Masters Vs Caribbean

[amichel]

Is that weighted gpa however? It is also a bit hard to compare GPA since GPAs can vary between university and program and Albertan schools are mainly receiving applications from Albertan university students.

 

From a pure numbers perspective it is still potentially worth it to move province. There are just simply many more Ontarians and not as many reserved spots. It plays out in the number of people getting into a medical school. In Ontario only about 20% of applicants receive a med offer while in Alberta that number is closer to 33%.

It's with 1 year dropped. As I explained in my last post, I really don't think any of those moves are quite feasible for OP. Yes it's hard to compare GPAs but since schools don't care where it came from, that doesn't actually matter when comparing competitiveness.

 

2nd degree then Ontario is the best option here I think.

[JohnGrisham]

Once again you are completely ignoring the actual stats required to get in to med schools in said provinces. 3.5 isn't likely to get you into UBC or U of A, even as IP.

 

I also applied to all three provinces, does that mean I know everything about it too? That's a bit of a silly absolute.

Thank you.

[StriveP]

a 3.94 and 33 MCAT was the average score for Albertans to get in to U of A last year. That is higher than an Ontario school

 

Where are you pulling these numbers from? The website clearly says 3.90 for 4th year at UofA. UofT Med total class average is 3.96. 

I'm saying if you got 3.7+ GPA, it's worth moving out west. Maybe not a 3.5 but I would recalculate your GPA with worst year dropped and try applying. When there are 1441 applicants and 400 interview spots...those are pretty good odds for just 1 school.

[Med_Pack]

Stuck with a 3.5 and likely cannot apply to majority of Ontario schools.

 

I personally want to do a Masters and not go to the Caribbeans. I don't want to pay $400k on an 8% interest rate and repay for 30 years when I can get OSAP and pay off medical school at extremely reduced costs.

 

Any suggestions? Masters will be in business. 

Bio undergrad.

 

I should mention that business has always been more of a passion for me. Hence why the business degree. I cannot and will not and refuse to do a science masters.

OP, are you interested in working in rural northern ON and living up here? I'm asking because if you're considering re-location (and I don't know if you are but since it was brought up in the forum..), then you could also consider moving to N.O, work in business/banking, continue doing EC's/volunteer work up here while working. Your GPA would be decent because you would get a 0.2 boost for doing your masters and there's quite a few around here that have gotten into NOSM I think with a 3.7. I don't think this would be of any benefit though unless you're willing to be up here for 5 yrs at least to get the residency status, which is more  time than to get IP status anywhere else (although I have no first hand experience with comparative hardness/easiness in other provinces for IP so I can't comment on whether that is worth it either). But only do this if you really are passionate about making  a difference in rural/remote/northern ON because if not- it's better to give the spot to someone who will actually stay, it is near damn impossible to get a family doc here. Anyway, it's another option to throw into the mix you can think about.

[Edict]

I would just do the MBA and go into business if I were you. Business seems to be your passion and lets be honest, a career in business will have you start earning money in just 2 years while a career in medicine at the very earliest would essentially keep you from any income for at least 6 years if not longer. 

[Med_Pack]

I would just do the MBA and go into business if I were you. Business seems to be your passion and lets be honest, a career in business will have you start earning money in just 2 years while a career in medicine at the very earliest would essentially keep you from any income for at least 6 years if not longer. 

This is a really good point. You seem pretty passionate and interested in Business so why not stick with it? Lots of career opportunities.

[Wannabedoctorzab]

A lot of interesting opinions..

 

I'm just more confused now. 

 

I feel like I won't even be able to get in anymore with the scores you guys are mentioning.

[PurpleS]

How about a 2nd undergrad in business as opposed to a graduate degree? YorkU Schulich or Western Ivey are great programs. You can probably get some transfer credits to graduate in less than 4 years, it's cheaper than an MBA, and let's be honest - an MBA is an useless degree unless you have previous experience in the field.

 

That way you can boost your GPA for the MD, while working to gain experience for a job. My partner is in business and all of his friends found really great jobs right after graduating from their 4-year Bachelor's.

[guy]

I would agree that if Wannabedoctorzab has their heart set on doing an MD, then a few years spent on a second undergrad degree is the best investment and will open doors at Canadian schools which selectively assess GPA (McGill, Dal, Western, Queens, Ottawa). 

