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Failed Year Plus Huge Upward Trend


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Hi.

I'm a Canadian student who has a somewhat common and somewhat unique problem. I graduated in 2012 and got accepted into UBC engineering. I failed about half the courses in first semester and then all of the courses second semester; I just gave up entirely and it was too late to withdraw.

 

Needless to say I was sent on the Dean's vacation and since then I've worked in the trades, went and half-assed a few semesters of engineering related courses at a local college while we working here and there.

 

Keeping it short, I have finally at long last realized that I am not passionate about engineering, but LOVE working with people, studying in general but particularly biological anatomy, mostly human. I also love genetics and linguistics but thats an aside.

 

I want to be a doctor. It fits the bill for every category of interest inasmuch as a paid job can.

 

So now I'm 21, probably have a cumulative GPA across all post secondary institutions of God knows what, probably 1.5, and I now will find some way into med school.

As far as I can see I have two things going for me: 1. I haven't taken any biology; its obvious to date that I've been pursuing engineering passionlessly. 2. I have the ability to get all As in premed. Just assume this to be true.

Given that info, and that prospect of med schools entertaining a written letter explaining my mediocre GPA(I can maybe raise it to 3ish by the end of premed?) And also the evident hugely upward trend in my GPA, it seems fathomable enough to shoot for MD.

 

What do you think?

 

TL;DR: I have effectively 0 GPA but am banking on a huge upward trend and superb mcat to win the hearts of med schools.

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Obviously years of As and an excellent MCAT are not easily achieved, but if you do manage to do this there are are plenty of schools that won't care about your tumultuous start to undergrad. You'd be as competitive as anyone there, although OOP (I'm not from BC so I can't comment on your chances there).

 

I'm sure you're going to have a lot of people warning you that you don't just waltz in and get perfect grades because you're trying now. It's a lot tougher than that, even for very bright people. But yes, you will be competitive at multiple schools if you can do all of the things you think you can do, but have never done. That's as encouraging an answer as I can give :)

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Honestly, there are too many hypotheticals for anyone to give you good advice on where/when/how to apply. You've already identified the biggest problems with your application and what you have to do over the next few years to give yourself a fighting chance.

 

You know your ability better than anyone on here and you are stating you believe you are capable of getting years of As and a phenomenal MCAT score. That's great! The best thing you can do right now is focus on your studies and come back after you have evidence of your MCAT performance and strong upwards trend. Don't forget to work on your ECs during that time as well as those will strengthen your application too. Once you have some real numbers to work with come on back and many folks here will be happy to give you some solid advice on your applications - without real tangible numbers the hypothetical advice really just isn't going to be very useful. Also, some of the application requirements may change for different schools between now and the time you apply, so any information you get today probably won't be the same in 4 years when you finish your courses. 

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Thanks everyone for the responses. I talked with a UBC med school advisor today and she said that I can have my worst 30 credits omitted.

That's great, the problem is, even with those 30 fail credits from UBC removed, I have an additional 42 credits with those having a cGPA of 1.5.

 

So I need to get 4.0 in 180 more credits to bring me up to the 3.6(75%) that UBC currently requires for an interview.

 

Boy have I cut out my work for me.

 

The other option it seems is the schools that take your two best years, that would clearly be a LOT easier.

 

What do you guys think?

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Thanks everyone for the responses. I talked with a UBC med school advisor today and she said that I can have my worst 30 credits omitted.

That's great, the problem is, even with those 30 fail credits from UBC removed, I have an additional 42 credits with those having a cGPA of 1.5.

 

So I need to get 4.0 in 180 more credits to bring me up to the 3.6(75%) that UBC currently requires for an interview.

 

Boy have I cut out my work for me.

 

The other option it seems is the schools that take your two best years, that would clearly be a LOT easier.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

There is no 'easy' way and given that you would be OOP for both 'best 2 years' schools I would hesitate to say that going the best 2 years route would be 'way easier'. Sorry to be a downer, but I think it's important that you have a realistic view of this path. 

 

First, there aren't a lot of schools that take only your best 2 years and you would be OOP for both so you can expect to need a significantly higher GPA than the minimum cutoff to get an interview. I think Queens and UWO are it and Queens will still calculate a cGPA for you as well. UWO requires a minimum 3.7 for non-SWOMEN applicants and their OOP GPA is likely even higher then that. U of C is sometimes mis-labelled as a best 2 year school but that's not true, you only get to drop your lowest year except in cases where applicants apply the 10 year exclusion clause.

 

Second, remember that the minimum GPA cutoffs are just that - a minimum. Each year many people with higher than minimum GPAs do not receive interviews, so while reaching the cutoffs is vital (your file won't be reviewed if you don't reach them), it is not an assured pathway to interview either. There is a reason that the average Canadian student applies something like 2.7 times before being accepted - heck, we have people on this forum that have applied 4-5 times before getting in and every single time they met or exceeded the various cutoffs. This is where the PM101 community is super helpful in providing guidance on how to strengthen an application. Is it theoretically possible to get admitted with a GPA at or around the cutoff point? Yes, and people have certainly done it, but it usually means that they are exceptional in other areas of their application, so that is something important to keep in mind as you move forward in this process. 

