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Competitive Programs This Year?

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Sorry I forgot about McGill, there are 25 English spots and 8 French spots for Urology this year. I was at the Uro fair this year and I would say there was probably 50-55 candidates interviewing which from what I have been told is fairly standard. Most people I talked to had 4-5 interviews with the occasional person having 8. On the other hand I met 4 people who only had 1. Getting interviews at schools you didn't do electives at is pretty much unheard of so that keeps the numbers down. I would say most people backed up, usually with gen surge or family but I know a few who are all in with 4 interviews, ballsy. I also interviewed for another considerably competitive surgical specialty (hush hush until March 2nd) and would say based on my experience that the uro fair way of interviewing is the way to go for smaller programs. Get it over in one day without travelling from coast to coast in the dead of winter (I was stranded and almost didn't make an interview) but from talking to various program directors they prefer people to come to their sites so that they can sell the facilities and the city, something that is not an issue for urology where onsite electives are pretty much a necessity for interview.

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was last year a relatively good year for that field? thought they were usually around 60% give or take.

 

Last year was a relatively non-competitive year for Uro. The field has averaged more in the 70's in prior years, but with a lot of variation, ranging from low-80's to high-60's.

 

50 people going for 23 spots would be a big jump in competitiveness, even from the average year's competitiveness, though some of those applicants may be backing up with Urology, or on the fence between Urology and another specialty.

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Last year was a relatively non-competitive year for Uro. The field has averaged more in the 70's in prior years, but with a lot of variation, ranging from low-80's to high-60's.

 

50 people going for 23 spots would be a big jump in competitiveness, even from the average year's competitiveness, though some of those applicants may be backing up with Urology, or on the fence between Urology and another specialty.

 

yeah that 33 -> 23 is very scary - this just goes to show you the issues with have with small programs and more or less random fluctuations in the numbers of people wanting a field. You can do everything right and still end up in a strange mad race. With those numbers from extremely gifted med students won't get their field of choice - at least not right away.

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yeah that 33 -> 23 is very scary - this just goes to show you the issues with have with small programs and more or less random fluctuations in the numbers of people wanting a field. You can do everything right and still end up in a strange mad race. With those numbers from extremely gifted med students won't get their field of choice - at least not right away.

 

Yup, and Canada has a lot of specialties with a small number of country-wide spots. Leaves a lot to chance - for applicants, for residency programs, and eventually for hiring institutions too. Heck, outside the bigger specialties - FM, IM, Psych, and Peds - a shift in 15, 10 or even 5 people (out of almost 3000) can mean the difference between a uniquely competitive year and a uniquely noncompetitive year in a specialty.

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Checked with my Uro buddy. 50 applicants for english spots is an average year.

Yeah some staff quoted me a similar, a bit more competitive year then average but not as insane as it sounds. The fair coordinator told us there were 47 people registered for the day, but that still includes people who are picking between uro and something else. Fingers crossed that they actually exist.

 

I've heard ENT is similarly above average this year. Gen Surg is supposed to be normal. Ortho looks like slightly less applicants then spots from what I've heard again. The more and more family medicine programs start to all move to city specific streams the more competitive some of those streams are going to be; for any of the programs that have only one stream in the city where their medical school is and a bunch more in the periphery be prepared for that stream to be incredibly competitive ( Dal, bc, downtown u o t, memorial all come to mind there)

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The more and more family medicine programs start to all move to city specific streams the more competitive some of those streams are going to be; for any of the programs that have only one stream in the city where their medical school is and a bunch more in the periphery be prepared for that stream to be incredibly competitive ( Dal, bc, downtown u o t, memorial all come to mind there)

 

Dal has had specific streams for at least the several years (certainly when I was applying as Dal FM was - ahem - my main backup). They don't necessarily mention that Halifax-based residents still spend many months in Saint John, etc. 

 

I know MUN filled all their FM spots last year and I expect they will again this year. 

 

Why do people have such a strong preference for cities? Downtown Toronto seems like it's a nightmare to live in.

 

 

Probably because they're more focused on lifestyle than training (depends on the city, of course!). I don't think Toronto offers particularly good FM training; there's not much scope for early autonomy and the number of specialists about means a lot of the management gets referred out. Perhaps some current FM residents there can correct me, but it certainly wouldn't be my kind of program (if I was in FM... though this applies to my specialty as well). 

