Can I Make $300K Cad As An Oral Surgeon In Private Practice?

[Osahon]

What does the financial future holds for the Private practice Oral Surgeon?

[hodge14]

Definitely. Not just saying this, know many oral surgeons personally, all over 300K.

[walterk]

 Just need to finish in the top 5 to 10 % of your DDS class to get in( Canadian route) and  then add 4 to 6 more years of more University to specialize and your set. For the USA route need to ace the oral surgery entrance exam. ( Much much harder than anything you will do in your 4 years as a DDS student)

[Scorbix]

Uncle is a well established private practice OMFS in BC; brings in well over 500k per year.

[Osahon]

Uncle is a well established private practice OMFS in BC; brings in well over 500k per year.

cool! What about General Dentist? Do they get make 300k?

[hotlinebliiing]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif

[CPR trainer]

cool! What about General Dentist? Do they get make 300k?

You can easily make over 300K as a General Dentist as long as you own your own practice.

[walterk]

You can easily make over 300K as a General Dentist as long as you own your own practice.

Easily!   I assume you are joking! Have you looked at stats for what dentist make in Canada? ( $130k) How many newer dentists have you talked to that make that much? Most new dentists ( graduated in the last 10 years ) are having a VERY hard time making half those numbers in the large metro areas. We have 10 relatives that are dentists  and they tell me its getting harder every year. Thirty years ago it they were booking 1 to 2 years in advance. Now a patient can get in within a week or even a day! 

 

If you want to make that kind of money take computer engineering or medicine.. not general dentistry.

[CPR trainer]

Easily!   I assume you are joking! Have you looked at stats for what dentist make in Canada? ( $130k) How many newer dentists have you talked to that make that much? Most new dentists ( graduated in the last 10 years ) are having a VERY hard time making half those numbers in the large metro areas. We have 10 relatives that are dentists  and they tell me its getting harder every year. Thirty years ago it they were booking 1 to 2 years in advance. Now a patient can get in within a week or even a day! 

 

If you want to make that kind of money take computer engineering or medicine.. not general dentistry.

You need to pay closer attention to exactly what my post says!!!!!

[Pauls]

Easily!   I assume you are joking! Have you looked at stats for what dentist make in Canada? ( $130k) How many newer dentists have you talked to that make that much? Most new dentists ( graduated in the last 10 years ) are having a VERY hard time making half those numbers in the large metro areas. We have 10 relatives that are dentists  and they tell me its getting harder every year. Thirty years ago it they were booking 1 to 2 years in advance. Now a patient can get in within a week or even a day! 

 

If you want to make that kind of money take computer engineering or medicine.. not general dentistry.

 

http://roicorp.com/practices-for-sale/dental/

 

Look at the cash flows and analyze for yourself

[Clapton]

Easily!   I assume you are joking! Have you looked at stats for what dentist make in Canada? ( $130k) How many newer dentists have you talked to that make that much? Most new dentists ( graduated in the last 10 years ) are having a VERY hard time making half those numbers in the large metro areas. We have 10 relatives that are dentists  and they tell me its getting harder every year. Thirty years ago it they were booking 1 to 2 years in advance. Now a patient can get in within a week or even a day! 

 

If you want to make that kind of money take computer engineering or medicine.. not general dentistry.

 

 

Are "you" joking ? I know at least 6 new grads making more than 110k (first year in Qc)... Actually, its very rare to see someone making less than 96k as a new grad.

 

But @Osahon, you need to realize that you probably won't make more than 150k as a general dentist, except if you own a clinic.

[Pauls]

Are "you" joking ? I know at least 6 new grads making more than 110k (first year in Qc)... Actually, its very rare to see someone making less than 96k as a new grad.

 

But @Osahon, you need to realize that you won't make more than 150k as a general dentist, except if you own a clinic.

its possible to make more than 150k as an associate. I know several

[Clapton]

its possible to make more than 150k as an associate. I know several

 

 

It's possible, but I see a lot of "extreme" cases about salary. Some people claiming that a new grad is making in average 70k, some people thinking they're going to make bank (200k+) etc. It's hard to tell how much a dentist is going to make (hours,%,location,etc), but as a new grad, you can make more than 100k, but it's not realist to think you are going to make 180k+ either... But again... It's highly variable. 

