Omsa Announces 25 Less Residency Spots For Upcoming Years

[stopmakingascene]

http://www.omsa.ca/news/2015/7/29/omsa-and-cfms-joint-message-reduction-of-cmg-pgy-1-positions-in-ontario

 

any clue whether this is going to affect admission processes for medical schools in ontario now?......

[JohnGrisham]

While the cuts are Ontario specific, it affects every CMG, as residency spots are not tied to the province per sae in the manner that only Ontario CMGs can apply. This is 50 less spots for all CMGs, and it's effects are not specific to Ontario cmgs, but all.

 

Kind of an odd concept really, the way health care dollars flow re: federal and provincial etc.

[Arttomed]

It is a really odd way of using taxpayers' money. they should have first cut 50 medical school seats and then cut residency spots accordingly.  And even if they wanted to cut a residency spot they should have cut something like ortho not primary care spots.

[NotASerialKiller]

2016 UofT's average accetped GPA jumps to 4.17

[uwopremed]

It is kind of funny what would happen to GPAs IF they cut medical spots by around 25-30% (which is what they probably should do, in addition to cutting of all residencies for CMAs and for most IMGs).  Grade inflation would have to be dealt with in some manner.  I believe the deans of a few medical schools have addressed grade inflation and relative difficulties of programs...but in the end...there was no easy mechanism to really compensate hard done by candidates.  But I do see possible 'credit' being given in the future for those that took certain programs or went to certain universities.  University of Waterloo already does that for high school students applying to university.

 

Anyways...despite the howls...the cuts are a good thing...though they would have been better served with medical school cuts.  I know Alberta did them 4 years back (at least some) - and it honestly Is time for Ontario to cut them significantly. 

[stopmakingascene]

It is kind of funny what would happen to GPAs IF they cut medical spots by around 25-30% (which is what they probably should do, in addition to cutting of all residencies for CMAs and for most IMGs).  Grade inflation would have to be dealt with in some manner.  I believe the deans of a few medical schools have addressed grade inflation and relative difficulties of programs...but in the end...there was no easy mechanism to really compensate hard done by candidates.  But I do see possible 'credit' being given in the future for those that took certain programs or went to certain universities.  University of Waterloo already does that for high school students applying to university.

 

Anyways...despite the howls...the cuts are a good thing...though they would have been better served with medical school cuts.  I know Alberta did them 4 years back (at least some) - and it honestly Is time for Ontario to cut them significantly. 

 

i think that instead of GPA and grades, it would be better if the student's rank amongst their program was considered since that would take the program difficulty and your ability to succeed in it (in the context of the circumstances) much better. 

 

i dont know if i agree with med school admissions being cut in Ontario, there's already such small classrooms and not every student with an MD wants to be a practicing doctor

[uwopremed]

i think that instead of GPA and grades, it would be better if the student's rank amongst their program was considered since that would take the program difficulty and your ability to succeed in it (in the context of the circumstances) much better. 

 

i dont know if i agree with med school admissions being cut in Ontario, there's already such small classrooms and not every student with an MD wants to be a practicing doctor

 

My Rant:  Take it for what it's worth! 

 

The medical schools have nearly doubled in size in a short period.  The old classes were not really that small - the new ones are huge.

 

Western has 170 or so students now--a few years back, 96.   MAC has over 200 now!  A few years back, 100.  Same is true of Ottawa, Toronto, and even little Queen's.  Not to mention, a whole new medical school (NOSM), tons of CMAs floating in, and tons of IMGS getting residency spots to0.  As well as tons of Canadians based in the USA coming back, especially GPs, because the money in Ontario and Alberta and BC became so good.

 

At the same time - premeds, frequently with status hungry immigrant parents, started gaming the system at insane levels.  And some undergraduate programs (MAC HEALTH SCIENCES) started giving everyone 4.0s for essentially breathing.  And people started writing the MCAT multiple times; often spending up to 10 thousand dollars in training courses as well.  And people got family members to meet with mentors to get their names on research papers they did not understand a lot about but did some trivial contribution.  And pre-meds (yours truly shamefully included), started demanding from instructors that marks be upgraded to 90s with the latent threat of a bad online ranking or non positive letter in the future if they go for promotion.  And clusters of often ethnic cliques that hoard old questions and come up with ways to gain unfair advantage on tests and assignments.  And even people being paid to write tests for others, or application essays for others and so forth.