 

As an aside, Sunnybrook had the worst emerg docs I've ever encountered. Hopefully not representative of what they're like elsewhere in the city. 

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I love living in downtown Toronto - you can get everywhere by foot or public transit super fast, there are amazing restaurants, grocery stores everywhere, pretty architecture to look at, things to do.  I don't get how people can live anywhere smaller :)  I was raised in a big city (not Toronto) though, so there's that.

 

Also, I had a good experience on my ED rotation at Sunnybrook.

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As an aside, Sunnybrook had the worst emerg docs I've ever encountered. Hopefully not representative of what they're like elsewhere in the city. 

 

Ya, they're a bunch of lazy jerks...  ;)

 

Ok seriously...There are a bunch of Sunnybrook ER docs to whom I would entrust my mother's life. 

 

And there are some that I wouldn't.  Sorry that you seem to have interacted only with the latter.  It wouldn't take me three guesses to figure out who they were.  Been there.."Hello cardiology?  I have a patient with chest pain who is followed by a Sunnybrook cardiologist..."  Quick history and a chest xray later and the glaringly obvious diagnosis is lung cancer.  But now it's my (and by "my" I mean cardiology's) problem to get rid of. 

 

Despite the questionable numbers that certain ER docs will quote you, early disposition does not equal good disposition (in my experience from both sides of the consultation phone call).   That said, Medicine gets shat on at Sunnybrook, regardless of who is on and time of day.  Their population base is just that old and that sick.

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Wait... How competitive are urban FM programs in major cities(Toronto, Vancouver, etc)?

Very competitive? St. Pauls Vancouver is super competitive, simply based on location. Most FM programs in big cities are fairly competitive. Especially these days since there is a growing trend of people wanting FM as their first choice...and then wanting a big city as well. 

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Wait... How competitive are urban FM programs in major cities(Toronto, Vancouver, etc)?

 

Reasonably competitive, especially compared to FM programs outside of major cities. You don't have to be a rockstar to match there, but you also can't count on it unless you're clearly an exceptional candidate.

 

People want major cities because they're often from those major cities. People tend to like to live where they grew up and there are a LOT of people in medicine from major cities.

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I love living in downtown Toronto - you can get everywhere by foot or public transit super fast, there are amazing restaurants, grocery stores everywhere, pretty architecture to look at, things to do.  I don't get how people can live anywhere smaller :)  I was raised in a big city (not Toronto) though, so there's that.

 

Also, I had a good experience on my ED rotation at Sunnybrook.

 

Eh, I can get most places that matter by walking. And I pay $5 per year for my hospital parking pass. And for about the rent of a modest 1-bdrm in downtown TO, I have a (downtown) house with an ocean view. And I can buy beer from convenience stores (and the liquor stores are open past 9 regardless...). Of course, this is home: 

 

 Wolfville-02.jpg

 

Ya, they're a bunch of lazy jerks...  ;)

 

Ok seriously...There are a bunch of Sunnybrook ER docs to whom I would entrust my mother's life. 

 

And there are some that I wouldn't.  Sorry that you seem to have interacted only with the latter.  It wouldn't take me three guesses to figure out who they were.  Been there.."Hello cardiology?  I have a patient with chest pain who is followed by a Sunnybrook cardiologist..."  Quick history and a chest xray later and the glaringly obvious diagnosis is lung cancer.  But now it's my (and by "my" I mean cardiology's) problem to get rid of. 

 

Despite the questionable numbers that certain ER docs will quote you, early disposition does not equal good disposition (in my experience from both sides of the consultation phone call).   That said, Medicine gets shat on at Sunnybrook, regardless of who is on and time of day.  Their population base is just that old and that sick.

 

 

My experience was more like... "Hey CrCU? We have this old guy with a GI bleed. On some Levo. Crazy family wants everything done..." Brief assessment and the patient clearly has an SBO and is in failure now thanks to the two units given for his normal Hb... ANYWAY. Basically the story was "confused or unestablished goals of care" and "glaringly incomplete resuscitation". That was only the first time that happened. Interesting always to be involved early in the resuscitation, but I don't think it was especially safe either. 

 

One nice thing at my centre is that consultants in emerg do not become MRP until the patient actually gets admitted. Not that we refuse consults much if ever, but sometimes will be able to "re-direct" anything that's inappropriate. (Recently an NP called medicine because she couldn't get a hold of the dentist-on-call. For a patient with a dental abscess. I should have just told her to get ready and tie the piece of string to the doorknob and I'd be right down...) 

