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Mayo Medical School Or Ubc Medicine

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I don't think "where one wants to practice" should be in the decision making process. Why would it be hard for a US grad (from Mayo) to come back to Canada?

Exactly. I think people are underestimating the "opportunities" factor of going to a school like Mayo. It will not hold you back, but again, only go if you're certain there are no "strings" attached on your scholarship..

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Exactly. I think people are underestimating the "opportunities" factor of going to a school like Mayo. It will not hold you back, but again, only go if you're certain there are no "strings" attached on your scholarship..

 

Exactly, 

 

if the scholarship had some clause that you have to maintain 'honors' or be in the top 30% of your class, then op has to think about the chance that the scholarship might go away.

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I would just like to point out that when a student is attending a school in the US as an international student (this applies to anyone that is not a US citizen), they are on a health insurance plan. Meaning they wouldn't be under crippling dept. Usually 60-80% of every visit is paid for by that insurance plan.

 

Also there are up sides to the US system. If you need to see a specialist, you don't need to wait for 3 months before an appointment can be made. You can straight up walk into a specialists office and show your insurance and they will be able to see you. (you don't even need a referral to see a specialist)

I agree that being a student helps when it comes to health care. But I really disagree about advantages to the insurance company based health care system.

 

Insurance companies are pretty much evil. You don't want to put them in charge of anything important to you, like your health. Any advantages are completely overshadowed by the downfalls.

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I don't think "where one wants to practice" should be in the decision making process. Why would it be hard for a US grad (from Mayo) to come back to Canada?

Coming from a current medial student, you learn a lot about the health system that your school is in. Sure its possible to come back but its more complicated than if you were already in Canada. If you're applying for a residency in Canada there is no advantage to Mayo over UBC, and at UBC you will have an easier time doing electives in Canada and networking (residency directors are more likely to recognise the person writing your reference letter a UBC than at mayo). And you don't have to study for the USMLE which arguably isn't the best use of your time in terms of learning medicine in general, if you're not going to go to the US for residency or fellowship.

 

It's not BAD, its just a little more difficul/complicated to learn outside of the country you want to pracice in. In any case the saved tutuion by far outweighs any of these factors.

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I obviously haven't looked into this enough, but I thought that U.S. med schools were never pass/fail and were in fact quite the opposite. I thought that grades were important, and that class-rank is the standard and possibly the grades are on a curve as well?

 

This would be a factor in my decision between a US and Canadian program. Not necessarily a deal-breaker, but a factor. I've actually gone through a similar program and it was fine, and I did well. But looking back, I had no way of knowing that it would be fine or that I would do well. It actually could have been quite a disaster! And well, it was a disaster for people who didn't do well  :wacko:

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I obviously haven't looked into this enough, but I thought that U.S. med schools were never pass/fail and were in fact quite the opposite. I thought that grades were important, and that class-rank is the standard and possibly the grades are on a curve as well?

 

This would be a factor in my decision between a US and Canadian program. Not necessarily a deal-breaker, but a factor. I've actually gone through a similar program and it was fine, and I did well. But looking back, I had no way of knowing that it would be fine or that I would do well. It actually could have been quite a disaster! And well, it was a disaster for people who didn't do well  :wacko:

US schools all take the USMLE, that generally carries alot more weight than class ranks and grades. To the point that many of my friends just go for the mentality of passing their classes - and focus more on USMLE prep instead. So weather its pass-fail, isn't that huge of a deal. There is always some sort of distinction (like honours, or notation on deans letter) in majority of cases.

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Usually top schools are pass/fail for preclinicals, and I believe most have internal rankings while a select few have no rankings at all.

What do you mean by "internal rankings"?  

 

To me, ranking means that you know your rank, your classmates, know your rank, and your transcript states your rank. So does internal ranking mean that only you know your exact number? Are the grade distributions public?

 

For context, my Canadian law degree was marked on a B curve with a normal distribution. So getting an A is pretty special, you might be in a group of 3 out of a class of 40. And your transcript would list how many people were in your class, and then how many people who were in each grade exactly (A, A-, B+,B,B-,C+,C-,D). But in the States, they are even more specific, and they put everyone's  grades together and everyone knows whether you are at the bottom out of your class of 200, or the top. I thought that med schools in the US had something similar. 