 

But, if Wannabedoctorzab wants to do the MBA for personal reasons, it might be worth noting that some US schools assess applicants solely using graduate GPA (ie. Wayne State's 20 credit assessment). And if the intent is to return to practice in North America, USMD >> Carib. I would add that to the "pros" column for the MBA option, along with whatever advantage you might get at U of T, NOSM, Queen's for having a graduate degree.

[Edict]

I would agree that if Wannabedoctorzab has their heart set on doing an MD, then a few years spent on a second undergrad degree is the best investment and will open doors at Canadian schools which selectively assess GPA (McGill, Dal, Western, Queens, Ottawa). 

 

But, if Wannabedoctorzab wants to do the MBA for personal reasons, it might be worth noting that some US schools assess applicants solely using graduate GPA (ie. Wayne State's 20 credit assessment). And if the intent is to return to practice in North America, USMD >> Carib. I would add that to the "pros" column for the MBA option, along with whatever advantage you might get at U of T, NOSM, Queen's for having a graduate degree.

 

UofT, NOSM are both out with a 3.5 GPA and no Northern background. If OP had 2 strong years over 3.7 he could consider Queens or Western, but it really is a stretch without a second undergrad degree. If OP is going MBA, it won't help him enough for Ontario medical schools. 

 

If medicine is your dream the sacrifices you will have to make are going to be pretty big. If you want it in Ontario you would pretty much need a second undergrad, unless you have 2 strong years over 3.7 and a strong MCAT. 

 

However, you mentioned that business is your passion. If that is anywhere near the case I would forget medicine entirely and go into business.

[sleeping_sickness]

Guys, why is everyone making suggestions for how the OP can get into medicine with his/her current stats? Seems like a total long-shot dependent on lots of extraneous factors. Also, the OP mentioned that business has always been a passion. Why not just pursue business? Why the interest in medicine?

Try something else and then re-evaluate your goals. 

Undergrads go in with med on the mind and travel through their undergrads with blinders on, focusing on being accepted to medicine and only medicine. medicine is not for everyone. do the masters in business and see how you like it and then decide whether med is still an option you'd like to consider. the 

Caribbean is a terrible option unless all other doors are 100% cloed and you can't imagine yourself being anything other than a physician.   

[Wannabedoctorzab]

Hey guys,

 

So I'm hearing a lot of different opinions and some similar ones too so I'll try to elaborate further now.

 

#1) Yes, I love business. I love the idea of waking up for the corporate world and investing all day and making wads of cash. And this is irrelevant but I enjoy the suit and tie a bit more than the lab coat. I can see myself as a CEO, leading big tasks, talking to important people, and etc.

 

#2) A second undergrad - Okay this is certainly not going to happen. If I have to re-do another 4 years in an undergrad, I feel like that is mental and emotional suicide. I hated my current undergrad to the point that I was in therapy and contemplated dropping out. I don't care about biology or chemistry as much as I do about making money. While it's really cool and it makes me feel good when people say how smart I am because of my undergrad, I see no practical application to it.

 

Now some of you might say to me to enter the field of research - NO NO NO. I hated research. I worked for a professor and it did not excite me at all even 1 bit. Sure the lingo was cool and I felt smart but if I had to do this for another 50 years, I'd be done. I have no desire to become a researcher or professor.

 

So to the original point - a second undergrad is a no no. I want to enter the PRACTICAL world and a MBA or masters in international business or even masters in data analytics is more realistic and more appealing to me than studying cell biology. Again, it feels great when people say to me "wow you have an 81% average in biology? I'm in philosophy and I have a 60", I don't love it. I remember forcibly taking adderall and chugging caffeine just so I could focus for my exams.

 

#3) USA or Carribeans - I have absolutely no desire to go to the Caribbeans. I cannot afford the $400000 without a bank loan and going in such severe debt scares the life out of me.

 

Now the more important question that everyone is asking, AM I PASSIONATE ABOUT MEDICINE?

a) Yes, in the sense that I want to make money and medicine is a path for that

Yes, the prestige and reputation is great

c) NO, I don't want to see dying people and depress myself

d) Yes, I love the idea of being able to diagnose and be able to help people

e) NO, I don't want to spend 10 years to do it in school with LOADS of debt. 

