Caribean Medical Schools

[Corie]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm hoping some of you would be able to provide me with some insight into Caribean medical schools and the prospect of completing a residency in Canada. Is it likely upon graduation to successfully secure a residency? What if you don't? Thanks.

[Thunderbirds]

1. http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_50_IMGs_by_Region_of_Graduation_English.pdf 

 

Make of this data what you will. It's up to you to decide if those numbers are worth spending $300k on medical school in Caribbean. About 75% of those who do match (~22%) will match to FM, IM or Psychiatry. 

 

2. No residency in Canada, no practice in Canada. 

 

3. My personal opinion: try your best in Canada or US for 3-4 cycles. If not, there's plenty of other health care professions where you can provide meaningful care and make a difference. 

[NotASerialKiller]

1. http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_50_IMGs_by_Region_of_Graduation_English.pdf 

 

Make of this data what you will. It's up to you to decide if those numbers are worth spending $300k on medical school in Caribbean. About 75% of those who do match (~22%) will match to FM, IM or Psychiatry. 

 

2. No residency in Canada, no practice in Canada. 

 

3. My personal opinion: try your best in Canada or US for 3-4 cycles. If not, there's plenty of other health care professions where you can provide meaningful care and make a difference. 

 

All of this is if you don't fail a test and get booted out with nothing to show but $200k of debt, which happens to many.

[loodogg]

1. http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_50_IMGs_by_Region_of_Graduation_English.pdf 

 

Make of this data what you will. It's up to you to decide if those numbers are worth spending $300k on medical school in Caribbean. About 75% of those who do match (~22%) will match to FM, IM or Psychiatry. 

 

2. No residency in Canada, no practice in Canada. 

 

3. My personal opinion: try your best in Canada or US for 3-4 cycles. If not, there's plenty of other health care professions where you can provide meaningful care and make a difference. 

Not true. Many people who study abroad complete their residency in the US and work their way back to Canada

[PremedToronto]

Not true. Many people who study abroad complete their residency in the US and work their way back to Canada

 

True but that brings challenges of its own.

[Corie]

Interesting, how does that route work? I looked at St Georges in Granada's tuition and its nuts! $350k just in tuition payments in addition to living expenses x 4.5 years. Dunno how people afford that as a student.

[JohnGrisham]

Interesting, how does that route work? I looked at St Georges in Granada's tuition and its nuts! $350k just in tuition payments in addition to living expenses x 4.5 years. Dunno how people afford that as a student.

Family that is able to help support on top of LOC and student loans.  

 

For primary care,(I.e. FM, IM and Psych) its very easy generally to hop back over the border and practice.  For other fields, people tend to just stay in the US where the grass is greener or they have a path of lesser resistence.

After being abroad for medical school, many people tend to lose the urge to immediately come back to Canada etc, less so than when they first started abroad of course. But then there are also people who must make it back to Canada at all costs, and they do so as well, or gunned for a Canadian residency in the first place etc. 

[rial2]

Not true. Many people who study abroad complete their residency in the US and work their way back to Canada

Isn't that a lengthy and tough process?

[loodogg]

Isn't that a lengthy and tough process?

Yes and increasingly difficult to attain but just wanted to point out that poster's statement was not accurate

[Prothrombin]

Getting a residency, as others have mentioned, is getting increasingly difficult year after year. You'd have to decide if its worth it for you to be that much in debt for a chance to be an MD. If you work hard enough and score well on exams you can definitely get a residency back in Canada but most do end up working in the US prior. Certainly a long process but if its your goal don't let anything or anyone stop you!

[Arztin]

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

[Cyclosarin]

Getting a residency, as others have mentioned, is getting increasingly difficult year after year. You'd have to decide if its worth it for you to be that much in debt for a chance to be an MD. If you work hard enough and score well on exams you can definitely get a residency back in Canada but most do end up working in the US prior. Certainly a long process but if its your goal don't let anything or anyone stop you!

 

 

My thinking is this.  If you're willing and capable of working hard enough abroad to secure a residency, why wouldn't you put in some of that effort at home and secure a medical school position?  It's certainly cheaper to get a second degree and/or rewrite the MCAT multiple times then it's to pay tuition in the Caribbean.  

[lcs.tmng]

If you love debt and dismal post graduation prospects, a Caribbean school is for you!

