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Intensity Of U Of T Med


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*Edit: Sorry for the poorly worded title, I forgot to change it before posting. A better one would be "Concerns over U of T Med"

 

Hi everyone, I am currently deciding between a few Ontario medical schools and could really use some advice. U of T seems very appealing for the sheer number of opportunities (clinical, research, policy, etc.) that it offers, as well as its phenomenal location. I feel like it will allow me to maximize my educational experience, and I genuinely think that I would enjoy the experience.

 

Nevertheless, a few alleged qualities of the program - all of which are grounded in nothing but individual experiences and hearsay - are making me a little hesitant. First of all, I am worried about the supposed intensity and competitiveness within the U of T program, at least compared to some of the other Ontario ones (e.g. Queens). I have heard the term "gunners" being thrown around by med students from both within and outside of U of T med. While being driven is not a bad thing imo, I do feel like an overly intense environment may detract from an otherwise outstanding educational experience.

 

Second, the size of the program feels a little intimidating. I understand that the class is split up into smaller academies, but there may also be down sides to being in a class of ~260 individuals, as opposed to other schools (e.g. Queens with 100). The main ones I can think of are depersonalization and "dilution" - that is, it might be more difficult to participate, to get to know your lecturers/preceptors, and to form relationships with everyone in your class (i.e. the potential - perhaps inevitable - formation of cliques).

 

In addition, I'm not sure how U of T ranks up against other programs in terms of the depth of clinical experiences. McMaster, with its horizontal electives, seems to provide a much more extensive clinical exposure from the very start, and that seems very exciting. Furthermore, I have heard from McMaster students that they feel very prepared for clerkships (perhaps more so than students from other schools) because of these experiences. Ottawa also seems to heavily encourage clinical experiences, but I am uncertain about how in-depth they are (e.g. shadowing/observing vs. actually participating in a procedure).

 

Finally, many 1T9 students have expressed concerns to me about the Foundations curriculum. It was apparently piloted with them this past year, and I have mostly heard negative comments about it. On the one hand this is a plus - the faculty may have listened and modified the curriculum accordingly. On the other hand, I'm not sure how I feel about being the first class to go through a revamped curriculum (historically, the first years of new structures/curricula are typically not positive experiences).

 

Once again, keep in mind that all of the above comments are based on only rumours, hearsay, and generally poor quality evidence. I'm hoping that PM101 users might be able to shed some light on any of these concerns, and potentially either verify or refute them. U of T is a truly exceptional school, and it is only the above hesitations that are preventing me from accepting my offer there. Thank you very much for all your help!

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I didn't attend UofT med but here is a very general piece of advice:

 

Medical education across Canada is fairly similar. Choose the program that resonates best with you. If you know what specialty you'd like to pursue already then the program you choose really doesn't matter. If you'd like the opportunity to explore different fields and different programs at different institutions before CaRMS, then choose the school that has the greatest number of pre-CaRMS elective weeks. These are things people often don't consider when choosing a medical school and things that end up causing stress later down the line. My personal opinion (which may very well be false) id that 3 year programs have less pre-CaRMS elective time and this seems to cause a great deal of stress for students who are undecided on specialty. 

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Hey there,

 

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what was said about UofT (downtown campus anyway), but there are a few things you should consider with your points:

 

1. You will find "gunners" no matter what school you go to. The system is set up so that people who get accepted to medical school are inherently going to seek out opportunities to do everything and anything they feel will help them. Personally, I think that term is thrown around quite loosely because it takes people some time to get used to the pass/fail system after constantly shooting for a 4.0 in undergrad. In terms of competitiveness, UofT has so many opportunities for everything (research, observerships, etc.) that even if you aren't able to participate in one, there will be several other very similar ones you will be able to pursue.

 

2. What we experienced is but a small snapshot of the new curriculum. We were given snip-bits for them to test out certain things and incorporate feedback for next year. However, this was done ALONGSIDE our current curriculum (still very lecture heavy, plus not much time off). What you will experience next year will be totally different from our guinea pig experience (i.e. wednesday's off and only 3 hours of lecture per week).

 

3. Mac's program is only 3 years vs. 4, so those experiences are necessity. There is a lot of material that mac students don't get taught compared to what we are taught at UofT (for better or worse who knows), but you will get the same experiences, just over a long period of time. Plus summers off for the first 2 years...

 

4. You are likely right in that you will not form a close bond with all 256 students at UofT. However, you may not form a close bond will all 100 at Queens either. People will inherently group together with others who have similar outlooks, interests, and personalities. This isn't necessarily a bad thing and you will get really good experience with a broad group of diverse students at UofT. Some cliques do form, but everyone is friendly towards each other and it is a very positive, supportive learning environment for everyone.

 

Hope that helps

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Most of the things you said could be applied to all the medical schools. As the above posters have said, medical education is more or less the same no matter where you go. The only real concern is the new curriculum: No one really knows how it will work out, despite having upper years guinea pig it. The best thing you can do about that is go into it with a positive attitude :)

 

I currently go to Mac and if you would like to learn more about our curriculum, feel free to PM me.

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I am also curious about what sort of clinical exposure UofT offers. For example, I know UBC schedules time in family practice during the week to build general clinical exposure and understanding - does UofT do something similar to this?

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I am also curious about what sort of clinical exposure UofT offers. For example, I know UBC schedules time in family practice during the week to build general clinical exposure and understanding - does UofT do something similar to this?

In first year there is a dedicated clinical skills course where you are in the hospitals interviewing real patients and practicing clinical skills once a week. In addition, the new curriculum has a built in day off (Wednesdays) where you can do what you choose, but you will be encouraged to use some of those Wednesdays for shadowing and observerships. There are also organized observership programs at UofT that allow you to shadow a specialty for an extended period of time like pediatrics, psychiatry, or surgery. On top of all that, in 2nd year there is a family medicine learning experience course wherein you shadow a family physician for 6 weeks once a week and also practice your clinical skills in their office.

 

I was concerned with early clinical exposure too when I was making my choice, but as you can see UofT med offers A LOT of opportunity for exposure early on.

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