 

Now some of you will bombard me with how much of a bad and unethical person I am because I'm doing it for "all the wrong reasons" - skip that. I don't care. I have a duty to my family first, then myself, and then the world. I'm not sorry if that makes me a bad person or etc. 

 

#4) Settling in a different province - that is rather difficult for me since I have no family there. I also don't want to go there unless I'm going there with the intent of business.

 

#5) So why the masters in businesses? Because I want to enter the corporate ladder.  Why am I even considering medicine then? My parents have fed me the notion that if I don't become a doctor, I might become broke and doing odd jobs like my father has to do. 

 

THAT'S ALL. Medicine is INSURANCE in case business fails, EVEN THOUGH MY HEART AND SOUL IS IN IT.

[Edict]

Hey guys,

 

So I'm hearing a lot of different opinions and some similar ones too so I'll try to elaborate further now.

 

#1) Yes, I love business. I love the idea of waking up for the corporate world and investing all day and making wads of cash. And this is irrelevant but I enjoy the suit and tie a bit more than the lab coat. I can see myself as a CEO, leading big tasks, talking to important people, and etc.

 

#2) A second undergrad - Okay this is certainly not going to happen. If I have to re-do another 4 years in an undergrad, I feel like that is mental and emotional suicide. I hated my current undergrad to the point that I was in therapy and contemplated dropping out. I don't care about biology or chemistry as much as I do about making money. While it's really cool and it makes me feel good when people say how smart I am because of my undergrad, I see no practical application to it.

 

Now some of you might say to me to enter the field of research - NO NO NO. I hated research. I worked for a professor and it did not excite me at all even 1 bit. Sure the lingo was cool and I felt smart but if I had to do this for another 50 years, I'd be done. I have no desire to become a researcher or professor.

 

So to the original point - a second undergrad is a no no. I want to enter the PRACTICAL world and a MBA or masters in international business or even masters in data analytics is more realistic and more appealing to me than studying cell biology. Again, it feels great when people say to me "wow you have an 81% average in biology? I'm in philosophy and I have a 60", I don't love it. I remember forcibly taking adderall and chugging caffeine just so I could focus for my exams.

 

#3) USA or Carribeans - I have absolutely no desire to go to the Caribbeans. I cannot afford the $400000 without a bank loan and going in such severe debt scares the life out of me.

 

Now the more important question that everyone is asking, AM I PASSIONATE ABOUT MEDICINE?

a) Yes, in the sense that I want to make money and medicine is a path for that

Yes, the prestige and reputation is great

c) NO, I don't want to see dying people and depress myself

d) Yes, I love the idea of being able to diagnose and be able to help people

e) NO, I don't want to spend 10 years to do it in school with LOADS of debt. 

 

Now some of you will bombard me with how much of a bad and unethical person I am because I'm doing it for "all the wrong reasons" - skip that. I don't care. I have a duty to my family first, then myself, and then the world. I'm not sorry if that makes me a bad person or etc. 

 

#4) Settling in a different province - that is rather difficult for me since I have no family there. I also don't want to go there unless I'm going there with the intent of business.

 

#5) So why the masters in businesses? Because I want to enter the corporate ladder.  Why am I even considering medicine then? My parents have fed me the notion that if I don't become a doctor, I might become broke and doing odd jobs like my father has to do. 

 

THAT'S ALL. Medicine is INSURANCE in case business fails, EVEN THOUGH MY HEART AND SOUL IS IN IT.

 

Perfect, I think for you business is the best option end of. Pursue your passion, you'll be happier and more successful as a businessman than a doctor. 

 

I have the feeling you are a corporate climber not just interested in being an office worker and definitely that sounds like a career in business suits you. 

[NLengr]

Want advice from someone who is almost done training?

 

Go ahead and do an MBA. Forget medicine.You'll be happy in business, it's a good career, lifestyle will be better, you won't sacrifice the majority of your 20's and part of your 30's and you have the opportunity to work hard and make more money than you would in medicine. You seem to enjoy business. Jump into it and enjoy your life.

[FeministKilljoy]

Want advice from someone who is almost done training?

 

Go ahead and do an MBA. Forget medicine.You'll be happy in business, it's a good career, lifestyle will be better, you won't sacrifice the majority of your 20's and part of your 30's and you have the opportunity to work hard and make more money than you would in medicine. You seem to enjoy business. Jump into it and enjoy your life.