[lolabean]

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

 

 

This is incredibly sad... 

[guy30]

This is incredibly sad... 

Interesting read and it really is sad... I guess people need to keep in mind you're ultimately going to a 3rd world country and to a university who's main purpose is not world class research, education, or creating a medical workforce for their own country etc., but rather one that was created for the purpose of using people as cash cows, relying on a foreign country for half your education during clerkship, and with no possible resources or infrastructure to fall back on and support you post med school in the home country if things don't work out.  As such, they're ultimately not going to be very invested in you.  That and though the US is probably more merit based across applicants compared to Canada for residency selection, it clearly is not completely objective if a person of this caliber and marks had so much trouble even getting interviews.

 

I can't believe how smart this guy is though.  Those are some pretty high USMLE and shelf scores and a lot of US MD/DO students he would have beat out on in a standardized way.  This all despite the stress of constantly having his life uprooted from city to city at the last minute and being seperated from family etc.  It does seem odd though that he struggled so much getting interviews for MD schools though, I really wouldn't think the spelling of his name would be that big of a factor but who knows.. especially with all the bigotry coming out of the US lately :S

[lolabean]

Interesting read and it really is sad... I guess people need to keep in mind you're ultimately going to a 3rd world country and to a university who's main purpose is not world class research, education, or creating a medical workforce for their own country etc., but rather one that was created for the purpose of using people as cash cows, relying on a foreign country for half your education during clerkship, and with no possible resources or infrastructure to fall back on and support you post med school in the home country if things don't work out.  As such, they're ultimately not going to be very invested in you.  That and though the US is probably more merit based across applicants compared to Canada for residency selection, it clearly is not completely objective if a person of this caliber and marks had so much trouble even getting interviews.

 

I can't believe how smart this guy is though.  Those are some pretty high USMLE and shelf scores and a lot of US MD/DO students he would have beat out on in a standardized way.  This all despite the stress of constantly having his life uprooted from city to city at the last minute and being seperated from family etc.  It does seem odd though that he struggled so much getting interviews for MD schools though, I really wouldn't think the spelling of his name would be that big of a factor but who knows.. especially with all the bigotry coming out of the US lately :S

 

 

I agree. I just feel for this guy because I remember that desperate feeling of just wanting to get into medical school. I never looked thoroughly into the caribbean but I can see how it looks promising....they have literally turned it into a business, banking on peoples hopes and dreams its awful... 

[JohnGrisham]

Interesting read and it really is sad... I guess people need to keep in mind you're ultimately going to a 3rd world country and to a university who's main purpose is not world class research, education, or creating a medical workforce for their own country etc., but rather one that was created for the purpose of using people as cash cows, relying on a foreign country for half your education during clerkship, and with no possible resources or infrastructure to fall back on and support you post med school in the home country if things don't work out.  As such, they're ultimately not going to be very invested in you.  That and though the US is probably more merit based across applicants compared to Canada for residency selection, it clearly is not completely objective if a person of this caliber and marks had so much trouble even getting interviews.

 

I can't believe how smart this guy is though.  Those are some pretty high USMLE and shelf scores and a lot of US MD/DO students he would have beat out on in a standardized way.  This all despite the stress of constantly having his life uprooted from city to city at the last minute and being seperated from family etc.  It does seem odd though that he struggled so much getting interviews for MD schools though, I really wouldn't think the spelling of his name would be that big of a factor but who knows.. especially with all the bigotry coming out of the US lately 

Take it with a grain of salt too, anomalies happen, and there is more to residency matching than just scores. I know plenty of Canadian IMGs who matched in the US with low 200's on USMLES, in FM and IM, with carefully positioned elective/audition rotations. If you're rotating at places that don't historically take IMGs, you're doing it wrong. If you're going for a competitive specialty without backing up, or with solid connections(not just amazing board scores) you're doing it wrong.

 

 

As for ortho, yeah it's competitive and being from a IMG program regardless of your scores, limits the heck out of you.  Scores are apart of the piece, and its not uncommon for IMGs to have a lot of time, and/or extra time to prepare for board exams. Its obvious though the blogger is extremely intelligent, and got shafted for being an IMG.  But if they were so book smart, they would have done the research and realized the risks. Especially since they knew they wanted Ortho going into medical school. Passing up the DO acceptance really screwed them over.  They could have been an orthopod or surgeon, but they were too rushed and wanted to "save time" by going to the islands instead of waiting a year to start at the DO program. 