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US schools all take the USMLE, that generally carries alot more weight than class ranks and grades. To the point that many of my friends just go for the mentality of passing their classes - and focus more on USMLE prep instead. So weather its pass-fail, isn't that huge of a deal. There is always some sort of distinction (like honours, or notation on deans letter) in majority of cases.

That's not so bad if that is the case!

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It depends on the school, but I think internal ranking generally means that everyones transcript looks the same (everyone gets a Pass), but the school might keep track of your standing in the class based on exams scores and evaluations, then eventually board scores and clerkship grades. This internal rank list is then used to determine eligibility for Alpha Omega Alpha, latin graduation honors, and to help write your Dean's Letter when applying for residency programs (eg. this student is "excellent" vs. "very good" vs. "good" etc.)

 

I don't know whether or not a student is able to see where they stand in these internal ranking lists or if they're kept confidential to the administration.

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Just curious, would you rather prefer pure P/F or rankings? I can see the benefits and downsides of both systems and I'm just curious on what other people think.

Hmmm well it depends. For me for medicine, I am 99% sure that my interest lies in family med. But, if I was interested in a more competitive specialty, or even worried about getting into a specific family residency, grades might be better. It's nice to have a way to distinguish yourself, right? 

 

There are also downsides to grades as well. But there is a difference between grading in general and grading with ranking or on a curve, or both, right? 

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I also applied to Mayo this cycle and was accepted, and I'm pretty sure that this "scholarship" that OP speaks of is a need-based grant based on their financial circumstances, in which case there aren't any such strings attached.

Just being curious, I was told that Canadians are not eligible for any need-based grant. Does OP have a dual citizenship? Or do private schools offer need-based grants to Canadians but public schools do not?

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Just being curious, I was told that Canadians are not eligible for any need-based grant. Does OP have a dual citizenship? Or do private schools offer need-based grants to Canadians but public schools do not?

Private schools with big endowments can generally do what they want, AFAIK. 

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Off the top of my head, the schools that offer need-based grants to Canadians are: Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Duke, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Mayo. All of them are private and arguably count as top-tier. 

 

I received my financial aid package from Mayo this week and also got a full-tuition scholarship based on need like the OP and I'm not a dual citizen. Mayo actually used to accept and give financial aid to all international students, but it seems like their funding has shrunk in recent years so they changed their policy to only accept US citizens/permanent residents and Canadians.

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I would go just for the free massages :P

 

One other thing I don't think anyone here has mentioned is whether you care about the school atmosphere. I read somewhere on sdn that mayo has an older/more mature demographic and thus there isn't that much of a college atmosphere as compared to ubc or any other canadian school

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Disclaimer: I'm from Vancouver and go to med school in the US.

 

I would go with Mayo because it's free. People never look at the big picture...when you graduate you want to have the LEAST DEBT as possible. Everything else comes second. This is the most important factor of life. If you got accepted to Mayo, UBC, and won Lotto Max, which would you take?

 

But I'll elaborate on your cons. The USMLE is not that big of a deal. The US med school curriculum prepares you for it and I know a student at Mayo and he told me that their professors write the damn questions for the test so they specifically know what you teach you there. Everyone at Mayo does extremely well on their USMLEs especially Step 1. I scored in the high 250s on Step 1 myself and I can tell you while yes it was an intense study period it was only a 7-week intense study period. If you just want to do family medicine you can review for 2 weeks and get a 225 and be fine. Visa issues: as someone who is entering the match next year, I can tell you that visa issues don't exist for Canadians at US medical schools. Multiple Canadians at my school have gone on to match into competitive specialties in the US with J1s and H1Bs and they told me there was no stress involved at all. This whole "paperwork" thing is a myth. Also, your F1 student visa covers you for an entire year after you graduate, so you don't have to worry about visa coverage during your intern year. That means you have an entire year after you graduate to get your new visa in order, which again, isn't a big deal. Weather: I'm from Vancouver and this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say the weather is "not as good as Vancouver." If you mean mild winters, sure, but when you're walking on UBC campus getting smashed in the face by rain and your 4th umbrella of the season breaks (I went to UBC undergrad, I went through like 14 umbrellas), remember that statement. The 5 days of the year it's sunny, yes, Vancouver is the most beautiful city in da world. No basketball court at Mayo is messed up though, that's a deal-breaker.