My husband is completing his second surgical fellowship and he says this to anyone who is willing to listen to him...

[Wannabedoctorzab]

Perfect, I think for you business is the best option end of. Pursue your passion, you'll be happier and more successful as a businessman than a doctor. 

 

I have the feeling you are a corporate climber not just interested in being an office worker and definitely that sounds like a career in business suits you. 

 

That means a lot to me - the fact that you see me as a corporate climber and not a office worker. I work day and night to expand my knowledge JUST so I can be a corporate tycoon and not an employee. From books to degrees, I cannot work for someone else and will not work for someone else.

 

Want advice from someone who is almost done training?

 

Go ahead and do an MBA. Forget medicine.You'll be happy in business, it's a good career, lifestyle will be better, you won't sacrifice the majority of your 20's and part of your 30's and you have the opportunity to work hard and make more money than you would in medicine. You seem to enjoy business. Jump into it and enjoy your life.

 

I love business, I really do. I think that pursuing my business ventures will make me MUCH more happier than fiending away years full of debt to become a surgeon or whatever - which by the way depresses me seeing sick people.

 

My husband is completing his second surgical fellowship and he says this to anyone who is willing to listen to him...

 

Wow. Why does he say that though?

[amichel]

Hey guys,

 

So I'm hearing a lot of different opinions and some similar ones too so I'll try to elaborate further now.

 

#1) Yes, I love business. I love the idea of waking up for the corporate world and investing all day and making wads of cash. And this is irrelevant but I enjoy the suit and tie a bit more than the lab coat. I can see myself as a CEO, leading big tasks, talking to important people, and etc.

 

#2) A second undergrad - Okay this is certainly not going to happen. If I have to re-do another 4 years in an undergrad, I feel like that is mental and emotional suicide. I hated my current undergrad to the point that I was in therapy and contemplated dropping out. I don't care about biology or chemistry as much as I do about making money. While it's really cool and it makes me feel good when people say how smart I am because of my undergrad, I see no practical application to it.

 

Now some of you might say to me to enter the field of research - NO NO NO. I hated research. I worked for a professor and it did not excite me at all even 1 bit. Sure the lingo was cool and I felt smart but if I had to do this for another 50 years, I'd be done. I have no desire to become a researcher or professor.

 

So to the original point - a second undergrad is a no no. I want to enter the PRACTICAL world and a MBA or masters in international business or even masters in data analytics is more realistic and more appealing to me than studying cell biology. Again, it feels great when people say to me "wow you have an 81% average in biology? I'm in philosophy and I have a 60", I don't love it. I remember forcibly taking adderall and chugging caffeine just so I could focus for my exams.

 

#3) USA or Carribeans - I have absolutely no desire to go to the Caribbeans. I cannot afford the $400000 without a bank loan and going in such severe debt scares the life out of me.

 

Now the more important question that everyone is asking, AM I PASSIONATE ABOUT MEDICINE?

a) Yes, in the sense that I want to make money and medicine is a path for that

Yes, the prestige and reputation is great

c) NO, I don't want to see dying people and depress myself

d) Yes, I love the idea of being able to diagnose and be able to help people

e) NO, I don't want to spend 10 years to do it in school with LOADS of debt.

 

Now some of you will bombard me with how much of a bad and unethical person I am because I'm doing it for "all the wrong reasons" - skip that. I don't care. I have a duty to my family first, then myself, and then the world. I'm not sorry if that makes me a bad person or etc.

 

#4) Settling in a different province - that is rather difficult for me since I have no family there. I also don't want to go there unless I'm going there with the intent of business.

 

#5) So why the masters in businesses? Because I want to enter the corporate ladder. Why am I even considering medicine then? My parents have fed me the notion that if I don't become a doctor, I might become broke and doing odd jobs like my father has to do.

 

THAT'S ALL. Medicine is INSURANCE in case business fails, EVEN THOUGH MY HEART AND SOUL IS IN IT.

Technical point - second degree would likely be 2 years, not 4. Don't know if that affects your decision or not.

[FeministKilljoy]

That means a lot to me - the fact that you see me as a corporate climber and not a office worker. I work day and night to expand my knowledge JUST so I can be a corporate tycoon and not an employee. From books to degrees, I cannot work for someone else and will not work for someone else.

 

 

I love business, I really do. I think that pursuing my business ventures will make me MUCH more happier than fiending away years full of debt to become a surgeon or whatever - which by the way depresses me seeing sick people.