 

Its a shitty system, but it's on the user to know how the system works - and if you don't agree with it, not to take the risk and participate in it through means that are looked down upon. 

[JohnGrisham]

I agree. I just feel for this guy because I remember that desperate feeling of just wanting to get into medical school. I never looked thoroughly into the caribbean but I can see how it looks promising....they have literally turned it into a business, banking on peoples hopes and dreams its awful... 

None of that is new news though. It serves a purpose, and the blogger should have done their due diligence to know it better.

 

Do I feel sorry for them? Not really. They knew going into medical school they wanted Ortho, so they should have done the math to realize even in the best case scenario(which they almost qualify for with the amazing board scores, research etc BUT not with regards to proper audition rotations and scheduling), the odds still aren't great for a super competitive specialty.

 

If you want to go for primary care, and do well, you'll more often then not be fine. (As outlined by the blogger themselves, having only applied to 9 geographically limited programs and with 6 interviews - board scores alone can carry you for primary care). If you have below average board scores, you can still match primary care, if you sacrifice location and get solid audition rotations in at IMG friendly places etc. 

 

 

[older]

First of all, if it cannot be Canada or US, why Caribbean?  As the previous poster noted,  med school with main purpose of facilitating expensive degrees (even if the degree is not worthless) may not be the best environment. There are great med schools in Europe, some with med programs  geared to American students, offering  USMLE preparation and electives in US.

 

You still need to meet high entrance requirements;  it will not cost you any less than Caribbean (if not more, because cost of living will be higher);  you are still IMG when you graduate. But it is reasonable alternative.

[Alphalima]

I would advise against going to a Caribbean medical school. I know of someone that failed out and lost a lot of money. Now they are back in Canada doing another undergrad in university. I don't think carib med schools really care about you as a student enough to provide you the support you need to get your degree - but that is just from one story I have heard. 

 

Try in Canada for a few years, or even Australian, and European schools may be a better option. 

 

Goodluck! 

[Slashsev]

with all due respect to that guy, he was going into ortho....which even as an Harvard grad is hard in the US

[Wasteman]

Do not attend Caribbean medical schools. People might not say it, but Caribbean medical school (CMS) is an option for losers and slackers. I'm sorry but that's just how people in my social circle see it. If you attend a Caribbean medical school then you attend it for only one reason: Your Grades were lacking.

 

Trust me, from personal experience, I know quite a few dummies that were failing high school classes like philosophy and psychology, but didn't get accepted into ANY north american med school. And this person applied to ALL Canadian med schools and quite a bit of US med schools with NO success. 

 

If you're considering CMS you have to be willing to consider why your grades aren't good enough. Not to mention the uphill battle of returning to work as IMG. 

[ooo]

Anecdotally, I know some staff view residents not as highly once they find out about the Carribean med background. Complete prejudice as it usu comes out at the initial contact.

[B A T M A N]

Anecdotally, I know some staff view residents not as highly once they find out about the Carribean med background. Complete prejudice as it usu comes out at the initial contact.

 

Pretty justified considering the educational standards there..

[JohnGrisham]

Do not attend Caribbean medical schools. People might not say it, but Caribbean medical school (CMS) is an option for losers and slackers. I'm sorry but that's just how people in my social circle see it. If you attend a Caribbean medical school then you attend it for only one reason: Your Grades were lacking.

 

Trust me, from personal experience, I know quite a few dummies that were failing high school classes like philosophy and psychology, but didn't get accepted into ANY north american med school. And this person applied to ALL Canadian med schools and quite a bit of US med schools with NO success.

 

If you're considering CMS you have to be willing to consider why your grades aren't good enough. Not to mention the uphill battle of returning to work as IMG.

Lol, such broad and extreme statements. I personally think you're a loser and slacker for making such lazy statements. How does that feel?

 

There are plenty of people in the carribean who were competitive in Canada but just unlucky, just the same as there are many who were unlucky.

 

No need to perpetuate unnecessary hate. The ones that make it through all 4 years and match, generally had to work harder than many(not all or not most) Canadian students in med school where its p=MD.