 

And those that don't get in, and have money, end up overseas at for profit medical schools (despite terrible gpas and mcats), and find their way back into Canada with high frequency.  Heck - UofT has several plastics, radiology, ent, and internal residents with fine Caribbean degrees (with family members that are also physicians).  There seems to be tons of people from Polish and Irish schools here at Western in residency.  TONS.

 

It's a sad state of affairs.

 

That is what the premed life has come to in the last decade.  It is somewhat shameful. 

[NotASerialKiller]

My Rant:  Take it for what it's worth! 

 

The medical schools have nearly doubled in size in a short period.  The old classes were not really that small - the new ones are huge.

 

Western has 170 or so students now--a few years back, 96.   MAC has over 200 now!  A few years back, 100.  Same is true of Ottawa, Toronto, and even little Queen's.  Not to mention, a whole new medical school (NOSM), tons of CMAs floating in, and tons of IMGS getting residency spots to0.  As well as tons of Canadians based in the USA coming back, especially GPs, because the money in Ontario and Alberta and BC became so good.

 

At the same time - premeds, frequently with status hungry immigrant parents, started gaming the system at insane levels.  And some undergraduate programs (MAC HEALTH SCIENCES) started giving everyone 4.0s for essentially breathing.  And people started writing the MCAT multiple times; often spending up to 10 thousand dollars in training courses as well.  And people got family members to meet with mentors to get their names on research papers they did not understand a lot about but did some trivial contribution.  And pre-meds (yours truly shamefully included), started demanding from instructors that marks be upgraded to 90s with the latent threat of a bad online ranking or non positive letter in the future if they go for promotion.  And clusters of often ethnic cliques that hoard old questions and come up with ways to gain unfair advantage on tests and assignments.  And even people being paid to write tests for others, or application essays for others and so forth.

 

And those that don't get in, and have money, end up overseas at for profit medical schools (despite terrible gpas and mcats), and find their way back into Canada with high frequency.  Heck - UofT has several plastics, radiology, ent, and internal residents with fine Caribbean degrees (with family members that are also physicians).  There seems to be tons of people from Polish and Irish schools here at Western in residency.  TONS.

 

It's a sad state of affairs.

 

That is what the premed life has come to in the last decade.  It is somewhat shameful. 

 

 

...what? You pressured your profs to give you higher grades, and they actually did it without good reason, out of fear? That doesn't sound plausible. 

[peace2014]

and yet medical school admissions is more competitive than ever.... 

[Emojis4Life]

...Seriously, I don't know how much more competitive the process can get. They already ask us for everything...

[stopmakingascene]

the whole reason people tend to go abroad is because they can afford the costs and its less competitive to get in (because $$$) than in ontario. why cant they (in Ontario) cut IMG acceptance more, increase tuition prices or whatever, and accept a slightly larger pool of students (again, not every student wants to be a practicing physician) or open another school. 

 

it seems like such an inefficient process and quite outdated 

[The Bunny]

Double post

[JohnGrisham]

the whole reason people tend to go abroad is because they can afford the costs and its less competitive to get in (because $$$) than in ontario. why cant they (in Ontario) cut IMG acceptance more, increase tuition prices or whatever, and accept a slightly larger pool of students (again, not every student wants to be a practicing physician) or open another school. 

 

it seems like such an inefficient process and quite outdated

 

If one doesn't want to be a physciian, why the heck would someone get their MD then?

[Lawstudent]

Trust me, the situation is far, far worse for law school graduates in Canada.

 

Ottawa law class sizes 5 years back were around 120. Now they're 380. U of T and Queen's Law were around 120, now they are 200. 

 

Thousands of Canadians are attending bottom tier, private or for profit law schools in the US/ UK/ Australia and coming back here (more easily than IMGs coming here).

 

Tuition rates have skyrocketed above and beyond what med school costs, because the government stopped regulating them few years back.

[Bambi]

Yes, no jobs in law.

[Edict]

My Rant:  Take it for what it's worth! 

