50 Cmg Pgy1 Spots Being Slashed Over The Next Two Years.

[thestar10]

Obviously not great news.

 

http://www.cfms.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1417%3Aomsa-and-cfms-joint-message-reduction-of-pgy-1-positions-in-ontario&catid=80&Itemid=687〈=en

 

[Bambi]

Life is becoming more & more competitive, and difficult. 

[3change]

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[LittleDaisy]

They are not informing us of the positions being cut, probably they will be more transparent in the near future.

Bad news to hear today

Not surprised. Let me guess, specialist positions in urban centers are being cut?

[xcon2run]

That's brutal. Does anyone have an idea of what specialties will be cut?

[Leon]

There's been speculation for years that something like this may happen. What I don't get is why there isn't a proportional reduction in med student seats. The logical thing to do is cut med seats years before having to cut R1 seats to avoid high numbers of unmatched med students. I'm not sure why there is so much mismatch between the two processes.

[LittleDaisy]

I know they should have cut down med school admissions before cutting down 50 PGY-1 residency spots. It's going to make CaRMS more competitive for CMGs and especially Ontario med students.

After 4-5 years of med school, it is not great to us to be unmatched and to taxpayers' money as well. 

There's been speculation for years that something like this may happen. What I don't get is why there isn't a proportional reduction in med student seats. The logical thing to do is cut med seats years before having to cut R1 seats to avoid high numbers of unmatched med students. I'm not sure why there is so much mismatch between the two processes.

[...]

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[uwopremed]

How is this bad news?  How can so many supposedly smart people be so entitled??  Getting into medical school should not guarantee one a high paying life in their dream job any more than any other profession.

 

Canada is producing TOO many physicians for our needs.   Surgeons that ARE working cannot get enough OR time - meaning that new graduates are still not required even if OR times open up.  Specialists cannot get jobs.  EVEN in some urban centers - some family doctors are finding it difficult to fill up new rosters (really only a Toronto thing).  At the same time - many of these GPs are refusing old and sick patients (or are interviewing them) - so they only have easy patients to work with. 

 

We need to cut medical school spots now, and cut residency spots, and get rid of most IMG and CMA pathways immediately.  Our province and nation can't afford it - and this reckless overprocuction of doctors is the type of thing that will put us on a Greece like trajectory.

[LeBronto2019]

How is this bad news?  How can so many supposedly smart people be so entitled??  Getting into medical school should not guarantee one a high paying life in their dream job any more than any other profession.

 

Canada is producing TOO many physicians for our needs.   Surgeons that ARE working cannot get enough OR time - meaning that new graduates are still not required even if OR times open up.  Specialists cannot get jobs.  EVEN in some urban centers - some family doctors are finding it difficult to fill up new rosters (really only a Toronto thing).  At the same time - many of these GPs are refusing old and sick patients (or are interviewing them) - so they only have easy patients to work with. 

 

We need to cut medical school spots now, and cut residency spots, and get rid of most IMG and CMA pathways immediately.  Our province and nation can't afford it - and this reckless overprocuction of doctors is the type of thing that will put us on a Greece like trajectory.

 

I'm pretty sure none of these people are coming off as entitled for wanting to ensure they can get matched in CARMS. They're already in med school and with applications coming up in a few years, they want to make sure that 50 cut seats won't affect everything they worked for in med school. Getting a high paying life isn't the same as getting into residency.

[LittleDaisy]

Well, there will be 50 residency spots being cut for the graduating class of 2017.

When we entered med schools, there weren't 50 spots of med school being cut. 

So it will be hard for the graduating class of 2017 (CMGs) to match to CaRMS in Ontario. I am speaking from a CMG's graduate of 2017's POV 

I disagree about producing too many physicians in Canada. The government simply doesn't have the budget to pay all the future surgeons. For a hip replacement in the public system, the waiting list is at least 1 year, while ortho surgeons still can't find full time jobs easily in Canada

How is this bad news?  How can so many supposedly smart people be so entitled??  Getting into medical school should not guarantee one a high paying life in their dream job any more than any other profession.

 

Canada is producing TOO many physicians for our needs.   Surgeons that ARE working cannot get enough OR time - meaning that new graduates are still not required even if OR times open up.  Specialists cannot get jobs.  EVEN in some urban centers - some family doctors are finding it difficult to fill up new rosters (really only a Toronto thing).  At the same time - many of these GPs are refusing old and sick patients (or are interviewing them) - so they only have easy patients to work with. 

 

We need to cut medical school spots now, and cut residency spots, and get rid of most IMG and CMA pathways immediately.  Our province and nation can't afford it - and this reckless overprocuction of doctors is the type of thing that will put us on a Greece like trajectory.

[penguin04]

Wow this is terrible across the board, but especially for the 2016s. At least the rest of us, including the 2017 class will have some time to prepare for an even more competitive match. But to do this to the 2016 cohort in their graduating year just as they're preparing their applications is pretty bad.

[thestar10]

10 char

[LittleDaisy]

Why family med and internal???

[Bambi]

He is not referring to Quebec.

[武田信玄]

Uwopremed always brings in the lols.

[...]

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[GrouchoMarx]

I hope they cut pathology. THere are too many spots, not enough jobs, and too many IMG residents who shouldn't have matched to anything in it. Pathology is a dumping ground.