 

Now, that being said, there is some good news. You can apply to medical school as many times as you want (and can afford), so there is nothing to stop you from applying to the 'best 2 years' schools as soon as you have 2 solid years under your belt while continuing in your studies to meet the requirements of other schools. If you get in to one of the 2 best years schools then that is awesome, and if you don't at least you're still working towards the goal. Be prepared to spend 4-5 years putting your boots to the ground in full-time undergrad classes and if you get in to another school earlier that's a bonus. 

 

Right now I wouldn't bother thinking too much about which schools will be easiest to apply to or how to apply in 4 years, because cutoffs and application processes change on an almost yearly basis. The only policies you need to be concerned about right now is whether or not the schools you are hoping to apply to will consider summer courses in your GPA calculation because that will dictate how you space out your courses over the next 4-5 years. Focus your energy on doing well in your classes and building a good EC profile. This process isn't going to be a sprint, it will be a marathon and there really is no easy way around that. 

 

If you are absolutely intent on attending medical school as quickly as possible and you are willing to take a huge gamble then you could look at Caribbean schools which will likely be more forgiving of your engineering GPA, but that route is not without large risk and sacrifice.

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There is no 'easy' way and given that you would be OOP for both 'best 2 years' schools I would hesitate to say that going the best 2 years route would be 'way easier'. Sorry to be a downer, but I think it's important that you have a realistic view of this path. 

 

First, there aren't a lot of schools that take only your best 2 years and you would be OOP for both so you can expect to need a significantly higher GPA than the minimum cutoff to get an interview. I think Queens and UWO are it and Queens will still calculate a cGPA for you as well. UWO requires a minimum 3.7 for non-SWOMEN applicants and their OOP GPA is likely even higher then that. U of C is sometimes mis-labelled as a best 2 year school but that's not true, you only get to drop your lowest year except in cases where applicants apply the 10 year exclusion clause.

 

Second, remember that the minimum GPA cutoffs are just that - a minimum. Each year many people with higher than minimum GPAs do not receive interviews, so while reaching the cutoffs is vital (your file won't be reviewed if you don't reach them), it is not an assured pathway to interview either. There is a reason that the average Canadian student applies something like 2.7 times before being accepted - heck, we have people on this forum that have applied 4-5 times before getting in and every single time they met or exceeded the various cutoffs. This is where the PM101 community is super helpful in providing guidance on how to strengthen an application. Is it theoretically possible to get admitted with a GPA at or around the cutoff point? Yes, and people have certainly done it, but it usually means that they are exceptional in other areas of their application, so that is something important to keep in mind as you move forward in this process. 

 

Now, that being said, there is some good news. You can apply to medical school as many times as you want (and can afford), so there is nothing to stop you from applying to the 'best 2 years' schools as soon as you have 2 solid years under your belt while continuing in your studies to meet the requirements of other schools. If you get in to one of the 2 best years schools then that is awesome, and if you don't at least you're still working towards the goal. Be prepared to spend 4-5 years putting your boots to the ground in full-time undergrad classes and if you get in to another school earlier that's a bonus. 

 

Right now I wouldn't bother thinking too much about which schools will be easiest to apply to or how to apply in 4 years, because cutoffs and application processes change on an almost yearly basis. The only policies you need to be concerned about right now is whether or not the schools you are hoping to apply to will consider summer courses in your GPA calculation because that will dictate how you space out your courses over the next 4-5 years. Focus your energy on doing well in your classes and building a good EC profile. This process isn't going to be a sprint, it will be a marathon and there really is no easy way around that. 

 

If you are absolutely intent on attending medical school as quickly as possible and you are willing to take a huge gamble then you could look at Caribbean schools which will likely be more forgiving of your engineering GPA, but that route is not without large risk and sacrifice.

 

 

There's quite a bit of misinformation going on here.

 

For starters, based on the information the OP provided, it's in fact much easier to get a 4.0 over two years (60 credits) then it is to get a 4.0 over 6 years (180 credits).  UBC should not even be on the OPs radar at this point.  Needing six additional years of undergraduate just to be considered, not competitive, is a waste of his time. 

 

There's also no OOP applicants for Queen's or Western.  Western's SWOMEN are applicants from very specific areas in southwestern Ontario, everyone else is considered equally.  Therefore, OP needs a 3.7 GPA over the last two years [at the moment] to meet Western's GPA cut-offs.  Queen's considers everyone in Canada equally, and they do two separate calculations for GPA.  They first calculate your cGPA and if you don't meet the cut-offs, they'll calculate your best 2 years GPA.  If you meet the cut-off for best two years, then you'll move onto the next step of the process.  

 

Western's GPA cut-off is not a traditional minimum, anyone who meets those GPA and MCAT cutoffs are guaranteed an interview.  Queen's is a black box, but it seems to be fairly well supported that if you meet their GPA cutoffs you'll move on and it won't be considered again.  Of course, we don't know for sure, but plenty of people have been admitted with low cGPAs (~3.0) and minimal 2yGPAs (~3.7).  GPA is one part of the application to these schools and there is absolutely no reason why the OP can't overcome this barrier and build a strong application in the next few years.  Of course it's competitive and it may take multiple cycles, but he'll be at no more of a disadvantage then anyone else.  