[Dr.Watson]

It's possible, but I see a lot of "extreme" cases about salary. Some people claiming that a new grad is making in average 70k, some people thinking they're going to make bank (200k+) etc. It's hard to tell how much a dentist is going to make (hours,%,location,etc), but as a new grad, you can make more than 100k, but it's not realist to think you are going to make 180k+ either... But again... It's highly variable. 

 

 I know its been spoken about, but due to the variance in reporting I still feel justified in asking now in this thread... Can anyone report on actual take home pay for an average or starting GP? When you read 150k, is that net, and then you have overhead and taxes coming off? I'd appreciate some insight. 

[Ostracized]

 I know its been spoken about, but due to the variance in reporting I still feel justified in asking now in this thread... Can anyone report on actual take home pay for an average or starting GP? When you read 150k, is that net, and then you have overhead and taxes coming off? I'd appreciate some insight. 

 

Even if you knew the average income of dentists in Canada - would that really be useful to you?  If I told you the average weight of dentists in Canada, would you be able to guess how much I weigh?

 

There's too much variability.

 

When people talk about income, they usually mean after expenses but before taxes.

[Clapton]

 I know its been spoken about, but due to the variance in reporting I still feel justified in asking now in this thread... Can anyone report on actual take home pay for an average or starting GP? When you read 150k, is that net, and then you have overhead and taxes coming off? I'd appreciate some insight. 

 

 

From the few dentists I know (I'm from Quebec), as a new grad, you could make anywhere from 90k to 130k, after expenses but before taxes. But as Ostracized said, there is a lot of variance (hours,%,location). It's actually really hard to give an average. If some new grads could chime in, that would be appreciated. My numbers could be wrong.

[Dr.Watson]

Even if you knew the average income of dentists in Canada - would that really be useful to you?  If I told you the average weight of dentists in Canada, would you be able to guess how much I weigh?

 

There's too much variability.

 

When people talk about income, they usually mean after expenses but before taxes.

 

Yes it would be useful to me because as someone who is starting first year in a few months, I like having at least a rough idea of what I can expect in my future. I already addressed the variability issue and was primarily interested in knowing whether its gross or net income that people are talking about/ reporting. 

 

Thanks for your input. 

[Nachoolibre]

I can add some perspectives/input into this seeing that I have family in the field:

 

My brother and 3 of my cousins graduated from UofT (Class of 03, 06, 07) and made about ~110k as associates in the GTA. They worked ~35 hours a week but neither of them liked working for someone and/or being general dentists so they specialized or went into management. Two of them moved to the States and are practicing ortho and management. Two of them stayed here and are in ortho and oral surgery. The one in oral surgery is a Faculty member at UofT and owns a private practice, raking in well over a million (works 5 days). The one in ortho practices in the Niagara area and racks in about 800K (works 4 days). In the states, the one in ortho is making over a million (works 3 days) and the one in management owns ~14 practices (he hasn't told me what he makes but I'm assuming he makes the most).

 

One of my family friends went to UWO (Class of 09) and she settled with GD in the London area. She rakes in 190k working 4 days a week as an associate. It's definitely highly variable and again this is a very small sample but this should give a different perspective based on different geographical locations. 

[Dr.Watson]

This topic is done to death, but I fully understand why it keeps getting asked and why it's so frustrating to not get a straight answer.

 

We're not exaggerating when we talk about how variable it is. I worked in staffing before and have never seen such a variable income career. Mostly it depends on how busy you are, so if you are working 6 days a week buy don't have a packed schedule, you will make half of what I make when I run a packed day with 2 chairs fully booked and i'm bouncing back and forth between 2 patients with not even enough down time to pee.

 

Then there's the fact that the number of hours dentists work is highly variable. I'm dropping down to 3 days a week while some former classmates are still working 6.

 

Associate incomes are usually stated as gross because we don't really have many business expenses, so even if they are reported as net, it won't make much of a difference.

 

Owner incomes are very difficult to report as net because owners pay themselves often quite small salaries and keep the rest of their profits inside the corporation, so it's hard to find accurate reporting on net income. Meanwhile, if you familiarize yourself with the industry, gross numbers will start meaning a lot more to you.