 

I want to speak to some of the issues ellorie mentioned about culture, health issues, etc. First off, you'll not only have health insurance at Mayo (for free), you'll be covered by one of the best hospital systems on the planet. The way student health insurance works in the States is that as long as you go to providers within your own school's/hospital's network, it's 100% free. This includes emergency coverage. If you get HIV, the anti-virals will cost you $7/month. So these "crippling" medical bills are a lie. Medical coverage as a resident works the same way. Mayo Clinic would actually be the best place you'd want to be if you had a chronic health condition. Do you want free, no wait coverage from world-class specialists or would you rather be in Vancouver waiting 16 months to get an MRI? Culture wise, I have found living in the States is much different than living in Vancouver, obviously. I miss seeing gay people making out on the skytrain and people openly smoking weed on the street. But it's not like, making me depressed not seeing these things. I find my experience here as a great opportunity to see the world, living in another place with different attitudes and cultures. This is a foreign country after all. Honestly though Rochester is not Mobile, Alabama, I doubt living there will give you any form of culture shock.

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To comment on the j1/h1b paperwork topic, i think the reason why many people think it is more trouble than it really is, is because most peoples interactions with those who are applying to US residencies are with IMGs. 

IMGs don't have the benefit of being able to stay on OPTI F1 for 1 year after medical school graduation, like a US medical grad does - in order to even have a better shot at h1b  etc.

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Disclaimer: I'm from Vancouver and go to med school in the US.

 

I would go with Mayo because it's free. People never look at the big picture...when you graduate you want to have the LEAST DEBT as possible. Everything else comes second. This is the most important factor of life. If you got accepted to Mayo, UBC, and won Lotto Max, which would you take?

 

But I'll elaborate on your cons. The USMLE is not that big of a deal. The US med school curriculum prepares you for it and I know a student at Mayo and he told me that their professors write the damn questions for the test so they specifically know what you teach you there. Everyone at Mayo does extremely well on their USMLEs especially Step 1. I scored in the high 250s on Step 1 myself and I can tell you while yes it was an intense study period it was only a 7-week intense study period. If you just want to do family medicine you can review for 2 weeks and get a 225 and be fine. Visa issues: as someone who is entering the match next year, I can tell you that visa issues don't exist for Canadians at US medical schools. Multiple Canadians at my school have gone on to match into competitive specialties in the US with J1s and H1Bs and they told me there was no stress involved at all. This whole "paperwork" thing is a myth. Also, your F1 student visa covers you for an entire year after you graduate, so you don't have to worry about visa coverage during your intern year. That means you have an entire year after you graduate to get your new visa in order, which again, isn't a big deal. Weather: I'm from Vancouver and this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say the weather is "not as good as Vancouver." If you mean mild winters, sure, but when you're walking on UBC campus getting smashed in the face by rain and your 4th umbrella of the season breaks (I went to UBC undergrad, I went through like 14 umbrellas), remember that statement. The 5 days of the year it's sunny, yes, Vancouver is the most beautiful city in da world. No basketball court at Mayo is messed up though, that's a deal-breaker.

 

I want to speak to some of the issues ellorie mentioned about culture, health issues, etc. First off, you'll not only have health insurance at Mayo (for free), you'll be covered by one of the best hospital systems on the planet. The way student health insurance works in the States is that as long as you go to providers within your own school's/hospital's network, it's 100% free. This includes emergency coverage. If you get HIV, the anti-virals will cost you $7/month. So these "crippling" medical bills are a lie. Medical coverage as a resident works the same way. Mayo Clinic would actually be the best place you'd want to be if you had a chronic health condition. Do you want free, no wait coverage from world-class specialists or would you rather be in Vancouver waiting 16 months to get an MRI? Culture wise, I have found living in the States is much different than living in Vancouver, obviously. I miss seeing gay people making out on the skytrain and people openly smoking weed on the street. But it's not like, making me depressed not seeing these things. I find my experience here as a great opportunity to see the world, living in another place with different attitudes and cultures. This is a foreign country after all. Honestly though Rochester is not Mobile, Alabama, I doubt living there will give you any form of culture shock.

I'd rather wait 16 months for a MRI and know that everyone who needs one will eventually get one, regardless of income, actually. But that's just me. Not really that pertinent to the discussion at hand, but I like to express my opinion anyways. ;)

 

Also I don't think debt is the only factor involved. Depends on your priorities. Obviously it's important. But you've got to not be miserable for four years too.

 

Not that OP would be miserable at either school. Just theoretically.

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