 

 

Wow. Why does he say that 

There are zero job prospects for his specialty and we have a ton of debt from his student loans. He totally burnt himself out in residency and he's been trying to keep his head above water since then...

[Falling]

There are zero job prospects for his specialty and we have a ton of debt from his student loans. He totally burnt himself out in residency and he's been trying to keep his head above water since then...

 

This is kind of scary to read, tbh. 

 

I hope he finds something soon. 

[Egg_McMuffin]

There are zero job prospects for his specialty and we have a ton of debt from his student loans. He totally burnt himself out in residency and he's been trying to keep his head above water since then...

What I'm more interested in finding out is, despite your husband's efforts to deter others from medicine, why are you still drawn towards it?

[FeministKilljoy]

What I'm more interested in finding out is, despite your husband's efforts to deter others from medicine, why are you still drawn towards it?

I know, right!?! I work in allied health and I've always wanted to pursue medicine. Now he'll hopefully be done his fellowships, this could be my chance to follow my dreams. I've spent the past 6 years putting my career aspirations aside to support my husband during residency and fellowships and telling myself I'm not cut out for it. So we'll see what happens. I would make a great physician 

[rmorelan]

I know, right!?! I work in allied health and I've always wanted to pursue medicine. Now he'll hopefully be done his fellowships, this could be my chance to follow my dreams. I've spent the past 6 years putting my career aspirations aside to support my husband during residency and fellowships and telling myself I'm not cut out for it. So we'll see what happens. I would make a great physician 

 

good luck!

[_ _]

That means a lot to me - the fact that you see me as a corporate climber and not a office worker. I work day and night to expand my knowledge JUST so I can be a corporate tycoon and not an employee. From books to degrees, I cannot work for someone else and will not work for someone else.

 

 

I love business, I really do. I think that pursuing my business ventures will make me MUCH more happier than fiending away years full of debt to become a surgeon or whatever - which by the way depresses me seeing sick people.

 

 

Wow. Why does he say that though?

I don't mean to be rude...but what was the point of this thread then? You are saying you cannot and will not work for someone else, which is going to happen at some point as a doctor

And if you don't like seeing sick people....

I feel like I'm missing something? Is there some reason you are considering medicine over an MBA that hasn't been mentioned?

[guy]

Yes I am a little lost on the point of the thread too. If OP doesn't have an interest in biology, research, teaching, or sick people, then I would think OP would want to steer clear of medicine, even as insurance against business. You have to throw yourself into all of these areas and more in order to be a successful med student, let alone as a resident, fellow, or physician. Spending that much energy on something you dislike for the next 10-15 years...

 

I am still a pre-med but based on everything I have observed, medicine is not a discipline easily pursued as a "back-up," if not only because it sucks up so much of your time. Wannabedoctorzab, I would just commit to your passion for business until you become the success in the business-world that you envision, failures be damned. Road bumps never slowed Trump down: he may have bankrupt a few companies but he is still a bazillionaire CEO, about to take the GOP nomination.

 

Every success with your MBA!

[GH0ST]

I don't mean to be rude...but what was the point of this thread then? You are saying you cannot and will not work for someone else, which is going to happen at some point as a doctor

And if you don't like seeing sick people....

I feel like I'm missing something? Is there some reason you are considering medicine over an MBA that hasn't been mentioned?

 

If anything at least it helped flush out ideas and maybe gave the OP something to reflect on, which isn't a bad thing considering the response.

 

Now the more important question that everyone is asking, AM I PASSIONATE ABOUT MEDICINE?

a) Yes, in the sense that I want to make money and medicine is a path for that

Yes, the prestige and reputation is great

c) NO, I don't want to see dying people and depress myself

d) Yes, I love the idea of being able to diagnose and be able to help people

e) NO, I don't want to spend 10 years to do it in school with LOADS of debt. 

 

Now some of you will bombard me with how much of a bad and unethical person I am because I'm doing it for "all the wrong reasons" - skip that. I don't care. I have a duty to my family first, then myself, and then the world. I'm not sorry if that makes me a bad person or etc. (nothing wrong with family first but that last sentence ...)

THAT'S ALL. Medicine is INSURANCE in case business fails, EVEN THOUGH MY HEART AND SOUL IS IN IT.