

Curious to your logic to an outside Canada path to Medicine.  Do you hold an EU passport or other citizenship maybe ?    Without it, you will really be at a serious dis-advantage with some real risk to residency matching.   Staying "in-country"  to practice in UK, Ireland, or Oz, without citizenship does not appear to be realistic option at all.

 

Consider cost as a non-EU resident would be $50K-$60K CAD minimum, so thats a $300K pricetag for 5-6 year program.

 

 

Do read Medstart108 posts on here - very insightful 

 

     http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/80804-what-are-my-chances-of-acceptance-at-irishuk-schools/

[A-Stark]

I'd echo the others. 

 

The more relevant question is what you've been doing the past two and a half years after high school when you could have been well on your way to completing an undergrad degree in something. 

[Edict]

fastyvr, do note that the St Andrews A990 program states in its brochure that students are not included in UK postgraduate training numbers. This is vague but my interpretation is that you will not be eligible for FY1 spots aka you will not be allowed to stay in the UK. I would not apply to this program. Apply to regular A100 programs in the UK or programs that specifically state that graduates will be eligible to stay in the UK for postgraduate training. One example is the 6 year St. George's University of London program A900 that allows you to spend 2 years in the US for clinical training and offers you the option to stay in the UK for training.

 

Otherwise, really understand what you are committing yourself to. I went abroad to the UK for medical school directly from high school, similar to what you are proposing, and my experience has been great, but if I could do it all over again I would likely choose to stay in Canada. However, I really have to preface this by saying the experience of studying abroad and studying medicine really gave me the insight to know that pre-med in Canada would have been a better option. I believe if I had stayed in Canada, I probably would've "regretting not going to the UK" as well. It goes both ways.

 

If you do decide to go abroad you have to understand very clearly and carefully that you will have to work incredibly hard in school if you want to come back to Canada or the US. If you go to Ireland or Australia, there is no guarantee you can stay, in most cases you can't, you may be able to get an intern year but staying is difficult. If you go to the UK, you will be able to stay, i've found the links, talked to international students who've stayed etc (international students are under a quota in the UK for medicine (7.5% of home/EU intake) and getting into medicine as an international is more difficult due to the competition http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/student-recruitment/admissions-advice/admissions-statistics (note that they separate international and UK/EU students when tabulating medicine admission stats), i'm sure the competition would not be as high if students were not allowed to stay for post-grad training), but again understand the commitment you are making to spend a good 15 years of your life in a different country.

 

If you are undecided, I recommend at least entering an undergrad program in Canada. UK/Irish/Aus programs will take undergrad students as well, worst case is you lose a year, but the experience you gain will make you more committed and less doubtful of yourself if you do choose to go abroad. 

 

I'll try to answer your questions:

 

Q: What are the real odds:
->what are the optimal grades for a Canadian (BC) student? I wasn't a BC student but I believe you are looking at 90%+ average in your top 4/5 and at least 90% in Bio and Chem

->optimal hours and commitment to volunteer?

I think you are looking at over a period of time, 200+ should be enough and variation is good as well

Q: Does taking my highschool science courses as an adult look bad to the admissions team?

It might, but I don't think it will affect you too much especially if you can explain your decision to pursue medicine came after you chose non-science courses in high school.

Q: Which schools have the most spots for international students?

The bigger the school the more spots, unis that I know have accepted Canadians in the past include KCL, Birmingham, Nottingham, SGUL, St Andrews, Durham/Newcastle, Newcastle. Imperial (4 year graduate entry), Cambridge, Oxford, Leicester and plenty more. Essentially all schools are willing to take Canadians, if your application is good enough. 

 

Among Aus and Irish unis they don't have a quota system which means the schools often take a lot of internationals, although fewer from high school since fewer apply. I did apply to Ireland and I know high school students who went to RCSI, NUIG etc. I would recommend looking to Ireland. I don't know too much about Australia apart from that they've been moving towards the US system of graduate entry but they still have undergraduate entry usually in a BS/MD sort of 7 year program. Consider all the schools there, most will accept Canadians.

 

If I were you, I would choose the UK over other countries mainly because of the ability to stay in the country.