 

Even as an associate, when talking with other dentists we never talk net, we talk about production. I can say "last year I billed $XYZ" and a dentist will easily understand how much I made.

 

As for averages, well they don't reveal anything, but I have seen consistent high 100s among relatively new grads working busy 40ish hour work weeks, based on reports only from a handful of former classmates.

That is the closest I can offer to a very limited sample average based on very specific criteria.

 

 

Thank you very much for a thoughtful and thorough answer. You've always got great and informative posts, I've noticed  

[Dr.Watson]

I can add some perspectives/input into this seeing that I have family in the field:

 

My brother and 3 of my cousins graduated from UofT (Class of 03, 06, 07) and made about ~110k as associates in the GTA. They worked ~35 hours a week but neither of them liked working for someone and/or being general dentists so they specialized or went into management. Two of them moved to the States and are practicing ortho and management. Two of them stayed here and are in ortho and oral surgery. The one in oral surgery is a Faculty member at UofT and owns a private practice, raking in well over a million (works 5 days). The one in ortho practices in the Niagara area and racks in about 800K (works 4 days). In the states, the one in ortho is making over a million (works 3 days) and the one in management owns ~14 practices (he hasn't told me what he makes but I'm assuming he makes the most).

 

One of my family friends went to UWO (Class of 09) and she settled with GD in the London area. She rakes in 190k working 4 days a week as an associate. It's definitely highly variable and again this is a very small sample but this should give a different perspective based on different geographical locations. 

Wow! Those are some amazing (and highly variable) numbers. Thanks for your input too!

[Osahon]

I can add some perspectives/input into this seeing that I have family in the field:

 

My brother and 3 of my cousins graduated from UofT (Class of 03, 06, 07) and made about ~110k as associates in the GTA. They worked ~35 hours a week but neither of them liked working for someone and/or being general dentists so they specialized or went into management. Two of them moved to the States and are practicing ortho and management. Two of them stayed here and are in ortho and oral surgery. The one in oral surgery is a Faculty member at UofT and owns a private practice, raking in well over a million (works 5 days). The one in ortho practices in the Niagara area and racks in about 800K (works 4 days). In the states, the one in ortho is making over a million (works 3 days) and the one in management owns ~14 practices (he hasn't told me what he makes but I'm assuming he makes the most).

 

One of my family friends went to UWO (Class of 09) and she settled with GD in the London area. She rakes in 190k working 4 days a week as an associate. It's definitely highly variable and again this is a very small sample but this should give a different perspective based on different geographical locations.

thank you for this post! So you mean I can combine a Faculty Member position and Private practice and still be making over 500k? Very cooool

[koft]

Billing is a useless number, I can say I bill X, but if that billing does not get collected, you don't get paid.  

 

Those reported number are based on taxable income, if the owner sheltered majority of the retained earnings inside a corporation, it does not get reported.  Even an associate can be incorporated thus makes those numbers out there meaningless.  Do you know why the average income is around 130k out there.  It is for tax purposes, if you believe in RRSP, the max income you should draw to yourself is around 144k to maximize each year room, then to contribute to knock it off at the 2nd highest tier tax bracket.   But the gamble is that you have to convince yourself to not draw as much during the retirement years to minimize the tax when you withdraw your RRSP.

 

I think i said numerous times, you will be comfortable, but you will never be the top 0.1%.

[PréDentaire]

 

I think i said numerous times, you will be comfortable, but you will never be the top 0.1%.

 

must be ways to play around it eh?

[koft]

must be ways to play around it eh?

 

Haha, This article is from financial post using data from 2010

 

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/heres-what-the-wealthiest-of-the-wealthy-in-canada-earn-and-pay-in-taxes

 

Oh well, it wouldn't be hard to be the top 1%, but the Top 0.1% is going to be quite difficult.

 

Play around it?  It is about the collected and your overhead.  Unless you are an owner with a bunch of associates working for you.

[member_225]

You'll be in the top 1% of earners in Canada most likely but if you want to be in the top 0.1%, you better start thinking outside of any medical career.....