 

At the same time - premeds, frequently with status hungry immigrant parents, started gaming the system at insane levels.  And some undergraduate programs (MAC HEALTH SCIENCES) started giving everyone 4.0s for essentially breathing.  And people started writing the MCAT multiple times; often spending up to 10 thousand dollars in training courses as well.  And people got family members to meet with mentors to get their names on research papers they did not understand a lot about but did some trivial contribution.  And pre-meds (yours truly shamefully included), started demanding from instructors that marks be upgraded to 90s with the latent threat of a bad online ranking or non positive letter in the future if they go for promotion.  And clusters of often ethnic cliques that hoard old questions and come up with ways to gain unfair advantage on tests and assignments.  And even people being paid to write tests for others, or application essays for others and so forth.

 

So why didn't you rebel against your "status hungry immigrant parents" then?

[uwopremed]

So why didn't you rebel against your "status hungry immigrant parents" then?

 

My parents aren't immigrants - mostly 6th/7th generation Canadian and some of my ancestry is part aboriginal - I've addressed this previously.   A few of my ancestors go back to the earliest French immigrants too - probably 12 generations plus.  But irrespective - they didn't care one iota what I did, and neither of them are physicians (though they are academic professionals associated with Western).  My sister is a major in one of the 'arts'.  I do have 8 physician relatives that are very closely related though (cousins, uncles, and aunts), and they provided inspiration for me growing up.  We also have a lot of professional family friends who are local doctors in the London area.

 

This is very different than many of my Chinese friends whose parents openly would disown them if they didn't make meds or dents.  I went to London Central - a HS that has tons of Chinese kids that live in houses, 100s of miles away from their parents, just so they can go there (the number one ranked school in Ontario many years).  They were essentially loosely supervised boarding houses around princess and waterloo streets.  IT also allowed these kids SWOMEN status.   This kind of group think is similar to the widespread Chinese birth tourism that goes on in Canada and the USA (so the kids can get Canadian or US citizenship that can benefit the family 18 years down the road).   A few of them also brought a cheating culture to our school  - and it wasn't so much their fault but the incredible pressure their parents put on them. 

 

Anyways...that's a whole other story.  But if you don't think insane pressure from Chinese and Indian parents contributes to some of the current issues with high numbers of CSAs, and cookie cutter applications - you are very blind to an obvious phenomenon.  I do suspect third and forth generation will be different (much like how jewish parents nowadays are less strict about the vocations of their children), but it will take time. But in the meanwhile - the pressures on some of these kids is so horrible - I feel sorry for them.  Toronto Life magazine recently profiled one such family - and the toll it took on their daughter (who turned into a vicious killer).  Of course the parents weren't to blame for the killings - but the story highlighted the incredible abuse these parents often apply to their kids so their families get respect and save face.

 

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2015/07/22/jennifer-pan-revenge/

[peace2014]

My parents aren't immigrants - mostly 6th/7th generation Canadian and some of my ancestry is part aboriginal - I've addressed this previously.   A few of my ancestors go back to the earliest French immigrants too - probably 12 generations plus.  But irrespective - they didn't care one iota what I did, and neither of them are physicians (though they are academic professionals associated with Western).  My sister is a major in one of the 'arts'.  I do have 8 physician relatives that are very closely related though (cousins, uncles, and aunts), and they provided inspiration for me growing up.  We also have a lot of professional family friends who are local doctors in the London area.

 

This is very different than many of my Chinese friends whose parents openly would disown them if they didn't make meds or dents.  I went to London Central - a HS that has tons of Chinese kids that live in houses, 100s of miles away from their parents, just so they can go there (the number one ranked school in Ontario many years).  They were essentially loosely supervised boarding houses around princess and waterloo streets.  IT also allowed these kids SWOMEN status.   This kind of group think is similar to the widespread Chinese birth tourism that goes on in Canada and the USA (so the kids can get Canadian or US citizenship that can benefit the family 18 years down the road).   A few of them also brought a cheating culture to our school  - and it wasn't so much their fault but the incredible pressure their parents put on them. 

 

Anyways...that's a whole other story.  But if you don't think insane pressure from Chinese and Indian parents contributes to some of the current issues with high numbers of CSAs, and cookie cutter applications - you are very blind to an obvious phenomenon.  I do suspect third and forth generation will be different (much like how jewish parents nowadays are less strict about the vocations of their children), but it will take time. But in the meanwhile - the pressures on some of these kids is so horrible - I feel sorry for them.  Toronto Life magazine recently profiled one such family - and the toll it took on their daughter (who turned into a vicious killer).  Of course the parents weren't to blame for the killings - but the story highlighted the incredible abuse these parents often apply to their kids so their families get respect and save face.