 

Other schools are worth considering if he has ties to the maritimes (Dalhousie) or rural areas (NOSM; assuming he gets his cGPA above 3.0), there's also schools that look at the last three years (Ottawa).  UofC may become an option if his course work is starting to expire (i.e. over ten years old), which certainly seems to be a possibility given OPs story.  There's also absolutely no reason it should take half a decade to get a degree in biology if he's carrying a full course load every semester.

 

Recommending the Caribbean? No...

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I didn't recommend the Caribbean, just to be clear. I said it was an enormous gamble.

 

As for Ontario, you're absolutely right, I did indeed refer to OOP and it does appear those do not exist - my bad!

 

I also never advised OP to not apply to the best 2 years schools... I encouraged OP to apply to those schools while also continuing to work towards increasing his eligibility for other schools, but you are right that I mistakenly said they would need a higher OOP GPA and that does not appear to be correct. Thank you for filling in extra info about these Ontario schools! The more info the OP has the better they can plan.

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I didn't recommend the Caribbean, just to be clear. I said it was an enormous gamble.

 

As for Ontario, you're absolutely right, I did indeed refer to OOP and it does appear those do not exist - my bad!

 

I also never advised OP to not apply to the best 2 years schools... I encouraged OP to apply to those schools while also continuing to work towards increasing his eligibility for other schools, but you are right that I mistakenly said they would need a higher OOP GPA and that does not appear to be correct. Thank you for filling in extra info about these Ontario schools! The more info the OP has the better they can plan.

 

 

No worries!  You're a medical student, so I was pretty confident that you didn't think the Caribbean was a good idea, but it definitely needs to be reemphasized.  I know way to many people that are going to seriously regret that decision in a few years. 

 

My mistake if my response sounded jaded, and I skipped some details in your reply.  I was typing quickly, so it wasn't the overall intent.  Glad so many people are supporting OP! :)

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Thanks guys!

 

I'm currently attending langara about to begin the one year engineering transfer program that will give me placement into second year engineering at UBC.

 

I also just applied back to general science at langara and got in. I'm thinking I should take general, and take biology, microbiology, linguistics; things I'll get the highest GPA in.

 

Does that route sound best?

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Thanks guys!

 

I'm currently attending langara about to begin the one year engineering transfer program that will give me placement into second year engineering at UBC.

 

I also just applied back to general science at langara and got in. I'm thinking I should take general, and take biology, microbiology, linguistics; things I'll get the highest GPA in.

 

Does that route sound best?

You should take whatever will get the highest GPA, based on your strengths, and to be perfectly honest you should also be doing something that will lead you into another career you might enjoy, because there are no guarantees here, ever. 

 

For example, Western uses a 3.7 2 year GPA cutoff as mentioned, but they require a ~97th percentile score on the reading comprehension section of the MCAT, which is not something you be counting on with no 'back-up'

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Thanks guys!

 

I'm currently attending langara about to begin the one year engineering transfer program that will give me placement into second year engineering at UBC.

 

I also just applied back to general science at langara and got in. I'm thinking I should take general, and take biology, microbiology, linguistics; things I'll get the highest GPA in.

 

Does that route sound best?

 

Your won't get straight A's in engineering at ubc. 

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Thanks.

 

I spoke again with some advisors at my school and I think I have my plan.

 

I will take easier courses, such as all biology related courses and linguistics, psychology, etc for two years, if I'm brave I will take the prerequisite courses for most med schools; chemistry courses etc.

Because some Ontario schools have no prerequisites (I think Queens) I will make the GPA cut if I'm diligent. In second year from now if I'm brave I'll take the traditional prerequisites.

Additionally I'll be studying for the mcat throughout all this time course load permitting.

Because some schools don't count summer semesters in GPA, I'll use summer to study for the mcat as well.

 

In the meantime here I will find out how to shadow a local MD if possible or something for ECs.

 

I feel like my application will be lopsided as I just described it.

 

Do I need to work on my piano skills and become a concert pianist?

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Thanks.

I spoke again with some advisors at my school and I think I have my plan.

I will take easier courses, such as all biology related courses and linguistics, psychology, etc for two years, if I'm brave I will take the prerequisite courses for most med schools; chemistry courses etc.

Because some Ontario schools have no prerequisites (I think Queens) I will make the GPA cut if I'm diligent. In second year from now if I'm brave I'll take the traditional prerequisites.

Additionally I'll be studying for the mcat throughout all this time course load permitting.

Because some schools don't count summer semesters in GPA, I'll use summer to study for the mcat as well.

In the meantime here I will find out how to shadow a local MD if possible or something for ECs.

I feel like my application will be lopsided as I just described it.

Do I need to work on my piano skills and become a concert pianist?

Take the prerequisites. You are taking courses anyway, might as well maximize all your chances

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