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Ya, that's embarrassing.  If we were at the bar, we could play 20 questions and I could likely tell you who sent you that with about 15 questions left over.  But since we're in a public forum, all I'll say is...it wasn't me!

 

I trust that the CrCU cured his dementia, metastatic cancer, critical aortic stenosis, COPD, wet gangrene, diabetus, decubitus ulcers, pulmonary hypertension,cirrhosis, scoliosis, kyphosis, and halitosis.  Because he's a fighter, and would want everything done...

 

 

 

 


My experience was more like... "Hey CrCU? We have this old guy with a GI bleed. On some Levo. Crazy family wants everything done..." Brief assessment and the patient clearly has an SBO and is in failure now thanks to the two units given for his normal Hb... ANYWAY. Basically the story was "confused or unestablished goals of care" and "glaringly incomplete resuscitation". That was only the first time that happened. Interesting always to be involved early in the resuscitation, but I don't think it was especially safe either. 

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Eh, I can get most places that matter by walking. And I pay $5 per year for my hospital parking pass. And for about the rent of a modest 1-bdrm in downtown TO, I have a (downtown) house with an ocean view. And I can buy beer from convenience stores (and the liquor stores are open past 9 regardless...). Of course, this is home: 

 

 Wolfville-02.jpg

 

 

 

My experience was more like... "Hey CrCU? We have this old guy with a GI bleed. On some Levo. Crazy family wants everything done..." Brief assessment and the patient clearly has an SBO and is in failure now thanks to the two units given for his normal Hb... ANYWAY. Basically the story was "confused or unestablished goals of care" and "glaringly incomplete resuscitation". That was only the first time that happened. Interesting always to be involved early in the resuscitation, but I don't think it was especially safe either. 

 

One nice thing at my centre is that consultants in emerg do not become MRP until the patient actually gets admitted. Not that we refuse consults much if ever, but sometimes will be able to "re-direct" anything that's inappropriate. (Recently an NP called medicine because she couldn't get a hold of the dentist-on-call. For a patient with a dental abscess. I should have just told her to get ready and tie the piece of string to the doorknob and I'd be right down...) 

 

ahh the joys of a better of standard of living for the dollar.

 

that sounds more collaborative - and much better. Really it doesn't do the patient any good to be on the wrong service. You don't want a medicine patient on a surgical floor or a surgical one on a medicine one. It just doesn't lead to best patient outcome.

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Ya, that's embarrassing.  If we were at the bar, we could play 20 questions and I could likely tell you who sent you that with about 15 questions left over.  But since we're in a public forum, all I'll say is...it wasn't me!

 

I trust that the CrCU cured his dementia, metastatic cancer, critical aortic stenosis, COPD, wet gangrene, diabetus, decubitus ulcers, pulmonary hypertension,cirrhosis, scoliosis, kyphosis, and halitosis.  Because he's a fighter, and would want everything done...

 

Ohhh he did not have a good outcome. This place needs an associated bar, though. 

 

Of course, arguably worse was the general abuse of the Rapid Response team. 

 

ahh the joys of a better of standard of living for the dollar.

 

that sounds more collaborative - and much better. Really it doesn't do the patient any good to be on the wrong service. You don't want a medicine patient on a surgical floor or a surgical one on a medicine one. It just doesn't lead to best patient outcome.

 

 

It still happens here from time to time. But since we're a smaller centre I know pretty much all the ERPs on a first name basis. On one hand, it means you need to maintain that "filter" when you really are that annoyed (however legitimately) but can't afford to wreck your relationship with them. Equally it means you end up working together a lot of the time. I don't think I'd want to work anywhere where I didn't know (most of) my colleagues. 

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Eh, I can get most places that matter by walking. And I pay $5 per year for my hospital parking pass. And for about the rent of a modest 1-bdrm in downtown TO, I have a (downtown) house with an ocean view. And I can buy beer from convenience stores (and the liquor stores are open past 9 regardless...). Of course, this is home: 

 

 Wolfville-02.jpg

 

Wow, this just made me so nostalgic for home. Great lakes are nice, but they will never compare to the ocean

 

I'm also kind of shocked there's someone else form there on here

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