cwang293 Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Unfortunately unmatched this year, will be applying for family in the upcoming cycle. Are second time applicants stigmatized ? And, what do people do in the next few months to prepare? I was going to arrange for clinical work, but obtaining a trainee license takes so long that I can't do anything clinical until pretty much August. I am planning to get involved with a research project, do some volunteering and teaching, and then maybe some clinical work. Any advice would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh fry Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Unfortunately unmatched this year, will be applying for family in the upcoming cycle. Are second time applicants stigmatized ? And, what do people do in the next few months to prepare? I was going to arrange for clinical work, but obtaining a trainee license takes so long that I can't do anything clinical until pretty much August. I am planning to get involved with a research project, do some volunteering and teaching, and then maybe some clinical work. Any advice would be appreciated! Yes, sorry. You will have to explain this on your personal letters and any interviews you may get. I suggest that you "own it" and set up a strategy to explain how you have learned and grown since this year. Look into a masters like MBA or MPH or Med Ed. Some of these you can apply for at last minute and generaly faculties are helpful at bending the rules in this situation. Know a few people who have done this. you can always do shadowing/electives while working on your resume. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwang293 Posted April 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Thanks for the reply. I know I need to explain this, but with 1st time applicant, I m automatically considered as inferior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh fry Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 I can't think of a polite way to phrase but here is my best shot: you didn't match after two rounds of CaRMs as a CMG from a Canadian university. You applied and went to two rounds of interviews but in the end were not offered a position. Ask yourself if you were the one doing the selections what you would assume about a candidate in this situation. Best case scenario you applied for something very ambitious and were unlucky and then could not find a back up second round. Worst case scenario you are not an appealing candidate. I don't want to be mean, i really don't. I feel for you but I also think it would be wrong to lie to you. You have an uphill fight. I don't have the stats but a friend who went unmatched last year said that if you go unmatched your odds of not matching a second time almost go up an order of magnitude (I will ask him for his source but our faculty is very big on CaRMS strategies and probably gave it to him directly). You have about 6 months to make the contacts and clinical impression on a program to get a leg up. You have about 9 months to figure out what went wrong and fix it. If you got a lot of interviews then its safe to assume you look good on paper and your references and CV are good in which case you may not interview well and you should hire a coach and get some expert advice. If you didn't get many interviews it may be your reputation, your electives, or your reference letters in which case you should have an object third party go through it for you and give you some honest feedback. I hope things turn around for you and it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwang293 Posted April 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Thanks for your honest feedback. I do realize that this is an uphill battle. I was applying to a competitive surgical speciality and now am only aiming for family as I realized this is a better fit for me. Any advice on what I should be doing in the next few months other than more clinical work and possible research ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 I can't think of a polite way to phrase but here is my best shot: you didn't match after two rounds of CaRMs as a CMG from a Canadian university. You applied and went to two rounds of interviews but in the end were not offered a position. Ask yourself if you were the one doing the selections what you would assume about a candidate in this situation. Best case scenario you applied for something very ambitious and were unlucky and then could not find a back up second round. Worst case scenario you are not an appealing candidate. I don't want to be mean, i really don't. I feel for you but I also think it would be wrong to lie to you. You have an uphill fight. I don't have the stats but a friend who went unmatched last year said that if you go unmatched your odds of not matching a second time almost go up an order of magnitude (I will ask him for his source but our faculty is very big on CaRMS strategies and probably gave it to him directly). You have about 6 months to make the contacts and clinical impression on a program to get a leg up. You have about 9 months to figure out what went wrong and fix it. If you got a lot of interviews then its safe to assume you look good on paper and your references and CV are good in which case you may not interview well and you should hire a coach and get some expert advice. If you didn't get many interviews it may be your reputation, your electives, or your reference letters in which case you should have an object third party go through it for you and give you some honest feedback. I hope things turn around for you and it all works out. Just wanted to chime in with some numbers on this point - while people applying in their 2nd CaRMS cycle do face an uphill battle, the match rate isn't that scary. CaRMS put out a presentation last year showing that of the 2013 grads to went unmatched and tried again in 2014, 30 out of 35 - about 86% - successfully matched in the first round. Chances of matching do fall off pretty quickly from there, however, so it's worth putting in every effort for next year. Being a junior trainee, I'm afraid I can't offer any advise on what exactly you should be doing, so I'll leave that to the more experienced posters. Still, I want you to go into this cycle with some optimism - it's not that bleak of a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohaloh Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Thanks for your honest feedback. I do realize that this is an uphill battle. I was applying to a competitive surgical speciality and now am only aiming for family as I realized this is a better fit for me. Any advice on what I should be doing in the next few months other than more clinical work and possible research ? Don't be disheartened. I suggest you spend time doing a quality basic science research project related to your field of interest. Try to get an abstract or two out plus a publication. If you can do clinical work, that will also help a lot. Try working with some academic surgeons, make contacts and show genuine interest. Come back a stronger candidate and you can still apply to your surgical subspecialty with family as backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmarshmallow Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Sorry to hear that it happened to you... Previous posters offer valuable advice, and I do agree with them that the best step right now is to take a step back and to see what went wrong. In the mean time, although it would be more profitable for you to pursue research and to network within your specialty of choice, I would also recommend taking time for yourself. To explore hobbies you didn't know about, to meet people outside of your usual social circle, to travel to places you didn't know about... Just to see what other skills you have and can bring back into the second CaRMS match. As for applying for family, I suggest you only apply to family only if you really appreciate the specialty--there's no point wasting someone's spot, the program's time and your own time. Family might be easy to match overall given that the quote is higher than the number of interested applicants, but do keep in mind that most big cities are competitive. For example, given that you're from Ontario, don't count on applying to only major university city centers as a backup. Family medicine admission committees definitely favor candidates who demonstrate genuine interest towards family medicine (multiple questions at Mac, UofT, Queen's and UofO interview sessions). Here's this year preliminary data for the R1 match: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-CaRMS-Forum-Data-Deck_FINAL_EN.pdf. And yes, you do have an uphill battle to fight... Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mononoke Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Sorry to hear that it happened to you... Previous posters offer valuable advice, and I do agree with them that the best step right now is to take a step back and to see what went wrong. In the mean time, although it would be more profitable for you to pursue research and to network within your specialty of choice, I would also recommend taking time for yourself. To explore hobbies you didn't know about, to meet people outside of your usual social circle, to travel to places you didn't know about... Just to see what other skills you have and can bring back into the second CaRMS match. As for applying for family, I suggest you only apply to family only if you really appreciate the specialty--there's no point wasting someone's spot, the program's time and your own time. Family might be easy to match overall given that the quote is higher than the number of interested applicants, but do keep in mind that most big cities are competitive. For example, given that you're from Ontario, don't count on applying to only major university city centers as a backup. Family medicine admission committees definitely favor candidates who demonstrate genuine interest towards family medicine (multiple questions at Mac, UofT, Queen's and UofO interview sessions). Here's this year preliminary data for the R1 match: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-CaRMS-Forum-Data-Deck_FINAL_EN.pdf. And yes, you do have an uphill battle to fight... Best of luck! This is really important, if there's something else you enjoy, gear your research and networking towards that to show interest. It can be harder to transfer out of family and into something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 To be clear, you absolutely should apply to family because you should apply as widely and as broadly as possible. How you choose to rank programs can come later, but do not limit your applications at the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notapplicable Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 To be clear, you absolutely should apply to family because you should apply as widely and as broadly as possible. How you choose to rank programs can come later, but do not limit your applications at the outset. I'd maybe amend that to apply to any programs you would consider / could potentially see yourself doing. If you think you'd absolutely hate life as a family doctor and would maybe even rather leave medicine than go into family, then probably not worth even applying. But if you think you could be happy enough in that field, even if it isn't exactly what you want, then interview, rank it accordingly, and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I'd maybe amend that to apply to any programs you would consider / could potentially see yourself doing. If you think you'd absolutely hate life as a family doctor and would maybe even rather leave medicine than go into family, then probably not worth even applying. But if you think you could be happy enough in that field, even if it isn't exactly what you want, then interview, rank it accordingly, and hope for the best. Another point here is that your considerations and thoughts toward a certain specialty may change in the period of time between submitting applications and obtaining interviews (and even after the interview period). Aside from financial costs, I don't see any reason why one should not apply as broadly as possible. It is simple to turn down interviews or not rank programs, but you cannot re-do the application process to get more interviews until the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John9115 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 I don't think you should let other people on here bring you down. You made it this far so clearly you are RESILIENT. Where there is a will there is a way. You can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drake19 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 -first make sure you pass your MCCQE exam part 1 - don't want to fail that for next year's applications -make sure you end year strong and build contacts for letters and rotations this upcoming year -also consider prepping for part 2 exam although you need about 1 year of internship before you can take that exam. -during your year off there are only a few things you can really do 1) clinical - in your case family medicine observerships/externships, once you graduate I don't know if it is possible to do an actual elective/selective/rotation -consider delaying graduation so you can continue to do electives/selectives 2) academics - publications I think are the most important/productive thing you can do in terms of academics -I would not consider MPH or Masters unless it is something you truly enjoy and will get publications out of it -consider taking USMLE Step 1,2,3 - its always good to have a backup plan -you should really take a good hard honest look at why you didn't match and ask for advice, seek help -if you need help with interviews i recommend applying to the states as there are about 500 family medicine programs and probably even more internal medicine programs -they usually pay for your hotel, meals, etc. so budget wise will help -also a good opportunity for interview practice and a shot at resisdency. -for FM interviews in US, interview day consists of a few candidates and you get anywhere from 2 interviews to 10 interviews in a day so really good practice for interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p2310 Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 With regards to MCCQE results. Is that something PD look at? Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwang293 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Any advice on good electives for FM? I m thinking urban, rural family, rural emerg, hospitalist, possibly some peds and IM? Any advice would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDaisy Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hey before checking the FM electives, make sure that the medical faculty does not require a malpractice health insurance (usually provided by medical faculty for enrolling clerks)...I am sure that there is a way that you could go around the malpractice health insurance during the gap year Probably rural FM electives are more loose than urban FM spots Any advice on good electives for FM?I m thinking urban, rural family, rural emerg, hospitalist, possibly some peds and IM? Any advice would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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