 

Cutting FM is unexpected. I wonder if they're going to cut the spots that have little interest, since that would make the most sense from a cost-cutting perspective. Cutting highly desirable urban spots will probably just push students into doing specialties. Lots of interest in urban FM comes from people with urban ties, not a love for FM.

 

They really should cut the number of IMG and CSA matches, and they should cut medical school admissions. Medical schools if acting in the best faith of their students should advise them to write American board exams and provide funding and courses to help them excel. Nothing ruins a career in medicine like going unmatched.

[Bambi]

Therefore, the necessity to apply broadly. At CaRMS, I applied to 3 fields where I could be happy in my career, and ranked them in order of my preference.

[uwopremed]

Well, there will be 50 residency spots being cut for the graduating class of 2017.

When we entered med schools, there weren't 50 spots of med school being cut. 

So it will be hard for the graduating class of 2017 (CMGs) to match to CaRMS in Ontario. I am speaking from a CMG's graduate of 2017's POV 

I disagree about producing too many physicians in Canada. The government simply doesn't have the budget to pay all the future surgeons. For a hip replacement in the public system, the waiting list is at least 1 year, while ortho surgeons still can't find full time jobs easily in Canada

I agree...the waiting year is 1 year for a hip replacement (but also not really...in Sarnia or smaller towns, you can get a hip replacement in 2-3 months if you shop around - even if from the GTA.  I know this as absolute fact).  But it's NOT THE LACK OF DOCTORS. It exists because hip replacements don't make money from hospitals, so they restrict OR time to the orthopedic surgeons.  That is it.  IF funding for OR time became available - the orthopedics surgeons currently working (with maybe a modest amount more) can more than make up the slack. 

 

PS - if you know your grandma or grandpa needs a hip replacement - use CPSO to find relatively new graduates working in smaller towns and call their offices - the waiting list IS shorter, and if you get on a cancellation list - can even be shortened further.  Then have their GP send in a referral. Just in case.

 

This board does not offer many 'other' point of views.   I find that generalized herd mentality to be more dangerous than having people with less popular opinions on the board (this kind of herd mentality seems to exist on all sorts of social media as well - it's the bane of our generation).  One doesn't have to agree with me - but agreeing with what the ministry of health in Ontario is doing, which is headed by a physician,  is not exactly true trolling behavior. 

 

Lastly...there are still plenty of spots in Canada, and more residency spots than graduates for CMGs throughout Canada.  A lot of those CMG GP spots in Ontario were not filled up, even this year, in the first round.

[amichel]

I agree...the waiting year is 1 year for a hip replacement (but also not really...in Sarnia or smaller towns, you can get a hip replacement in 2-3 months if you shop around - even if from the GTA. I know this as absolute fact). But it's NOT THE LACK OF DOCTORS. It exists because hip replacements don't make money from hospitals, so they restrict OR time to the orthopedic surgeons. That is it. IF funding for OR time became available - the orthopedics surgeons currently working (with maybe a modest amount more) can more than make up the slack.

 

PS - if you know your grandma or grandpa needs a hip replacement - use CPSO to find relatively new graduates working in smaller towns and call their offices - the waiting list IS shorter, and if you get on a cancellation list - can even be shortened further. Then have their GP send in a referral. Just in case.

 

This board does not offer many 'other' point of views. I find that generalized herd mentality to be more dangerous than having people with less popular opinions on the board (this kind of herd mentality seems to exist on all sorts of social media as well - it's the bane of our generation). One doesn't have to agree with me - but agreeing with what the ministry of health in Ontario is doing, which is headed by a physician, is not exactly true trolling behavior.

 

Lastly...there are still plenty of spots in Canada, and more residency spots than graduates for CMGs throughout Canada. A lot of those CMG GP spots in Ontario were not filled up, even this year, in the first round.

It's not your opinion (in this case) people object to. It's the aggressive and sometimes caustic way you express it.

[ralk]

There were only 54 excess position in Ontario after the first round from both CMG and IMG streams combined... taking 50 CMG spots away largely in specialties with sufficient demand for their services makes absolutely no sense, especially when our schools are putting out just as many students.

 

For the last two years the quota-to-applicant ratio for CMGs country-wide has been the lowest in decades, with Quebec eating up much of the wiggle room in positions that are unfilled even after the second round. There's probably still a small bit of flexibility in the system, but it looks like it's going to get awfully tight.

 

Well, there's some extra motivation to get on improving my CV and preparing for clerkship I guess.

[LittleDaisy]

Well I looked at the CaRMS stats for 2015. For internal medicine in Ontario, all the spots were filled in the 1st round. Cutting 10 spots is a lot, getting into internal is more and more competitive in the near future.

For peds and ObGYN applicants, it is a safe thing to apply broadly and back up. Nothing is guaranteed.

I hope that they are cutting 28 FM spots in undesirable places in Northern Ontario. I know quite a few med classmates who are only applying to FM in desirable urban centres. Cutting urban centre FM spots will encourage more med students to apply into 5-year specialties. 

Over the next 2 years, there will be a reduction of 28 fam med spots, 10 internal spots, 2 Peds, 2 OBGYN , 2 Neuro and 6 other spots (not sure which specialties).

 

These are the unofficial positions. 

[3change]

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[thestar10]

 

 

 

 

10 char