Are Us Md Graduates Still Considered In The First Carms Match?

[Maxwe11]

Hi, I've been trying to determine the status of Canadian US MD graduates when applying for residency in Canada. Are we considered IMGs, and thus considered in the IMGs pool? Or, are we still seen as equivalent to canadian MD graduates when applying TO CARMS?

 

Any clarification would be appreciated.

[NotASerialKiller]

I believe US MD lies somewhere in the middle. Priority over other IMGs but not over Canadians. Not sure what pool they are in, hopefully someone can expand.

[IMislove]

Seems that if you're from the regular MD program in the US, you're with CMGs.http://www.carms.ca/en/applicants/cmg/. But I am not even an MD student yet so I am not 100% sure.

[rmorelan]

Seems that if you're from the regular MD program in the US, you're with CMGs.http://www.carms.ca/en/applicants/cmg/. But I am not even an MD student yet so I am not 100% sure.

Same priority - from a regular us school you are just the same as any can grad.

[3change]

.

[rmorelan]

On paper-same as CMG

 

Realistically- somewhere between IMG and CMG

 

are you referring to the relatively differences in networking?

[NotASerialKiller]

are you referring to the relatively differences in networking?

 

 

I think it's more than that. When I told my brother that US MDs are just considered CMGs (he just started his residency and has several friends with US MDs trying to match same year) he adamantly told me that that wasn't true, Canadians still get priority. I think that's what Makunouchi is getting at, even though you're in the same pool most places will still take a Canadian over you making it harder especially for competitive specialties. Is that roughly the situation?

[3change]

.

[ralk]

are you referring to the relatively differences in networking?

 

The match rate for USMDs is clearly and consistently lower than it is for CMGs, though it's hard to tell how much of that is due to applicants simply trying to land highly regarded but competitive positions in Canada only, then backing up with a US residency. It's enough of a difference though that unless a good portion of USMDs are doing something like applying to Derm only, there's probably a lower baseline match rate in there too. With the changing visa restrictions, the incentives to go all-out in Canada for residency are a bit higher, so maybe we'll see the rates start to converge a bit?

 

USMD is still, by far, the best option aside from attending a Canadian medical school - being in the CMG pool means every option is on the table, their match rate is about double that of CSAs, and there's always the option of training in the US. Still, the best route for landing a residency in Canada is going to a Canadian medical school - I don't think the data supports a true equivalence for going the USMD route in general.

[rmorelan]

The match rate for USMDs is clearly and consistently lower than it is for CMGs, though it's hard to tell how much of that is due to applicants simply trying to land highly regarded but competitive positions in Canada only, then backing up with a US residency. It's enough of a difference though that unless a good portion of USMDs are doing something like applying to Derm only, there's probably a lower baseline match rate in there too. With the changing visa restrictions, the incentives to go all-out in Canada for residency are a bit higher, so maybe we'll see the rates start to converge a bit?

 

USMD is still, by far, the best option aside from attending a Canadian medical school - being in the CMG pool means every option is on the table, their match rate is about double that of CSAs, and there's always the option of training in the US. Still, the best route for landing a residency in Canada is going to a Canadian medical school - I don't think the data supports a true equivalence for going the USMD route in general.

 

sure but I would expect that - I mean you have no contacts from a Canadian school to start with, and at the very least you usually have an advantage at your home school (people know you).

 

I am sure there is also a bit of "we don't know that school" as well - I mean there aren't that many Canadian schools, and most people do remain somewhat local to their medical school - thus there are a ton of grads at your residency school that also went to your medical school above you. People know that program works etc.

 

again without any objective testing things like that are going to matter.

 

but the flip side is also true - if you go to a pretty good US school you are probably more likely to match in the US. In fact you may chose to do that - having just spent 4 years in the US you may have reasons to want to stay further.

 

what I am driving at I guess is all of this just natural consequences of again networking like effects rather than structural bias - and if so someone who knows this going in can oppose it by taking steps (returning to Canada to do research in the summer with observerships, doing all their electives in Canada.........)

[ralk]

sure but I would expect that - I mean you have no contacts from a Canadian school to start with, and at the very least you usually have an advantage at your home school (people know you).

 

I am sure there is also a bit of "we don't know that school" as well - I mean there aren't that many Canadian schools, and most people do remain somewhat local to their medical school - thus there are a ton of grads at your residency school that also went to your medical school above you. People know that program works etc.

 

again without any objective testing things like that are going to matter.

 

but the flip side is also true - if you go to a pretty good US school you are probably more likely to match in the US. In fact you may chose to do that - having just spent 4 years in the US you may have reasons to want to stay further.

 

what I am driving at I guess is all of this just natural consequences of again networking like effects rather than structural bias - and if so someone who knows this going in can oppose it by taking steps (returning to Canada to do research in the summer with observerships, doing all their electives in Canada.........)

 

Does it matter that it's a consequence of networking rather than explicit or structural bias? The end result is pretty much the same.

[MD Consultants CA]

Yes, you are considered as CMG if you obtained MD from an US school. See our blog post at http://mdconsultants.ca/canadian-residency-for-us-medical-students/

 

Of course, you would lack the kind of networking needed for a competitive specialty in Canada (generally speaking).

 

Hi, I've been trying to determine the status of Canadian US MD graduates when applying for residency in Canada. Are we considered IMGs, and thus considered in the IMGs pool? Or, are we still seen as equivalent to canadian MD graduates when applying TO CARMS?

Any clarification would be appreciated.

[rmorelan]

Does it matter that it's a consequence of networking rather than explicit or structural bias? The end result is pretty much the same.

 

except with the latter you can actually overcome it - not much you can do with an entrenched structural bias, well at least not in the time frame of CARMS

[ralk]

except with the latter you can actually overcome it - not much you can do with an entrenched structural bias, well at least not in the time frame of CARMS

 

You can sort of minimize it, but the networking advantage is pretty structural itself. When it comes to networking, face time is critical, and there are far more opportunities for face time with key individuals at your home school compared to at other schools, especially when compared to those coming from out-of-country. A USMD could network better than other USMDs, but they're still going to be at a disadvantage over the typical CMG when it comes to networking (short of having personal contacts, which gets into a bigger quasi-nepotism issue).