 

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2015/07/22/jennifer-pan-revenge/

 

Okay, being Asian myself, the disown part of not making it into medicine is DEFINITELY the exception not the rule.... Having A LOT of Asian friends who are premeds, I do not know anyone's parents that do this. Plus, competition is so stiff, there are definitely Asian premeds with good grades that do not get in, if that's the case, then the number of disownership (if that is a word) will be very high, but it is clearly not. BTW, going to that "prestigious" high school in London is also the exception not the rule, you are naming some of the very extreme cases here. A lot of asian parents do not FORCE their children into medicine....Plus, there are asians like me who is actually interested in the field of medicine, and comments like these make me wonder if the admission committee see all asians like this...

[amichel]

Okay, being Asian myself, the disown part of not making it into medicine is DEFINITELY the exception not the rule.... Having A LOT of Asian friends who are premeds, I do not know anyone's parents that do this. Plus, competition is so stiff, there are definitely Asian premeds with good grades that do not get in, if that's the case, then the number of disownership (if that is a word) will be very high, but it is clearly not. BTW, going to that "prestigious" high school in London is also the exception not the rule, you are naming some of the very extreme cases here. A lot of asian parents do not FORCE their children into medicine....Plus, there are asians like me who is actually interested in the field of medicine, and comments like these make me wonder if the admission committee see all asians like this...

Don't even try to argue with his racist posts. It's not worth your anger and aggravation.

[LittleDaisy]

That are some extreme examples of Asian parents, IMO. 

 

My parents are fine and they are happy with whatever I do. My parents just want me to be happy with my career and to have a nice family of my own later on. 

 

I read the news link you provided, it is sad of what happened to this girl and to her family. But saying that this is the norm of Asian families is quite extreme and over-generalizing. Being a physician means open-minded and  not judging your future patients by their ethnic groups. I believe that you have amazing potentials and will be a good physician, but be careful of what you write. It might make others feel uncomfortable. 

My parents aren't immigrants - mostly 6th/7th generation Canadian and some of my ancestry is part aboriginal - I've addressed this previously.   A few of my ancestors go back to the earliest French immigrants too - probably 12 generations plus.  But irrespective - they didn't care one iota what I did, and neither of them are physicians (though they are academic professionals associated with Western).  My sister is a major in one of the 'arts'.  I do have 8 physician relatives that are very closely related though (cousins, uncles, and aunts), and they provided inspiration for me growing up.  We also have a lot of professional family friends who are local doctors in the London area.

 

This is very different than many of my Chinese friends whose parents openly would disown them if they didn't make meds or dents.  I went to London Central - a HS that has tons of Chinese kids that live in houses, 100s of miles away from their parents, just so they can go there (the number one ranked school in Ontario many years).  They were essentially loosely supervised boarding houses around princess and waterloo streets.  IT also allowed these kids SWOMEN status.   This kind of group think is similar to the widespread Chinese birth tourism that goes on in Canada and the USA (so the kids can get Canadian or US citizenship that can benefit the family 18 years down the road).   A few of them also brought a cheating culture to our school  - and it wasn't so much their fault but the incredible pressure their parents put on them. 

 

Anyways...that's a whole other story.  But if you don't think insane pressure from Chinese and Indian parents contributes to some of the current issues with high numbers of CSAs, and cookie cutter applications - you are very blind to an obvious phenomenon.  I do suspect third and forth generation will be different (much like how jewish parents nowadays are less strict about the vocations of their children), but it will take time. But in the meanwhile - the pressures on some of these kids is so horrible - I feel sorry for them.  Toronto Life magazine recently profiled one such family - and the toll it took on their daughter (who turned into a vicious killer).  Of course the parents weren't to blame for the killings - but the story highlighted the incredible abuse these parents often apply to their kids so their families get respect and save face.

 

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2015/07/22/jennifer-pan-revenge/

[武田信玄]

I was a bit worried when uwopremed didn't mention Chinese in his first post. But then I read his second post here, and I was relieved...and lol'ed...again.

[NewLife]

I was a bit worried when uwopremed didn't mention Chinese in his first post. But then I read his second post here, and I was relieved...and lol'ed...again.

 

Can't forget that Health Scis are frauds too, it's not a uwopremed post without that.